Lack of females characters in Dragon Ball

[ruler9871]

We aren't acting like motherhood is a bad thing. It's one thing if you were mostly arguing that we missed something and Bulma wasn't relegated solely to the role of mother, which is fair. It's another to paint us as arguing against female characters being mothers. What I don't like is when that's the extent of their character.

I've encounter multiple people (particularly those with feminist/sjw leanings) who moan and whine at the prospect of a popular female character becoming a mother, even when it doesn't define their whole character. People like the ones I'm talking about are a dime-a-dozen in the West.

[Dr. Casey]

There's plenty of valid criticisms to be had about Dragon Ball's handling of female characters, but I don't think Bulma should be used as an example. She's a counterargument, if anything. The fact that she still plays a significant role during the early Cell arc and still receives character moments and character beats during Buu is actually pretty amazing for a series that shifts characters into the background as rapidly as Dragon Ball. Her Pilaf arc peers of Oolong and Puar were basically written out of the story the moment the original hunt for the Dragon Balls was over (minus Puar's role in Uranai Baba's tournament and Oolong's recognition of Chi-Chi - the latter being an underrated moment in the story and a nice character moment, I feel), and Chaozu played essentially no role after Nappa despite being introduced far later than Bulma.

You could take some issue with Bulma's characterization, perhaps - I haven't really given the matter any thought - but far as attention goes, I thought Bulma comes out very well.

[ABED]

We aren't acting like motherhood is a bad thing. It's one thing if you were mostly arguing that we missed something and Bulma wasn't relegated solely to the role of mother, which is fair. It's another to paint us as arguing against female characters being mothers. What I don't like is when that's the extent of their character.

I've encounter multiple people (particularly those with feminist/sjw leanings) who moan and whine at the prospect of a popular female character becoming a mother, even when it doesn't define their whole character. People like the ones I'm talking about are a dime-a-dozen in the West.

Fair enough. I've seen comments like those as well, but are either myself or MasenkoHA arguing that?

[ruler9871]

Bulma's no saint? She's not perfect, but what has she done that was that terrible?

People who complain about VegeBul often act like Bulma being one of the heroes means there's no way she would fall for someone like Vegeta. Such views are extremely naive and out of touch with reality (because in real life even the nicest girls are turned-on by bad boys lol).

[ABED]

Bulma's no saint? She's not perfect, but what has she done that was that terrible?

People who complain about VegeBul often act like Bulma being one of the heroes means there's no way she would fall for someone like Vegeta. Such views are extremely naive and out of touch with reality (because in real life even the nicest girls are turned-on by bad boys lol).

There are bad boys and then there are mass murderers.

[MasenkoHA]

1. Having sex =/= wanting to have children. You're making a false dichotomy.

And you’re not getting it. Nothing even suggest he’s attracted to her and we already know he didn’t want a hybrid. I’m not conflating the two.

[ruler9871]

Bulma's no saint? She's not perfect, but what has she done that was that terrible?

People who complain about VegeBul often act like Bulma being one of the heroes means there's no way she would fall for someone like Vegeta. Such views are extremely naive and out of touch with reality (because in real life even the nicest girls are turned-on by bad boys lol).

There are bad boys and then there are mass murderers.

Mass murderers on average do even better with women than regular bad boys lol. Nearly every major warlord, dictator, etc tends to attract & sleep with lots of women over their lifetime (unless they're gay).

[Dr. Casey]

There are bad boys and then there are mass murderers.

Haha, yeah. I think the issue some people have with Bulma x Vegeta, ruler, is that it had only been a couple of years since Vegeta slaughtered her boyfriend and several of her other closest friends. It's definitely a far more extreme example than Bulma falling for the bad boy desert bandit during the Pilaf arc.

[ABED]

People who complain about VegeBul often act like Bulma being one of the heroes means there's no way she would fall for someone like Vegeta. Such views are extremely naive and out of touch with reality (because in real life even the nicest girls are turned-on by bad boys lol).

There are bad boys and then there are mass murderers.

Mass murderers on average do even better with women than regular bad boys lol. Nearly every major warlord, dictator, etc tends to attract & sleep with lots of women over their lifetime (unless they're gay).

I have the strangest feeling we've had this conversation before. Yes, there are women that are attracted to dictators and warlords, but they aren't good women.

[ruler9871]

1. Having sex =/= wanting to have children. You're making a false dichotomy.

And you’re not getting it. Nothing even suggest he’s attracted to her and we already know he didn’t want a hybrid. I’m not conflating the two.

People often change their minds and priorities in life over time. There's nothing contradictory about that.

We never seen how VegeBul hooked up, nor Krillin x A18 for that matter merely due to Toriyama's reluctance to write about relationships & sex beyond a gag scene or a plot device.

