World Building

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

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Bebi Hatchiyack
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Re: World Building

Post by Bebi Hatchiyack » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:38 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:I think there were rooms for novelty instead of "rehashing" stuff from the past with the Cyborg/Android/Cell Arc being a Red Ribbon arc part.2.
I disagree with this idea personally. While the Cell Arc is definitely linked to the RRA arc via its lore, the actual arc itself has very little in common with it. It isn't a world tour adventure where you battle a private army, you're fighting two, sometimes three Androids. While there is a little bit of globe-trotting, the Dragon Balls aren't featured at all, nor do we really meet any new side characters along the way.
While I half agree with the Cell Saga is a continuation of the Red Ribbon Saga through the scheme of Gero so we can say in a way that is a Red Ribbon Part.2 a la Jojo's Bizarre Adventure with the whole Dio Brando stuff if I were to take that as an example.
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KBABZ
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Re: World Building

Post by KBABZ » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:48 pm

Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:
KBABZ wrote:
Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:I think there were rooms for novelty instead of "rehashing" stuff from the past with the Cyborg/Android/Cell Arc being a Red Ribbon arc part.2.
I disagree with this idea personally. While the Cell Arc is definitely linked to the RRA arc via its lore, the actual arc itself has very little in common with it. It isn't a world tour adventure where you battle a private army, you're fighting two, sometimes three Androids. While there is a little bit of globe-trotting, the Dragon Balls aren't featured at all, nor do we really meet any new side characters along the way.
While I half agree with the Cell Saga is a continuation of the Red Ribbon Saga through the scheme of Gero so we can say in a way that is a Red Ribbon Part.2 a la Jojo's Bizarre Adventure with the whole Dio Brando stuff if I were to take that as an example.
Well yes of course, but from a thematic and structural level they have next to nothing in common. It isn't quite the same as, say, Saiyan to Frieza.

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Bebi Hatchiyack
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Re: World Building

Post by Bebi Hatchiyack » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:56 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:
KBABZ wrote: I disagree with this idea personally. While the Cell Arc is definitely linked to the RRA arc via its lore, the actual arc itself has very little in common with it. It isn't a world tour adventure where you battle a private army, you're fighting two, sometimes three Androids. While there is a little bit of globe-trotting, the Dragon Balls aren't featured at all, nor do we really meet any new side characters along the way.
While I half agree with the Cell Saga is a continuation of the Red Ribbon Saga through the scheme of Gero so we can say in a way that is a Red Ribbon Part.2 a la Jojo's Bizarre Adventure with the whole Dio Brando stuff if I were to take that as an example.
Well yes of course, but from a thematic and structural level they have next to nothing in common. It isn't quite the same as, say, Saiyan to Frieza.
And I agree with you on that part. :thumbup:

Well for adding to the topic I think the whole Makai with the Makaioshin and MaKaio is a huge MISS for me. Speaking of world building adding them and why not Godly being created as antagonist for God of Destruction would have been cool. I think also I wouldn't mind side story for expand character story like Yamcha and Tenshinhan.
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KBABZ
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Re: World Building

Post by KBABZ » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:04 pm

Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:I think also I wouldn't mind side story for expand character story like Yamcha and Tenshinhan.
I remember discussing with somebody (ABED I think?) that it'd be cool to have a Dragon Ball equivalent to Pokémon Chronicles in OVA format, where you have a collection of 40 minute pictures that tell an interesting facet of the franchise, in the same vein as the Bardock and Trunks specials from back in the day. Stuff like Master Roshi's younger years, what Yamcha and Puar got up to, maybe even a "Bardock Special" but this one on Grandpa Gohan leading up to him discovering Goku!

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Re: World Building

Post by ABED » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:56 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:I think also I wouldn't mind side story for expand character story like Yamcha and Tenshinhan.
I remember discussing with somebody (ABED I think?) that it'd be cool to have a Dragon Ball equivalent to Pokémon Chronicles in OVA format, where you have a collection of 40 minute pictures that tell an interesting facet of the franchise, in the same vein as the Bardock and Trunks specials from back in the day. Stuff like Master Roshi's younger years, what Yamcha and Puar got up to, maybe even a "Bardock Special" but this one on Grandpa Gohan leading up to him discovering Goku!
That wasn't me. I haven't played/watched Pokémon in literally 20 years.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: World Building

Post by KBABZ » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:33 pm

ABED wrote:
KBABZ wrote:
Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:I think also I wouldn't mind side story for expand character story like Yamcha and Tenshinhan.
I remember discussing with somebody (ABED I think?) that it'd be cool to have a Dragon Ball equivalent to Pokémon Chronicles in OVA format, where you have a collection of 40 minute pictures that tell an interesting facet of the franchise, in the same vein as the Bardock and Trunks specials from back in the day. Stuff like Master Roshi's younger years, what Yamcha and Puar got up to, maybe even a "Bardock Special" but this one on Grandpa Gohan leading up to him discovering Goku!
That wasn't me. I haven't played/watched Pokémon in literally 20 years.
Oops, sorry! Still, cool idea though in my opinion.

