The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[dragon boss z]

Let's do some fusions that were suggested, but never fulfilled.
Boo arc SSJ Goku/Gohan(not Ultimate) fusion dance vs Pure Boo.
Boo arc SSJ Gogeta vs Super Boo.
Boo arc SSJ3 Goku/Mr. Satan or SSJ3 Goku/Dende potara vs Booccolo
Boo arc SSJ3 Goku/Tenshinhan potara vs Boohan.
Boo arc SSJ3 Goku/Ultimate Gohan potara vs Beerus(the level used against SSJG Goku).
SSJ2 GT Gohan/GT Oob(after fusing with Mister Boo) fusion dance vs Syn Shenron.

-Goku/Gohan fusion stomps pure buu and would beat buuhan as well. The fusion wouldn't be that much weaker than Vegito.
-ssj Gogets stomps, super Buu isn't that much stronger than ssj3 Goku, and Gogeta wouldn't be much weaker than Vegito.
-I don't think Goku will get much stronger if any at all, he could even get weaker or become a worse fighter, so probably Buu.
-This one would be close. This fusion would be enough to beat super buu imo, but I'm not sure about Buuhan.
-If we go by the movie version where Beerus used 70% of his power, Beerus wins. If we go by the super version where Beerus used seemingly less than 1% of his power, I would have to go with the fusion at this point.

[RandomGuy96]

Let's do some fusions that were suggested, but never fulfilled.

Boo arc SSJ Goku/Gohan(not Ultimate) fusion dance vs Pure Boo.
Boo arc SSJ Gogeta vs Super Boo.
Boo arc SSJ3 Goku/Mr. Satan or SSJ3 Goku/Dende potara vs Booccolo
Boo arc SSJ3 Goku/Tenshinhan potara vs Boohan.
Boo arc SSJ3 Goku/Ultimate Gohan potara vs Beerus(the level used against SSJG Goku).
SSJ2 GT Gohan/GT Oob(after fusing with Mister Boo) fusion dance vs Syn Shenron.

1. Should be around SS Gogeta... definitely enough to handle Pure Buu.
2. Super Buu would murder him. Goku and Vegeta shouldn't be that much stronger than Goten and Trunks, going off Trunks' spar with Vegeta.
3. Buuccolo wins, I think the resulting fusions would actually be weaker than Goku alone.
4. Unlike Dende and Satan, Goku doesn't get weaker, but his resulting boost is negligible compared to the gap between him and Gohan-Buu, and Buu still wastes him.
5. I'm still not 100% sure how SSG level compares to that of previous characters. Mostly because the Super manga pointedly excluded the "Vegetto can't beat Beerus while SSG maybe could" line from the extended edition of BoG, and later showed base Vegetto as being possibly stronger than SSG. Pass.
6. GT power scaling. Pass.

[ekrolo2]

Toyotaro art vs Young Jijii art

[ricky84]

Let's do some fusions that were suggested, but never fulfilled.

Boo arc SSJ Goku/Gohan(not Ultimate) fusion dance vs Pure Boo.
Boo arc SSJ Gogeta vs Super Boo.
Boo arc SSJ3 Goku/Mr. Satan or SSJ3 Goku/Dende potara vs Booccolo
Boo arc SSJ3 Goku/Tenshinhan potara vs Boohan.
Boo arc SSJ3 Goku/Ultimate Gohan potara vs Beerus(the level used against SSJG Goku).
SSJ2 GT Gohan/GT Oob(after fusing with Mister Boo) fusion dance vs Syn Shenron.

1. Fusion one shots
2. Fusion wins easily
3. Buu wins
4. Fusion wins high difficulty
5. Beerus one shots
6. Fusion wins high difficulty

[ricky84]

Toyotaro art vs Young Jijii art

Young Jijii is more consistent so he wins

[Green_Goblin]

Chiaotzu's bind from the end of the Universe 6 Arc vs. Namek Saga 100% Final Form Frieza?

[dragon boss z]

Chiaotzu's bind from the end of the Universe 6 Arc vs. Namek Saga 100% Final Form Frieza?

