Trunks' Age

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Trunks' Age

Postby Lavender Saiyan » Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:34 pm

I've been thinking about this a lot recently...We know Trunks is 17 when he first comes back in time. But I've heard a lot of people say he's only 18 during his second trip back.

Why is it that so many people think this? What is it based off of?

Because it makes no sense to me. First of all, since each timeline forms into it's own separate timeline, there's no way Trunks could simply spend 1 year in his own time and jump an extra 2 years into the future of a timeline that hasn't been able to play it's self out yet.

In addition, 3 years would have had to have passed in Trunks time for all the math to come to near correct on Cell's appearance in his own time (When Trunks kills him). I believe it's stated to take 24 years for Cell to be born. Since Cell states this when Trunks is just a baby...If Trunks was 17 when he first appeared, then he'd be 20 when he came back the second time. Another 3 years pass making Trunks 23 (Not counting the 2 years he spent in the ROSAT) when Cell arrives. So even that way the math is not perfect.

But if Trunks were to be only 18 during his second trip back. That'd make him only 21 when Cell arrives in his time.
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Re: Trunks' Age

Postby Kid Trunks » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:10 pm

Lavender Saiyan wrote:But if Trunks were to be only 18 during his second trip back. That'd make him only 21 when Cell arrives in his time.


How do get that?

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Re: Trunks' Age

Postby Lavender Saiyan » Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:10 am

Kid Trunks wrote:
Lavender Saiyan wrote:But if Trunks were to be only 18 during his second trip back. That'd make him only 21 when Cell arrives in his time.


How do get that?

It's stated that 3 years pass in his time between him killing 17 & 18 and Cell's arrival.
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Re: Trunks' Age

Postby Kid Trunks » Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:12 am

Lavender Saiyan wrote:
Kid Trunks wrote:
Lavender Saiyan wrote:But if Trunks were to be only 18 during his second trip back. That'd make him only 21 when Cell arrives in his time.


How do get that?

It's stated that 3 years pass in his time between him killing 17 & 18 and Cell's arrival.


Cell arriving in his time? Or the "Cell Games" time line?

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Postby Raki » Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:15 am

Timeline or not, Trunks still ages. Not counting the fact that Cell has to take time to absorb energy. So Trunks being about 25 would work out fine.
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Postby Kid Trunks » Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:23 am

So that means that after Trunks warned Goku about the androids that would arrive in 3 years, he went back to his own time line and waited out the 3 years naturally, and then returned? Seems unlikely.

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Postby SSJ2bardock » Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:26 am

Kid Trunks wrote:So that means that after Trunks warned Goku about the androids that would arrive in 3 years, he went back to his own time line and waited out the 3 years naturally, and then returned? Seems unlikely.


That's always the way I thought it happened, but time travel can get confusing. That would make Trunks 22 right?

17 during first arrival
3 years between visits
1 year in ROSAT
1 more year in ROSAT
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Re: Trunks' Age

Postby Terra-jin » Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:00 am

Lavender Saiyan wrote:Because it makes no sense to me. First of all, since each timeline forms into it's own separate timeline, there's no way Trunks could simply spend 1 year in his own time and jump an extra 2 years into the future of a timeline that hasn't been able to play it's self out yet.

I guess you're saying that you can only jump to either the past or present of a timeline, because the future doesn't yet exist, right? I don't think that has to be true; there's lots of timetravel versions that allow this, and nowhere in Dragonball is this contradicted.
Trunks makes a remark to Goku that they will meet again once Trunks has gathered enough energy. Since that takes approximately eight months, this line seems to indicate that Trunks can indeed travel to the future of a timeline (in this case, the extra 2 years into the future you mentioned).
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Re: Trunks' Age

Postby Lavender Saiyan » Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:54 am

Terra-jin wrote:
Lavender Saiyan wrote:Because it makes no sense to me. First of all, since each timeline forms into it's own separate timeline, there's no way Trunks could simply spend 1 year in his own time and jump an extra 2 years into the future of a timeline that hasn't been able to play it's self out yet.