[ruler9871]

There are bad boys and then there are mass murderers.

Mass murderers on average do even better with women than regular bad boys lol. Nearly every major warlord, dictator, etc tends to attract & sleep with lots of women over their lifetime (unless they're gay).

I have the strangest feeling we've had this conversation before. Yes, there are women that are attracted to dictators and warlords, but they aren't good women.

Neither is Bulma to a extent, especially in Early DB. So it's not out-of-character at all.

[ABED]

We never saw 18 and Kuririn "hook up" but we did see the attraction.

Neither is Bulma to a extent, especially in Early DB.

She's flaky at times and vain at worst.

[Kanassa]

Bulma's no saint? She's not perfect, but what has she done that was that terrible?

People who complain about VegeBul often act like Bulma being one of the heroes means there's no way she would fall for someone like Vegeta. Such views are extremely naive and out of touch with reality (because in real life even the nicest girls are turned-on by bad boys lol).

There are bad boys and then there are mass murderers.

Hey, even School Shooters have their fangirls (That moment when you realize you're not even joking...)

[ABED]

People who complain about VegeBul often act like Bulma being one of the heroes means there's no way she would fall for someone like Vegeta. Such views are extremely naive and out of touch with reality (because in real life even the nicest girls are turned-on by bad boys lol).

There are bad boys and then there are mass murderers.

Hey, even School Shooters have their fangirls (That moment when you realize you're not even joking...)

That doesn't surprise me. Murderers have groupies. Bulma doesn't strike me as that type. She's more or less just a girl that in the moment lets her hormones get the best of her when she sees a hot guy for the first time.

[MasenkoHA]

[quote]People often change their minds and priorities in life over time. There's nothing contradictory about that.
[/quote]

People absolutely change their mind and priorities but that has nothing to do with this. It’s very obvious Vegeta did not want a son. And nothing even comes close to suggesting he found Bulma sexually attractive.

And despite this insistence Bulma liked “bad boys” from what we’ve actually seen she likes pretty boys regardless of their moral code. All the guy she swoon over was based on their looks. Not their personality or action. And Vegeta is hardly drawn like a pretty boy.


[quote]We never seen how VegeBul hooked up, nor Krillin x A18 for that matter merely due to Toriyama's reluctance to write about relationships & sex beyond a gag scene or a plot device[/quote].

We knew there was an attraction on Kurilin’s end. And 18 seemed at least somewhat attracted to him in return.

[ABED]

What are your thoughts on the filler episode where Bulma takes care of Vegeta after he injures himself during training? There's a subtle attraction there.

[MasenkoHA]

What are your thoughts on the filler episode where Bulma takes care of Vegeta after he injures himself during training? There's a subtle attraction there.

I honestly forgot about that episode because last time I watched DBZ all the way through was Kai


It’s not that far out of the realm of possibility for her to be hot fo Vegeta. Even if I think it contradicts her attraction to pretty boys schtick.

It still doesn’t account for Vegeta’s end of the courtship. I think we’re suppose to assume it was a brief consensual physical thing. And I’m not buying Vegeta has any interest in such things.

Let’s call it for what it actualy was. Toriyama wanted Vegeta to have a hybrid son and he wanted to do a John Conner type story. Bulma was the only available female to pop a baby out of bonus points her being a genius so there was a feasible reason for Saiyajin John Conner to have a time machine.

[ABED]

It still doesn’t account for Vegeta end of the courtship. I think we’re suppose to assume it was a brief consensual physical thing. And I’m not buying Vegeta has any interest in such things.

He's male isn't he?

In any case, just reading that Pan was in fact added to GT for the express purpose of being a damsel bugs me.

[MasenkoHA]

He's male isn't he?
.

He’s male but the Saiyajin race always struck me as a race of asexuals who only find sex useful for the strict purpose of procreation and not so much for pleasure.

Even when Nappa suggest they breed with earth’s women (which Vegeta shoots down) It’s more of a “let’s create an army of uber hybrids” than “We’re evil so let’s have our way with their women just cuz”

Sex seems like a means to an end for Saiyajin. Not a hedonistic thing.

[Bebi Hatchiyack]

Bulma, I’ll grant you at least stays somewhat relevant being the team’s techie but even then let’s be real there was no genuine reason to get Bulma with Vegeta other than Toriyama needed a baby factory for Vegeta so he could do John Conner but as a Super Saiyajin.

You made me laugh at that one.

But that's one of those many reason I don't like much the Cyborg/Android/Cell saga also poor Yamcha being treated as the one who cheated on Bulma, yikes makes me cringe. In a way I have to agree that most of female character are reduced as baby factory except Bulma who do more than most.