Frieza kills him with his own stronger telekinesis.

[Green_Goblin]

Chiaotzu's bind from the end of the Universe 6 Arc vs. Namek Saga 100% Final Form Frieza?

Frieza kills him with his own stronger telekinesis.

Doubt that, Goku's base was LEAGUES above Frieza of that time by that saga and he was struggeling against Chiaotzu's telekinesis.

[Bullza]

Piccolo (Buu Saga) vs. Super Saiyan Kid Trunks

Supreme Kai vs Cell Jr

[dragon boss z]

Piccolo (Buu Saga) vs. Super Saiyan Kid Trunks
Supreme Kai vs Cell Jr

-Piccolo low difficulty. Kid Trunks has yet to impress me and I don't think he should be stronger than any version of future Trunks.
-Based off the supreme kai being supposedly above Piccolo I would say the supreme Kai. He did hold down ssj2 Gohan and didn't get one shot by Dabura in the Super manga so I guess that helps back that up.

Doubt that, Goku's base was LEAGUES above Frieza of that time by that saga and he was struggeling against Chiaotzu's telekinesis.

Holding down a non serious Goku in a joke scene isn't enough to prove anything. It's like saying the bullet that scratched pre ToP Goku would kill Frieza. Chiatsu was too weak to even bring to fight Frieza soldier fodder, and to weak to be considered as a ToP member.

[RandomGuy96]

Piccolo (Buu Saga) vs. Super Saiyan Kid Trunks

Supreme Kai vs Cell Jr

Trunks is stronger, Piccolo himself admitted that much. But I think he can fool the kid somehow to pull a win. Maybe trick him into taking an amplified attack or letting his guard down.

Kaioshin is said to be "in a different dimension" than Piccolo, who could at least trade blows with a Cell Junior without instantly dying (even if he was clearly being overpowered). I think that after 7 years of light training Piccolo would be about on par with a Cell Junior, which makes Kaioshin far superior to the Cell Junior in power. Add his abilities (mostly that he can paralyze a Super Saiyan 2 with telekinesis) and surprising durability (he survived some slaps from Fat Buu, and in the Super manga, several hits from Dabra) and I think Kaioshin takes this pretty easily.

[Myzt0gun]

MANGA Master ROSHI runs the MANGA Tournament of Power gauntlet
wins by knocking their opponent unconscious
Master Roshi vs
1) Basil
2) Ribrianne
3) Kahseral (well he was wounded when they fought so...)
4) Obuni
5) Bergamo
6) Magetta
7) Frost (Roshi didn't use his moves on frost at the start so....)
Piccolo
9) Goku (Base)

*Its hard to gauge the power level of characters in the manga cause its hinted that all fighters are not on full power in the beginning, Goku, Trio De Dangers and Vegeta said Frost was nuts for going all out form the start.
so if they were to go all out, who would win?

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Piccolo (Buu Saga) vs. Super Saiyan Kid Trunks

[spoiler][/spoiler]
SSJ Trunks stomps.

Supreme Kai vs Cell Jr

Kaioshin can paralyse the Cell Jr and then drop a block of Katchin over him or something, but if he doesn't do that he gets one shoted. Don't see any Base Saiyan, who are stated to be >> Kaioshin getting even close to Cell Games SSJs. IMO Kaioshin is somewhere in between Android 16 and Semi Cell.

Chiaotzu's bind from the end of the Universe 6 Arc vs. Namek Saga 100% Final Form Frieza?

Goku was off guard when Chaozu paralised him and he still broke free without much trouble, right? If i'm rembering that scene correctly, then Freeza wins. I don't think Chaozu ever even surpassed Raditz, so he can't do jack shit to hurt Freeza.

Let's do some fusions that were suggested, but never fulfilled.

Boo arc SSJ Goku/Gohan(not Ultimate) fusion dance vs Pure Boo.
Boo arc SSJ Gogeta vs Super Boo.
Boo arc SSJ3 Goku/Mr. Satan or SSJ3 Goku/Dende potara vs Booccolo
Boo arc SSJ3 Goku/Tenshinhan potara vs Boohan.
Boo arc SSJ3 Goku/Ultimate Gohan potara vs Beerus(the level used against SSJG Goku).
SSJ2 GT Gohan/GT Oob(after fusing with Mister Boo) fusion dance vs Syn Shenron.