I guess you're saying that you can only jump to either the past or present of a timeline, because the future doesn't yet exist, right? I don't think that has to be true; there's lots of timetravel versions that allow this, and nowhere in Dragonball is this contradicted.
Trunks makes a remark to Goku that they will meet again once Trunks has gathered enough energy. Since that takes approximately eight months, this line seems to indicate that Trunks can indeed travel to the future of a timeline (in this case, the extra 2 years into the future you mentioned).

I think it depends...Because it took Trunks 3 years to go back and tell the gang the good news about him destroying 17 & 18.

Besides Trunks does say:

"If I'm still alive, I'll come help...In 3 years."

EDIT: But it's always been my belief that Trunks would have to be going to that exact same timeline. If he were jumping in the future of the Present World's timeline, that'd mean that there's another timeline out there in the Present World in which Trunks does NOT return to. In addition, since when he returns to his own timeline it's clear that time had passed in that timeline. So that means his time machine is set to bring him back to the EXACT timeline he was in before. It wouldn't make sense for Trunks to set for his Time Machine to go a week or 2 into the future of the timeline he left. That would mean that there's yet another Future Timeline in which Trunks never returns and that world is left amock by the Jinzoningen when he could just go back to the exact one he left. So it appears that the Time Machine can send you back to the exact dimension that you were once in but takes into account any time that has passed.

It's obvious that Time Travel is a very complex thing in the DB Universe and it open to interpritation. But what I'm trying to get at is, Trunks would have HAD to wait 3 years before going back the 2'nd Time. It's the only way Cell's arrival in Trunks time adds up mathmatically.
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Re: Trunks' Age

Postby Kid Trunks » Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:16 am

Lavender Saiyan wrote:I think it depends...Because it took Trunks 3 years to go back and tell the gang the good news about him destroying 17 & 18.

Besides Trunks does say:

"If I'm still alive, I'll come help...In 3 years."


Maybe he meant "I'll come help when three years pass in your time".



Lavender Saiyan wrote:EDIT: But it's always been my belief that Trunks would have to be going to that exact same timeline. If he were jumping in the future of the Present World's timeline, that'd mean that there's another timeline out there in the Present World in which Trunks does NOT return to. In addition, since when he returns to his own timeline it's clear that time had passed in that timeline. So that means his time machine is set to bring him back to the EXACT timeline he was in before.


But the thing is, Trunks can't have gone back to his own time line. Because if he could, he would have gone into the past of his own time line and prevented the androids from killing everyone. But Trunks himself said that couldn't be done. So everytime Trunks time travels, he creates a new time line. It's impossible for him to travel within a time line. It is also impossible for him to return to a time line he has previously been to (this includes the the very one he came from) since he always creates a new one when he travels.

Lavender Saiyan wrote:That would mean that there's yet another Future Timeline in which Trunks never returns and that world is left amock by the Jinzoningen when he could just go back to the exact one he left.


Not necessarily though, since every time a new time line is created I'm sure a new Trunks is created too. So its possible (I guess) that when Trunks goes home, he's actually going back to a different Trunks home. So the Trunks of that time goes back into another Trunks' time. And the Trunks of that time goes back into another Trunks' time. And on and on and on forever...maybe? Just a thought.

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Postby Terra-jin » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:13 pm

I believe that new timelines are created only when you travel to the past of a timeline. Timelines are based on the past that existed, however, if you move to the future, there is no past to create a new timeline from. I've explained it better in my timeline manifesto I published a while back.
The meat of it was that there's several distinguishable rules on Dragonball time travel, and some of these rules can go either way. The options I chose from among those available leads to a theory that doesn't have a butt-load of timelines and doesn't have inconsistencies (or stretches) like a lazy Cell or something.

To Lavender: it took Trunks 3 years at that time, because he wanted to make sure he defeated Cell first. Since Cell emerged at 288 and Trunks returned at 785, his three year wait had nothing to do with his (in-)ability to travel to the future.
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Postby mystic trunks » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:04 pm

He is 17 when he comes to warn goku and the others

20 when he comes back when there are fighting 19 and 20

and 21 after he comes out of the rosat.