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SaiyanGod117
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Re: World Building

Post by SaiyanGod117 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:12 pm

ABED wrote:
as many professional writers believe worldbuilding is essential to a story
For example?
I know this a late reply, but I had a lot to get done lately.

Anyways, you won't find a statement of a writer acknowledging " I high worldbuilding to high esteem" unless you luckily come across an interview or excerpt of them saying that, but you can deduce ones do in the way they write a story or find an oblique statement that infers it rather than out states it. So nonetheless the point still stands, worldbuilding is critical to the story regardless of how much you try to underplay its role.

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Re: World Building

Post by ABED » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:51 am

First, you mean imply, not infer. And second, your statement isn't helpful. Who are these authors? Even if you have to infer that's what they mean, surely you can give examples.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
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SaiyanGod117
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Re: World Building

Post by SaiyanGod117 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:50 am

ABED wrote:First, you mean imply, not infer.
Lol, no I mean to infer.
Imply and infer are opposites, like a throw and a catch. To imply is to hint at something, but to infer is to make an educated guess. The speaker does the implying, and the listener does the inferring. It’s funny how the first thing you try to do is correct me on grammar and fail when you have several grammatical as well as punctuation mistakes in this very thread.
And second, your statement isn't helpful.
No offense, but nothing ever is to you, so I’m starting to think this is a “you” problem rather than a “me” problem
Who are these authors? Even if you have to infer that's what they mean, surely you can give examples.
I’m not going to waste my day digging through interviews or videos for such specific quotes, that I may or may not find, but I can give you names of authors I read who are professional and award-winning no less. As such these authors use worldbuilding as a hallmark of their writing, honestly it shouldn’t be evident enough it’s held in high esteem if it's tightly woven into numerous stories. Like that’s common sense.

George R. R. Martin, Liu Cixin (The Three-Body Problem), N. K. Jemisin (The Fifth Season), Brian K. Vaughan (Saga), Patrick Rothfuss (Name of the Wind)

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ABED
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Re: World Building

Post by ABED » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:05 am

Yes, George RR Martin does some great worldbuilding, but it comes out of character and plot. He doesn't put the cart before the horse. His stories are complex and require intricately detailed worlds with different cultures and politics and religion. However, he never loses sight of the story and that execution is paramount. People wouldn't give a shit about the different religions or what bastards are called in the different kingdoms if they didn't care about the plots and motives that arise from those bits of lore. DB is NOT THAT. It's a simple world about martial artists constantly striving to get better. Last point on Martin, he doesn't create more of the world than he needs to make the story work.
but you can deduce ones do in the way they write a story or find an oblique statement that infers it rather than out states it.
The statement doesn't do the inferring. I was correct. I wasn't insulting you, just pointing out this error. I never claimed to be great at grammar, but this one bugs me, much like when people write "would of" instead of "would've". I didn't mean it to come off as testy, just pointing out what I consider an egregious error.

Your statement wasn't helpful because you said lots of authors say worldbuilding is important and hold it to high esteem and is critical then doubled down on that statement when I asked a perfectly sensible question. Naturally my follow up was to ask for an example and you didn't give one. Saying they are there if you look for them wasn't helpful. You basically said, "trust me, they're there." I wasn't asking a loaded question or one you would have to go out of your way in order to answer. Thank you in your follow up for giving a few specific examples. This is getting contentious for some reason and it really shouldn't.

Just taking your own statements, the issue you have is not the lack of worldbuilding, it's the execution of the story.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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Re: World Building

Post by ZodaEX » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:20 am

SaiyanGod117 wrote:
ABED wrote:First, you mean imply, not infer.
Lol, no I mean to infer.
Imply and infer are opposites, like a throw and a catch. To imply is to hint at something, but to infer is to make an educated guess. The speaker does the implying, and the listener does the inferring. It’s funny how the first thing you try to do is correct me on grammar and fail when you have several grammatical as well as punctuation mistakes in this very thread.
And second, your statement isn't helpful.
No offense, but nothing ever is to you, so I’m starting to think this is a “you” problem rather than a “me” problem
Who are these authors? Even if you have to infer that's what they mean, surely you can give examples.
I’m not going to waste my day digging through interviews or videos for such specific quotes, that I may or may not find, but I can give you names of authors I read who are professional and award-winning no less. As such these authors use worldbuilding as a hallmark of their writing, honestly it shouldn’t be evident enough it’s held in high esteem if it's tightly woven into numerous stories. Like that’s common sense.

George R. R. Martin, Liu Cixin (The Three-Body Problem), N. K. Jemisin (The Fifth Season), Brian K. Vaughan (Saga), Patrick Rothfuss (Name of the Wind)
Brilliantly worded on everything and I whole wholeheartedly agree. :thumbup:

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