1) Fusions >>> Anything the individual can pull off, so base Gogeta one shots.
2) Dunno, but i'm leaning towards Super Boo. While Gogeta shouldn't be >>> Gotenks based on adults vs kids scaling, but it's doubtful if he can go SSJ3 based on Vegeta lacking the form. SSJ2 Gogeta can definitely win though.
3) Goku said fusing with one of them would probably make him weaker, so Boo one shots.
4) Gohan-Boo stomps. While fusing with Tenshinhan wouldn't make him weaker, the gap between Gohan-Boo and SSJ3 Goku was gargantuan, and fusing with weak ass Tenshinhan wouldn't help much.
5) According to Elder Kaioshin, Vegetto is the strongest result a fusion could give. A far stronger Vegetto was unable to

Considering Vegito was able to fight back as a candy while everyone else became an inanimate object, I doubt any of Roshi's moves will really work.

If Roshi paralised him he wouldn't be able to move at all, so the situations aren't really comparable.

I definitely disagree here. Goku would molly wop any of them in base. He just had problems with the numbers. Same reason Piccolo and Gohan had trouble with the U9 fighters. Piccolo had just as much trouble if not more than Goku, yet Piccolo beat Bergamo, U9's strongest fighter 1v1 easily. Base Goku should be above all of them individually.

The numbers are irrelevant if you're far stronger than then. Nappa was effortlessy picking apart the Z Fighters and wrecking them, Goku took on 3 Ginyu members at the same time, Piccolo said no matter how many SSJ2s attacked Boo nothing would change, etc. Weaker foes teaming up can definitely manage something and even win against stronger enemies (Goku and Piccolo vs Raditz, Gohan, Piccolo and Kuririn vs Nappa when they came up with a plan, Zarbon and Dodoria vs Vegeta, Vegeta, Kuririn and Gohan vs Freeza, Z Fighters vs 18, etc) but it's pointless if they're all ants.

I definitely don't agree with this. There is no indication of manga goku being even close to that level.
Base Goku had trouble with assault form Frost (I believe Goku wasn't going all out though), but should at best be around final form Frost in base. Piccolo was able to give final form Frost a run for his money. That means final form Frost and base Goku can't be much stronger than super perfect Cell or good Buu as Piccolo is still weaker than good Buu at that point.
If we accept final form Frieza as still being around or above buu level, that would put ssj Caulifla a bit above ssj3 Z Goku, and she should be around but a bit weaker than Goku at that time imo.
I think all of these pretty much add up to Piccolo<base Goku<final form Frost<=>Buu<=final form Frieza<ssj Goku<ssj Vegito. And I would say all the pride troopers by themselves are all weaker than Piccolo. They are definitely all weaker than Frost, who Piccolo challenged.

What implies Piccolo is still weaker than Mr Boo? SSJ Goku was also comparable to <10% SSJB Vegeta on the U6 Arc, what places him far closer to his SSJG form than his pre God golden forms.

I dunno about the Pride Troopers being weaker than Piccolo, but i probably agree. They're all on the same realm of power as SSJ Goku though.

I mean the movie clearly portrayed their base forms as massively stronger even calling their base forms stronger than SSG and calling it "Saiyan Beyond God" it is definitely a far cry from what we see in the manga in terms of the strength of the Base Saiyans.

Also, I think there are pretty major differences in between the three mediums as far as the power scaling is concerned.

That was never stated in the movie though, more like the opposite. Saiyan Beyond God is a thing from a Dragon Ball heroes card or something, and SSJ God is only stated to be surpassed once Goku goes SSJB. Still far stronger than their Z selves though, given how much of a big deal 1st form Freeza was treated as.

