DBGT: Criminally underrated!!

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:50 pm

Well, supposedly it took a year to evacuate everyone from the Earth.
Right, don't go and find the DBs again (seeing as it took less than a year last time), just blow up the earth for the fun of it. And to make it significant, let's kill Piccolo.

What would happen if the black star dragonballs were used on a spaceship in the middle of nowhere?

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:54 pm

caejones wrote:Well, supposedly it took a year to evacuate everyone from the Earth.
Right, don't go and find the DBs again (seeing as it took less than a year last time), just blow up the earth for the fun of it. And to make it significant, let's kill Piccolo.

What would happen if the black star dragonballs were used on a spaceship in the middle of nowhere?

But why was earth shaking only a few weeks after the wish was made. The reason why they evacuated everyone was because of that.

suomipoika · Post by **suomipoika** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:56 am

I think that GT was pretty good, only thing that I dont understand is that why Gohan is not in his mystic form?
Maybe he is in his mystic form, but if he transforms to ssj in mystic form should he be a lot stronger then Goku?

Captain Awesome · Post by **Captain Awesome** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:04 am

For the large part, I enjoyed GT.

Sure there were plotholes galore, but amidst the crap there were some genuinely good Ideas (I liked the whole Tsufu-jin Saiya-jin history) but they all suffered from poor execution.

I think the series had more consistent animation (possibly because it was shorter) and great music.
Not to mention, the ending was gorgeous.

LeMoonwalker · Post by **LeMoonwalker** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:29 am

I agree with Outrun2, I liked GT and I don't understand why fans hate it that much.
When I saw the first episodes, I didn't really like them.
But then I watched the Super 17 and Shadow Dragons sagas, and it was better.
So, I like GT, but of course less than DB and DBZ.

Neon Z · Post by **Neon Z** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:19 pm

I think the main problem with Gt aren't the plotholes. Z anime had many plotholes too and that didn't bother anyone. Only hardcore Z fans would be offended, and they're just a small number of the viewers. There were many bad choices from GT's creators which affected its popularity:

1-Characters

During the Black Star Dragon Ball Saga, most of the cast, save Goku, Trunks and Pan are dumped and completely forgotten during almost 20 episodes. Also, unlike the Namek Saga or Goku's training with Roshi in early DB, there were no replacements for all the lost characters, just several, fairly bland, one shots.

Even Trunks and Pan were hardly appealing characters. AT knew that to make new kids relevant in DB they needed power, so he gave Gohan his hidden potential and Goten an inherent SSJ, but Pan had nothing like that. Trunks had the known image, but suffered from an extremely bland personality and also the lack of power. They didn't even let him use SSJ often during the first saga...

2-Battles

I really don't know what happened here. Hand to hand combat basically disappeared, and most of the remaining was reduced to someone punching wildly while the other blocks everything too. Something like Uub's spinning kick to Baby became a rarity. Most of the battles were basically just generic blasts thrown around, most of them not even named.

The Super 17 battle probably is the biggest offender, perfectly showcasing that trend.

Untouchable · Post by **Untouchable** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:59 pm

Despite all of the general disdain over the over-exposed Goku in GT, it's easy to understand why Toei decided to put the focus on him...I mean he is the face of the franchise and Toei probably knew that the franchise's time was nearing an end. It never bothered me TOO much that he was the focal point of the series, but what DID bother me was:

1) The idea of turning Goku into a child in his normal, SSJ, SSJ3 forms only to have him revert back to full adult form for SSJ4. That was just pretty much...stupid. I mean, he's either a kid or an adult, it's not too difficult to decide on that, is it?!?!?. Just for the record, I wished he had stayed in his adult form for the duration of the series...

2) It pissed me off that Goten's spot on the ship to retrieve the Black Star Dragonballs was given to Pan. That was probably the moment where I really started to not enjoy GT. Goten was introduced in Z as a young child with potential greater than Goku and Gohan, was relegated to nothing during the course of the Buu arc, and then was pretty much discarded in GT. What a waste...same could also be said for Trunks, but at least he got to to go on the journey (even though he was only fodder for Goku, and to some degree, Pan).

3)Super Android 17 was difficult to stomach as well. I mean, maybe this is nitpicking and all, but wasn't Cell supposed to be Dr. Gero's ultimate creation...and where in the hell did Dr. Myuu and Dr. Gero get the necessary items to create a clone #17...what the hell is that all about?

I guess that's all for now...GT isn't overrated or underrated...I think it's just 'by the numbers.' You HAD to know that Goku was going to save the day, it was like watching all of the Z movies...

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:10 pm

Untouchable wrote:I guess that's all for now...GT isn't overrated or underrated...I think it's just 'by the numbers.' You HAD to know that Goku was going to save the day, it was like watching all of the Z movies...

Not all of the movies. DBZ movies 1, 9, and 11 were handled without him. 10 too if one considers the physical presence Gohan, Goten, and Broly see as an allusion (which I don't).

Untouchable · Post by **Untouchable** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:32 pm

Conan the SSJ wrote:Not all of the movies. DBZ movies 1, 9, and 11 were handled without him. 10 too if one considers the physical presence Gohan, Goten, and Broly see as an allusion (which I don't).