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Re: Trunks' Age

Postby Lavender Saiyan » Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:01 pm

Kid Trunks wrote:But the thing is, Trunks can't have gone back to his own time line. Because if he could, he would have gone into the past of his own time line and prevented the androids from killing everyone. But Trunks himself said that couldn't be done. So everytime Trunks time travels, he creates a new time line. It's impossible for him to travel within a time line. It is also impossible for him to return to a time line he has previously been to (this includes the the very one he came from) since he always creates a new one when he travels.

My theory on Time Travel seems to agree with Terra-jin's. I think he explained it better than I could.

Terra-jin wrote:it took Trunks 3 years at that time, because he wanted to make sure he defeated Cell first. Since Cell emerged at 288 and Trunks returned at 785, his three year wait had nothing to do with his (in-)ability to travel to the future.


No, no, the line goes

"3 years passed...The time Machine had finally gained enough power"
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Postby Xyex » Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:10 pm

But the thing is, Trunks can't have gone back to his own time line. Because if he could, he would have gone into the past of his own time line and prevented the androids from killing everyone. But Trunks himself said that couldn't be done. So everytime Trunks time travels, he creates a new time line.

Sorry, but no. Trunks does return to his own time. For that matter, he also travels into his own timeline when he goes back in time, it just splits as he enters it because he wasn't originally there. However, when returning to his own time, there's no alteration of the past. No paradox. Thusly, no split. To assume otherwise contradicts the very essence of DB time travel. New timelines are created only with tips that result in a paradox. The only time Trunks going to the future creates a paradox is when he returns post Cell Game (because he kills Cell instead of being killed by Cell, not to mention having different knowledge than the Trunks Cell killed).
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Postby Kid Trunks » Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:31 pm

Xyex wrote:
But the thing is, Trunks can't have gone back to his own time line. Because if he could, he would have gone into the past of his own time line and prevented the androids from killing everyone. But Trunks himself said that couldn't be done. So everytime Trunks time travels, he creates a new time line.

Sorry, but no. Trunks does return to his own time. For that matter, he also travels into his own timeline when he goes back in time, it just splits as he enters it because he wasn't originally there. However, when returning to his own time, there's no alteration of the past. No paradox. Thusly, no split. To assume otherwise contradicts the very essence of DB time travel. New timelines are created only with tips that result in a paradox. The only time Trunks going to the future creates a paradox is when he returns post Cell Game (because he kills Cell instead of being killed by Cell, not to mention having different knowledge than the Trunks Cell killed).


That makes no sense. Only one type of time travel can exist: either 1)you travel within a time line, OR 2)you travel from one time line or another. And since he goes to a new time line the first time he travels, its established that he's using option 2. You can't pick and choose when hes using which type of time travel to suit a theory, he either uses one type or the other.

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Postby Lavender Saiyan » Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:40 pm

Kid Trunks wrote:
Xyex wrote:
But the thing is, Trunks can't have gone back to his own time line. Because if he could, he would have gone into the past of his own time line and prevented the androids from killing everyone. But Trunks himself said that couldn't be done. So everytime Trunks time travels, he creates a new time line.

Sorry, but no. Trunks does return to his own time. For that matter, he also travels into his own timeline when he goes back in time, it just splits as he enters it because he wasn't originally there. However, when returning to his own time, there's no alteration of the past. No paradox. Thusly, no split. To assume otherwise contradicts the very essence of DB time travel. New timelines are created only with tips that result in a paradox. The only time Trunks going to the future creates a paradox is when he returns post Cell Game (because he kills Cell instead of being killed by Cell, not to mention having different knowledge than the Trunks Cell killed).


That makes no sense. Only one type of time travel can exist: either 1)you travel within a time line, OR 2)you travel from one time line or another. And since he goes to a new time line the first time he travels, its established that he's using option 2. You can't pick and choose when hes using which type of time travel to suit a theory, he either uses one type or the other.