MANGA Master ROSHI runs the MANGA Tournament of Power gauntlet
wins by knocking their opponent unconscious
Master Roshi vs
1) Basil
2) Ribrianne
3) Kahseral (well he was wounded when they fought so...)
4) Obuni
5) Bergamo
6) Magetta
7) Frost (Roshi didn't use his moves on frost at the start so....)
Piccolo
9) Goku (Base)

*Its hard to gauge the power level of characters in the manga cause its hinted that all fighters are not on full power in the beginning, Goku, Trio De Dangers and Vegeta said Frost was nuts for going all out form the start.
so if they were to go all out, who would win?

Roshi solos.

[Bullza]

Trunks is stronger, Piccolo himself admitted that much.

He did?

Kaioshin is said to be "in a different dimension" than Piccolo, who could at least trade blows with a Cell Junior without instantly dying (even if he was clearly being overpowered). I think that after 7 years of light training Piccolo would be about on par with a Cell Junior, which makes Kaioshin far superior to the Cell Junior in power. Add his abilities (mostly that he can paralyze a Super Saiyan 2 with telekinesis) and surprising durability (he survived some slaps from Fat Buu, and in the Super manga, several hits from Dabra) and I think Kaioshin takes this pretty easily.

So if you think Super Saiyan Trunks is stronger than Piccolo and Piccolo is about on par with a Cell Jr then you think Super Saiyan Trunks surpassed Super Saiyan Future Trunks with the Grade 2 form?

I mean would you say Super Saiyan Goten could beat Semi Perfect Cell?

[RandomGuy96]

He did?

Yep.

Chapter: 468 (DBZ 274), P12.7
Piccolo: “These two are our only hope…! Th-though it’s a faint hope…”
Note: this is before Fusion is mentioned

Daizenshuu 2 also states that Goten's (presumably base, given the following sentence) battle power is on par with Gohan's.

SON GOTEN

A gifted child who mastered Super Saiyan at a young age.

By virtue of being Goku's son, Goten posses battle power not the least bit inferior to even Gohan's. On top of being able to unleash a startling amount of power in even his normal state, he can easily transform into a Super Saiyan. Furthermore, he merges with Trunks through a technique known as Fusion.

Which honestly seems very reasonable, given how their spar went and how worried Vegeta was in his spar with Trunks. Enough to reflexively punch Trunks to get him to stop. Which Trunks shrugged off.

So if you think Super Saiyan Trunks is stronger than Piccolo and Piccolo is about on par with a Cell Jr then you think Super Saiyan Trunks surpassed Super Saiyan Future Trunks with the Grade 2 form?

I mean would you say Super Saiyan Goten could beat Semi Perfect Cell?

Extremely easily, yes.

[dragon boss z]

MANGA Master ROSHI runs the MANGA Tournament of Power gauntlet
wins by knocking their opponent unconscious
Master Roshi vs
1) Basil
2) Ribrianne
3) Kahseral (well he was wounded when they fought so...)
4) Obuni
5) Bergamo
6) Magetta
7) Frost (Roshi didn't use his moves on frost at the start so....)
Piccolo
9) Goku (Base)

*Its hard to gauge the power level of characters in the manga cause its hinted that all fighters are not on full power in the beginning, Goku, Trio De Dangers and Vegeta said Frost was nuts for going all out form the start.
so if they were to go all out, who would win?

He stops at Magetta. He wont' even be able to move him.

Trunks is stronger, Piccolo himself admitted that much.

He did?

No, he never said that.

If Roshi paralised him he wouldn't be able to move at all, so the situations aren't really comparable.

I still think Vegito could kill Roshi just by flexing, powers almost never work on characters far stronger than them. Roshi's power level would be lucky to be on par with the Ginyu force.

The numbers are irrelevant if you're far stronger than then. Nappa was effortlessy picking apart the Z Fighters and wrecking them, Goku took on 3 Ginyu members at the same time, Piccolo said no matter how many SSJ2s attacked Boo nothing would change, etc. Weaker foes teaming up can definitely manage something and even win against stronger enemies (Goku and Piccolo vs Raditz, Gohan, Piccolo and Kuririn vs Nappa when they came up with a plan, Zarbon and Dodoria vs Vegeta, Vegeta, Kuririn and Gohan vs Freeza, Z Fighters vs 18, etc) but it's pointless if they're all ants.

