While I half agree with the Cell Saga is a continuation of the Red Ribbon Saga through the scheme of Gero so we can say in a way that is a Red Ribbon Part.2 a la Jojo's Bizarre Adventure with the whole Dio Brando stuff if I were to take that as an example.KBABZ wrote:I disagree with this idea personally. While the Cell Arc is definitely linked to the RRA arc via its lore, the actual arc itself has very little in common with it. It isn't a world tour adventure where you battle a private army, you're fighting two, sometimes three Androids. While there is a little bit of globe-trotting, the Dragon Balls aren't featured at all, nor do we really meet any new side characters along the way.Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:I think there were rooms for novelty instead of "rehashing" stuff from the past with the Cyborg/Android/Cell Arc being a Red Ribbon arc part.2.
World Building
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Re: World Building
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Re: World Building
Well yes of course, but from a thematic and structural level they have next to nothing in common. It isn't quite the same as, say, Saiyan to Frieza.Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:While I half agree with the Cell Saga is a continuation of the Red Ribbon Saga through the scheme of Gero so we can say in a way that is a Red Ribbon Part.2 a la Jojo's Bizarre Adventure with the whole Dio Brando stuff if I were to take that as an example.KBABZ wrote:I disagree with this idea personally. While the Cell Arc is definitely linked to the RRA arc via its lore, the actual arc itself has very little in common with it. It isn't a world tour adventure where you battle a private army, you're fighting two, sometimes three Androids. While there is a little bit of globe-trotting, the Dragon Balls aren't featured at all, nor do we really meet any new side characters along the way.Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:I think there were rooms for novelty instead of "rehashing" stuff from the past with the Cyborg/Android/Cell Arc being a Red Ribbon arc part.2.
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Re: World Building
And I agree with you on that part.KBABZ wrote:Well yes of course, but from a thematic and structural level they have next to nothing in common. It isn't quite the same as, say, Saiyan to Frieza.Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:While I half agree with the Cell Saga is a continuation of the Red Ribbon Saga through the scheme of Gero so we can say in a way that is a Red Ribbon Part.2 a la Jojo's Bizarre Adventure with the whole Dio Brando stuff if I were to take that as an example.KBABZ wrote: I disagree with this idea personally. While the Cell Arc is definitely linked to the RRA arc via its lore, the actual arc itself has very little in common with it. It isn't a world tour adventure where you battle a private army, you're fighting two, sometimes three Androids. While there is a little bit of globe-trotting, the Dragon Balls aren't featured at all, nor do we really meet any new side characters along the way.
Well for adding to the topic I think the whole Makai with the Makaioshin and MaKaio is a huge MISS for me. Speaking of world building adding them and why not Godly being created as antagonist for God of Destruction would have been cool. I think also I wouldn't mind side story for expand character story like Yamcha and Tenshinhan.
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Re: World Building
I remember discussing with somebody (ABED I think?) that it'd be cool to have a Dragon Ball equivalent to Pokémon Chronicles in OVA format, where you have a collection of 40 minute pictures that tell an interesting facet of the franchise, in the same vein as the Bardock and Trunks specials from back in the day. Stuff like Master Roshi's younger years, what Yamcha and Puar got up to, maybe even a "Bardock Special" but this one on Grandpa Gohan leading up to him discovering Goku!Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:I think also I wouldn't mind side story for expand character story like Yamcha and Tenshinhan.
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Re: World Building
That wasn't me. I haven't played/watched Pokémon in literally 20 years.KBABZ wrote:I remember discussing with somebody (ABED I think?) that it'd be cool to have a Dragon Ball equivalent to Pokémon Chronicles in OVA format, where you have a collection of 40 minute pictures that tell an interesting facet of the franchise, in the same vein as the Bardock and Trunks specials from back in the day. Stuff like Master Roshi's younger years, what Yamcha and Puar got up to, maybe even a "Bardock Special" but this one on Grandpa Gohan leading up to him discovering Goku!Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:I think also I wouldn't mind side story for expand character story like Yamcha and Tenshinhan.
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Re: World Building
Oops, sorry! Still, cool idea though in my opinion.ABED wrote:That wasn't me. I haven't played/watched Pokémon in literally 20 years.KBABZ wrote:I remember discussing with somebody (ABED I think?) that it'd be cool to have a Dragon Ball equivalent to Pokémon Chronicles in OVA format, where you have a collection of 40 minute pictures that tell an interesting facet of the franchise, in the same vein as the Bardock and Trunks specials from back in the day. Stuff like Master Roshi's younger years, what Yamcha and Puar got up to, maybe even a "Bardock Special" but this one on Grandpa Gohan leading up to him discovering Goku!Bebi Hatchiyack wrote:I think also I wouldn't mind side story for expand character story like Yamcha and Tenshinhan.