But the other way makes no sense what so ever. If he was not going to to the same timeline. Then traveling into the future would result in him going to the future of the Present Timeline (I.E...Beyond when Goku Flies off with Uub). How does it make sense that traveling into the future from the present timeline brings him to a completely new reality of a now alternate future?
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Postby Kid Trunks » Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:11 pm

Lavender Saiyan wrote:But the other way makes no sense what so ever. If he was not going to to the same timeline. Then traveling into the future would result in him going to the future of the Present Timeline (I.E...Beyond when Goku Flies off with Uub). How does it make sense that traveling into the future from the present timeline brings him to a completely new reality of a now alternate future?


Yeah. I totally get what your saying. But if you believe that he can travel to the exact point of a time line that he wants (i.e. his home), then you'd also have to believe that he could have traveled into the past of that time line as well, and changed its outcome. Which Trunks himself says he couldn't do.

So I believe that when he goes back home, he's actually going back to an alternate version of that home. Its basically the same, but its an alternate time line nonetheless. I know you can pick holes in my theory, but it makes more sense to me, since the other theory suggests Trunks could have saved his own time line, but didn't...

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Postby Xyex » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:17 am

then you'd also have to believe that he could have traveled into the past of that time line as well, and changed its outcome.

Ummm, no you wouln't.

the other theory suggests Trunks could have saved his own time line, but didn't...

No it doesn't.

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That makes no sense. Only one type of time travel can exist: either 1)you travel within a time line, OR 2)you travel from one time line or another. And since he goes to a new time line the first time he travels, its established that he's using option 2. You can't pick and choose when hes using which type of time travel to suit a theory, he either uses one type or the other.

See, you're not grasping the basic prinicple of how this works. That's the issue here. He isn't using option 1 or 2 but option 3 which you missed. See, there isn't any 'alternate' timeline to enter when he first goes back. He does enter his own timline. But the effect of doing so, of creating a paradox, causes a split and pushes him into a brand new timeline that has just been forged. One without a future and, thus, no paradox created by Trunks's presence.

It was his timeline he entered originally. And it's entirely possible that, up until his appearance, it's still 'attached' to his timeline, still the same past as his own. But his entering the past of his timeline created a new one. When he goes back to the future he re-enters his timeline once more. Only this time there's no paradox because there's no alteration of the past. Not until the whole Cell debacle, at any rate.

I don't understand why people keep confusing DB's timetravel with interdimensional travel. Trunks isn't going into some seperate universe that just happens to be exactly the same as his own. He's going into the past of his own timeline, thus branching it off into a new timeline with its own distinct future.
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Re: Trunks' Age

Postby Herms » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:04 am

Lavender Saiyan wrote:"3 years passed...The time Machine had finally gained enough power"

What part is that line from?
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Postby Kid Trunks » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:09 am

Xyex wrote:See, you're not grasping the basic prinicple of how this works. That's the issue here. He isn't using option 1 or 2 but option 3 which you missed. See, there isn't any 'alternate' timeline to enter when he first goes back. He does enter his own timline. But the effect of doing so, of creating a paradox, causes a split and pushes him into a brand new timeline that has just been forged. One without a future and, thus, no paradox created by Trunks's presence.

It was his timeline he entered originally. And it's entirely possible that, up until his appearance, it's still 'attached' to his timeline, still the same past as his own. But his entering the past of his timeline created a new one. When he goes back to the future he re-enters his timeline once more. Only this time there's no paradox because there's no alteration of the past. Not until the whole Cell debacle, at any rate.


So are you saying that Trunks can only travel in his own time line?

Xyex wrote:I don't understand why people keep confusing DB's timetravel with interdimensional travel. Trunks isn't going into some seperate universe that just happens to be exactly the same as his own. He's going into the past of his own timeline, thus branching it off into a new timeline with its own distinct future.


No. Nobody believes that. Most everyone knows that each time line is a consequence of time travel. The only thing is, when he creates the new timelines, for that moment, he's in a new timeline...


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