Super works a little differently, and this being a tournament where you can't kill makes power less relevant as you have to be careful not to kill others. As for your Buu example, Buu is immortal and not really the best example. Multiple ssj2s would have been able to ring out Buu in a tournament setting. Arguably one could if he played his cards right.

What implies Piccolo is still weaker than Mr Boo? SSJ Goku was also comparable to <10% SSJB Vegeta on the U6 Arc, what places him far closer to his SSJG form than his pre God golden forms.

Right here. Piccolo is the second choice to Buu, who is a necessity according to Goku. Clearly according to Goku it goes Buu>Piccolo>rusty Gohan
[spoiler][/spoiler]

I dunno about the Pride Troopers being weaker than Piccolo, but i probably agree. They're all on the same realm of power as SSJ Goku though.

Nah, they are all weaker than base Goku most likely and definitely weaker than ssj as they were getting reckt by ssj Goku together who didn't even want to fight them. Like I said, if a few U9 characters all weaker than Piccolo can almost ring out Piccolo, 7 pride troopers getting stomped by ssj Goku means they are way weaker than ssj Goku. Goku started attacking multiple at once and he thought that was a good idea, backing up they are below base level.

[RandomGuy96]

MANGA Master ROSHI runs the MANGA Tournament of Power gauntlet
wins by knocking their opponent unconscious
Master Roshi vs
1) Basil
2) Ribrianne
3) Kahseral (well he was wounded when they fought so...)
4) Obuni
5) Bergamo
6) Magetta
7) Frost (Roshi didn't use his moves on frost at the start so....)
Piccolo
9) Goku (Base)

*Its hard to gauge the power level of characters in the manga cause its hinted that all fighters are not on full power in the beginning, Goku, Trio De Dangers and Vegeta said Frost was nuts for going all out form the start.
so if they were to go all out, who would win?

Stops at 1. Basil throws a few punches, held back so as not to kill Roshi; Roshi dodges. Basil adjusts his power slightly to account for Roshi being hard to hit relative to his battle power. He hits Roshi once. Roshi is down for the count.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I still think Vegito could kill Roshi just by flexing, powers almost never work on characters far stronger than them. Roshi's power level would be lucky to be on par with the Ginyu force.

Jiren flexing didn't ring Roshi out, so that's doubtful.

Goku and Piccolo were 3x weaker than Raditz and killed him. It can work depending on how skillful both are.

Super works a little differently, and this being a tournament where you can't kill makes power less relevant as you have to be careful not to kill others. As for your Buu example, Buu is immortal and not really the best example. Multiple ssj2s would have been able to ring out Buu in a tournament setting. Arguably one could if he played his cards right.

How different? From what i've seen so far in Toyotaro's Super, technique is taking a huge part on fights. Jiren even calls Goku dumb for relying too much in power when he does that pseudo Kaioken.

Boo can scretch any of his limbs and be back on the battlefield, or leave a piece of himself to regenerate if he gets ringed out, so not really. Plus, either way the other examples i gave stand solid to prove numbers don't matter if you're an ant. To quote Freeza:
Freeza: “Naturally…Did you really think that 3 ants could win against a dinosaur?”

Right here. Piccolo is the second choice to Buu, who is a necessity according to Goku. Clearly according to Goku it goes Buu>Piccolo>rusty Gohan
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Goku didn't know Piccolo had improved yet though, he as going by status quo. When Piccolo fights Frost he even gets surprised by how good he's performing.[

Nah, they are all weaker than base Goku most likely and definitely weaker than ssj as they were getting reckt by ssj Goku together who didn't even want to fight them. Like I said, if a few U9 characters all weaker than Piccolo can almost ring out Piccolo, 7 pride troopers getting stomped by ssj Goku means they are way weaker than ssj Goku. Goku started attacking multiple at once and he thought that was a good idea, backing up they are below base level.