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Re: World Building
I know this a late reply, but I had a lot to get done lately.ABED wrote:For example?as many professional writers believe worldbuilding is essential to a story
Anyways, you won't find a statement of a writer acknowledging " I high worldbuilding to high esteem" unless you luckily come across an interview or excerpt of them saying that, but you can deduce ones do in the way they write a story or find an oblique statement that infers it rather than out states it. So nonetheless the point still stands, worldbuilding is critical to the story regardless of how much you try to underplay its role.
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Re: World Building
First, you mean imply, not infer. And second, your statement isn't helpful. Who are these authors? Even if you have to infer that's what they mean, surely you can give examples.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
- SaiyanGod117
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Re: World Building
Lol, no I mean to infer.ABED wrote:First, you mean imply, not infer.
Imply and infer are opposites, like a throw and a catch. To imply is to hint at something, but to infer is to make an educated guess. The speaker does the implying, and the listener does the inferring. It’s funny how the first thing you try to do is correct me on grammar and fail when you have several grammatical as well as punctuation mistakes in this very thread.
No offense, but nothing ever is to you, so I’m starting to think this is a “you” problem rather than a “me” problemAnd second, your statement isn't helpful.
I’m not going to waste my day digging through interviews or videos for such specific quotes, that I may or may not find, but I can give you names of authors I read who are professional and award-winning no less. As such these authors use worldbuilding as a hallmark of their writing, honestly it shouldn’t be evident enough it’s held in high esteem if it's tightly woven into numerous stories. Like that’s common sense.Who are these authors? Even if you have to infer that's what they mean, surely you can give examples.
George R. R. Martin, Liu Cixin (The Three-Body Problem), N. K. Jemisin (The Fifth Season), Brian K. Vaughan (Saga), Patrick Rothfuss (Name of the Wind)
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Re: World Building
Yes, George RR Martin does some great worldbuilding, but it comes out of character and plot. He doesn't put the cart before the horse. His stories are complex and require intricately detailed worlds with different cultures and politics and religion. However, he never loses sight of the story and that execution is paramount. People wouldn't give a shit about the different religions or what bastards are called in the different kingdoms if they didn't care about the plots and motives that arise from those bits of lore. DB is NOT THAT. It's a simple world about martial artists constantly striving to get better. Last point on Martin, he doesn't create more of the world than he needs to make the story work.
Your statement wasn't helpful because you said lots of authors say worldbuilding is important and hold it to high esteem and is critical then doubled down on that statement when I asked a perfectly sensible question. Naturally my follow up was to ask for an example and you didn't give one. Saying they are there if you look for them wasn't helpful. You basically said, "trust me, they're there." I wasn't asking a loaded question or one you would have to go out of your way in order to answer. Thank you in your follow up for giving a few specific examples. This is getting contentious for some reason and it really shouldn't.
Just taking your own statements, the issue you have is not the lack of worldbuilding, it's the execution of the story.
The statement doesn't do the inferring. I was correct. I wasn't insulting you, just pointing out this error. I never claimed to be great at grammar, but this one bugs me, much like when people write "would of" instead of "would've". I didn't mean it to come off as testy, just pointing out what I consider an egregious error.but you can deduce ones do in the way they write a story or find an oblique statement that infers it rather than out states it.
Your statement wasn't helpful because you said lots of authors say worldbuilding is important and hold it to high esteem and is critical then doubled down on that statement when I asked a perfectly sensible question. Naturally my follow up was to ask for an example and you didn't give one. Saying they are there if you look for them wasn't helpful. You basically said, "trust me, they're there." I wasn't asking a loaded question or one you would have to go out of your way in order to answer. Thank you in your follow up for giving a few specific examples. This is getting contentious for some reason and it really shouldn't.
Just taking your own statements, the issue you have is not the lack of worldbuilding, it's the execution of the story.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
Re: World Building
Brilliantly worded on everything and I whole wholeheartedly agree.SaiyanGod117 wrote:Lol, no I mean to infer.ABED wrote:First, you mean imply, not infer.
Imply and infer are opposites, like a throw and a catch. To imply is to hint at something, but to infer is to make an educated guess. The speaker does the implying, and the listener does the inferring. It’s funny how the first thing you try to do is correct me on grammar and fail when you have several grammatical as well as punctuation mistakes in this very thread.
No offense, but nothing ever is to you, so I’m starting to think this is a “you” problem rather than a “me” problemAnd second, your statement isn't helpful.
I’m not going to waste my day digging through interviews or videos for such specific quotes, that I may or may not find, but I can give you names of authors I read who are professional and award-winning no less. As such these authors use worldbuilding as a hallmark of their writing, honestly it shouldn’t be evident enough it’s held in high esteem if it's tightly woven into numerous stories. Like that’s common sense.Who are these authors? Even if you have to infer that's what they mean, surely you can give examples.
George R. R. Martin, Liu Cixin (The Three-Body Problem), N. K. Jemisin (The Fifth Season), Brian K. Vaughan (Saga), Patrick Rothfuss (Name of the Wind)