Of course, there are those exceptions...1 was definitely a Gohan moment and 11 also saw the "exclusion" of Goku (though one might suggest that 11 was pretty much overkill and pointless anyway).

However, much like 10, movie 9 had the same kind of vague "is-he-there-or-not" moment when he teleports to punch Bojack as he "seems" to be going in for the kill.

In any case, those movies suggest that without Goku's help in some shape or form the world is doomed.

As I said, GT is by the numbers for the most part and Goku is the main recepient of that formula. Many would argue that at this point, without Toriyama as a blueprint for success, the franchise had already hit its peak and was well on its way down anyway.

Post by **Kaboom** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:38 pm

I read something somewhere (Heck, might've been ToT...) where someone described the movies as "Goku Saves Everyone" volumes 1-13. Seems humorously fitting, to me.

Post by **TripleRach** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:14 am

That sounds like this list at Temple O' Trunks.

Mr. Announcer · Post by **Mr. Announcer** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:15 am

I think my extreme distaste for the series can be entirely explained in one word: PAN.

But seriously, I don't think GT was so much a bad idea as it was just very unsuccessfully presented. I'm pretty sure I didn't laugh or feel emotionally stirred even once throughout the experience, and frankly the designs were awful, A-W-F-U-L.

Captain Awesome · Post by **Captain Awesome** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 3:28 am

Mr. Announcer wrote: I'm pretty sure I didn't laugh or feel emotionally stirred even once throughout the experience, and frankly the designs were awful, A-W-F-U-L.

What about the ending?, I thought that was the only part of GT that lived up to (In my opinion, actually surpassed) it's predecessor, I thought Z had an incredibly lackluster ending.

Maphisto86 · Post by **Maphisto86** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:07 am

Mr. Announcer wrote:I think my extreme distaste for the series can be entirely explained in one word: PAN.

But seriously, I don't think GT was so much a bad idea as it was just very unsuccessfully presented. I'm pretty sure I didn't laugh or feel emotionally stirred even once throughout the experience, and frankly the designs were awful, A-W-F-U-L.

Wow really? I didn't mind Pan much and it made sense since she belonged to the "next generation" so to speak but she was overemphasized and her character portrayal (not design) was sloppy.

Yeah it wasen't a bad idea to continue the story perhaps but I mean after the Buu saga the idea mill was fresh out. While a Tsfurujin (or however you spell it) taking revenge was a great idea it had already been done in a video game. The Golden/SSJ Oozaru was a great idea, as well as the Dragonballs going wrong but in the end the execution was all wrong. Judging from the previous posts I can't seem to say much more than someone else has already said. In a nutshell some of the ideas where great and had promise but the execution of those ideas was flat, uninspired and boring.

Mr. Announcer · Post by **Mr. Announcer** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:17 am

Captain Awesome wrote:
Mr. Announcer wrote: I'm pretty sure I didn't laugh or feel emotionally stirred even once throughout the experience, and frankly the designs were awful, A-W-F-U-L.
What about the ending?, I thought that was the only part of GT that lived up to (In my opinion, actually surpassed) it's predecessor, I thought Z had an incredibly lackluster ending.

You know what, you're totally right. I did tear up a bit for that episode, can't believe I forgot. Okay, the entire series sucked. Except for the ending, because it was finally over, haha! No really, that was a good ending.

Post by **Kaboom** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:40 am

TripleRach wrote:That sounds like this list at Temple O' Trunks.

Yup. Thought so.

Bomber Greek · Post by **Bomber Greek** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:25 am

Although I haven't seen GT yet, I know of a major plothole that completely changed the series! Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

Emperor Pilaf wishes Goku back into a kid, right? Well, how would he be alive? In the end of DBZ, wasn't everyone on Earth wished back to life, except for evil people? If yes, wouldn't Emperor Pilaf be dead?

Post by **Kaboom** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:41 am

Bomber Greek wrote:Although I haven't seen GT yet, I know of a major plothole that completely changed the series! Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

Emperor Pilaf wishes Goku back into a kid, right? Well, how would he be alive? In the end of DBZ, wasn't everyone on Earth wished back to life, except for evil people? If yes, wouldn't Emperor Pilaf be dead?

He's stubborn?

Pilaf never seemed to exude an air of "pure evil" or anything, and by then he must've been getting old and mellow already, so Porunga probably decided to let him come back.

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:14 pm

Bomber Greek wrote:Emperor Pilaf wishes Goku back into a kid, right? Well, how would he be alive? In the end of DBZ, wasn't everyone on Earth wished back to life, except for evil people? If yes, wouldn't Emperor Pilaf be dead?

See this old thread of mine from a while ago, considering GT is more a continuation of the DB/Z anime alone rather than both it and the DB manga, it isn't a plothole.

Vegard Aune · Post by **Vegard Aune** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:10 pm

I can mention a far more severe plothole than that: The Ultimate Dragonballs. They don't exist. If Piccolo was able to create Dragonballs before he was split in two, why did they have Dende do it later? Besides, Piccolo Daimao didn't know about the Dragonballs before he was introduced, so how could he have created a set himself? Also, they never showed up on the Dragon radar. Great going, Toei. You based the entire series on a plothole.

Kanzenshuu

DBGT: Criminally underrated!!

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