Rereading the fight, he did have the upperhand against them in SSJ, to a point Dyspo and Toppo even had to step in. I thought he was already a SSJ from the get go.

Either way, he still needed SSJ to even get an upperhand against them and he didn't ring out anyone when he went SSJ. Them being weaker than Base Goku is impossible.

[Green_Goblin]

Doubt that, Goku's base was LEAGUES above Frieza of that time by that saga and he was struggeling against Chiaotzu's telekinesis.

Holding down a non serious Goku in a joke scene isn't enough to prove anything. It's like saying the bullet that scratched pre ToP Goku would kill Frieza. Chiatsu was too weak to even bring to fight Frieza soldier fodder, and to weak to be considered as a ToP member.

LMAO do you even FOLLOW OR LISTEN OR READ WHAT THE CHARACTERS SAID? Chiaotzu was only excluded THAT WAY IN THE MOVIE! In the Resurrection 'F' arc as soon as the Frieza Soldiers get out of the ship Tien appologize he didn't brought Chiaotzu along, and in the manga Tien suggests to bring Chiaotzu for the Tournament of Power when it turns out the 10th spot is open.

[PFM18]

That was never stated in the movie though, more like the opposite. Saiyan Beyond God is a thing from a Dragon Ball heroes card or something,

Actually, no. "Saiyan Beyond God" is the official name for their base forms in the movie per the promotional/supplementary material for the movie. It isstated that they could "use the power of SSG without transforming" AKA they had God Ki in their base and were stronger than SSG in their base. This is officially stated in the supplementary material and also usd it in Heroes. Heroes just took the idea from the movie, they didn't just randomly make it up and make a card out of it.

So it makes absolutely no sense that the manga could be following the movie continuity and have their base forms as weak as they are portrayed to be, but hey that is status quo.

and SSJ God is only stated to be surpassed once Goku goes SSJB. Still far stronger than their Z selves though, given how much of a big deal 1st form Freeza was treated as.

Right. This summarizes the scaling in the anime. Base Saiyans<SSG given the dialogue about SSB only being surpassed upon Goku going SSB. But of course, being that his SSJ is stronger than SSG, per BoG, and he was on par with FInal Form Freeza when 1st form Freeza dominated everyone, so their base forms still dwarf their Z selves.

Doubt that, Goku's base was LEAGUES above Frieza of that time by that saga and he was struggeling against Chiaotzu's telekinesis.

Holding down a non serious Goku in a joke scene isn't enough to prove anything. It's like saying the bullet that scratched pre ToP Goku would kill Frieza. Chiatsu was too weak to even bring to fight Frieza soldier fodder, and to weak to be considered as a ToP member.

LMAO do you even FOLLOW OR LISTEN OR READ WHAT THE CHARACTERS SAID? Chiaotzu was only excluded THAT WAY IN THE MOVIE! In the Resurrection 'F' arc as soon as the Frieza Soldiers get out of the ship Tien appologize he didn't brought Chiaotzu along, and in the manga Tien suggests to bring Chiaotzu for the Tournament of Power when it turns out the 10th spot is open.

This is very rude. He may have missed some dialogue you don't have to chastise him for it

MANGA Master ROSHI runs the MANGA Tournament of Power gauntlet
wins by knocking their opponent unconscious
Master Roshi vs
1) Basil
2) Ribrianne
3) Kahseral (well he was wounded when they fought so...)
4) Obuni
5) Bergamo
6) Magetta
7) Frost (Roshi didn't use his moves on frost at the start so....)
Piccolo
9) Goku (Base)

*Its hard to gauge the power level of characters in the manga cause its hinted that all fighters are not on full power in the beginning, Goku, Trio De Dangers and Vegeta said Frost was nuts for going all out form the start.
so if they were to go all out, who would win?

Stops at 1. Basil throws a few punches, held back so as not to kill Roshi; Roshi dodges. Basil adjusts his power slightly to account for Roshi being hard to hit relative to his battle power. He hits Roshi once. Roshi is down for the count.

If it was this easy Jiren would have done it instead of struggling for 4 pages.