Can Two Halves Make A Whole?

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Zuhalter2000
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Post by Zuhalter2000 » Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:21 pm

Freeza Heika wrote:2 half-saiyan, half-human could create any number of things. It could be pure human, pure Saiyan, 3/4 human, 3/4 Saiyan, 17/308 human, well... you get the picture...It depends on if either human genes or Saiyan genes are dominant over the other and pure chance.
You can not make a pure species from hybrids. Think of it like skin color, you may appear totally Asian, for example, but be something like 1/4 Caucasian.
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Post by Freeza Heika » Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:33 pm

Zuhalter2000 wrote:
Freeza Heika wrote:2 half-saiyan, half-human could create any number of things. It could be pure human, pure Saiyan, 3/4 human, 3/4 Saiyan, 17/308 human, well... you get the picture...It depends on if either human genes or Saiyan genes are dominant over the other and pure chance.
You can not make a pure species from hybrids. Think of it like skin color, you may appear totally Asian, for example, but be something like 1/4 Caucasian.
You could, eventually, end up with a pure breed of one or the other. It's like radioactive decay; you keep removing a piece from one of the halves over several generations, but with the insurmountable improbablility that it will occur, because what are the odds that just the right pieces would be inherited every time?
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Post by Bussani » Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:39 pm

SweetCosmicPope wrote:It all comes down to dominant and recessive traits. Theoretically, you could have a full human from this, as well.
Yeah...I wasn't even daring to bring dominant and recessive traits into the mix.
Zuhalter2000 wrote:You can not make a pure species from hybrids. Think of it like skin color, you may appear totally Asian, for example, but be something like 1/4 Caucasian.
If the genetics you get from each parent are random (half from one, half from the other, but the half you get isn't set) then I wouldn't say it's impossible to get a pure breed from two half-breeds. Just very unlikely. Like flipping tails on a coin 100 times in a row. Actually, there's probably a better chance of that happening.

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Post by Zuhalter2000 » Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:22 pm

What I'm trying to say is that the offspring may possess traits completely of one of the species yet it still wont be a pure bred. A pure bred is completely one thing. Take for example dogs. A Golden Retriever is not a pure bred if a few generations ago there was a bulldog in the mix, it may look totally like a Golden Retriever but its not a pure bred. If humans and chimps were to have children, and if those children mated, could it be possible for them to be completely human? (Impossible but its just an example to get a point across).
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Post by Olivier Hague » Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:51 am

Bussani wrote:If you imagine it as two jars of jelly beans, one filled with 100 human jelly beans, the other with 100 Saiyajin jelly beans, then no matter what if you took 50 from each you'd get a child with 50 Saiyajin and 50 human.

But if you had two jars that were each a perfect balance of 50 and 50, shook them up, then took 50 from each, you could end up with less than a perfect balance. Theoretically even 100 Saiyajin...or 100 human even?
This. Exactly.
Technically, the child could be full Saiyan or full Earthling. It's just... well, quite unlikely. And the child being exactly half Saiyan / half Earthling (like his parents, "50 jelly beans of each") is equally as unlikely, actually.

As for the actual features of the child, that would be another matter altogether, depending on dominant and recessive alleles, and we really don't have the material to speculate on that.

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Post by Bussani » Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:35 am

Olivier Hague wrote:And the child being exactly half Saiyan / half Earthling (like his parents, "50 jelly beans of each") is equally as unlikely, actually.
Yeah. Like I said, you might as well flip a coin 100 times and count every heads as human and every tails as Saiyajin (since they have tails...herp). It's extremely unlikely you'd get all heads or all tails, but also quite unlikely that you'd get a perfect 50. And genetics are way more complicated than that even, but this would be similar to the bean example.

Just for fun, here's something that can flip 100 coins.

http://shazam.econ.ubc.ca/flip/

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Post by Olivier Hague » Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:39 am

Unless I got something wrong, there's one chance out of 35.184.372.088.832 that the child would be "pure-breed".

Unlikely.

But technically possible.

But unlikely.

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Post by Freeza Heika » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:11 pm

Olivier Hague wrote:Unless I got something wrong, there's one chance out of 35.184.372.088.832 that the child would be "pure-breed".

Unlikely.

But technically possible.

But unlikely.
It could be an eve lower probablility. For all we know, being a Saiyan-Human hybrid could be like Down Syndome, minus the unpleasantness. The Saiyan genome could have more pairs of chromosomes, which would make the purification to pure human more difficult, and might make the purification to Saiyan compleely impossible.
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Post by Rocketman » Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:34 pm

Freeza Heika wrote:For all we know, being a Saiyan-Human hybrid could be like Down Syndome, minus the unpleasantness.
[Crack about Goten goes here.]

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Post by Zuhalter2000 » Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:01 pm

I think you guys are seeing this like you should be viewing traits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendelian_inheritance

Remember Punnett Squares from high school bio? All about traits, not species.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punnett_square

No matter how much this children look like one race it will never be a pure bred. This is all assuming that Toriyama is going by real genetics in his universe.
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Post by Li'l Lemmy » Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:21 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Freeza Heika wrote:For all we know, being a Saiyan-Human hybrid could be like Down Syndome, minus the unpleasantness.
[Crack about Goten goes here.]
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Post by Bussani » Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:21 pm

Zuhalter2000 wrote:I think you guys are seeing this like you should be viewing traits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendelian_inheritance

Remember Punnett Squares from high school bio? All about traits, not species.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punnett_square

No matter how much this children look like one race it will never be a pure bred. This is all assuming that Toriyama is going by real genetics in his universe.
So far I haven't seen anything saying that there's a difference between the genetics/traits you inherit from your parents and your race. You're assuming there's something separate like, "this is your race". Is there something like this? That's what I wondered in my first post, but so far I haven't found evidence. So if you have anything that says there is, please go ahead and post it.

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Post by Olivier Hague » Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:05 pm

Zuhalter2000 wrote:No matter how much this children look like one race it will never be a pure bred.
If the child only gets the Saiyan (or Earthian) chromosomes from its parents, it will be "purebred". It's really unlikely, but it's possible. See above.

And I don't know why you keep going back to the way the child will look, as the appearance depends on the child's chromosomes in the first place...

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Post by Zuhalter2000 » Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:10 pm

I'm terrible at explaining stuff lol so I'm just gonna give up on this one.
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Post by MasterVampire » Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:35 pm

what about fullsayan + half sayan? = 3/4 sayan?

then do fullsayan + 3/4 sayan = ???

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Post by Zuhalter2000 » Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:46 pm

MasterVampire wrote:what about fullsayan + half sayan? = 3/4 sayan?

then do fullsayan + 3/4 sayan = ???
By the logic of the majority it would look like this.

Image

The offspring will be either Saiyan of Half-Saiyan, 50/50 chance. I don't think that right.
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Post by Olivier Hague » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:04 pm

Zuhalter2000 wrote:
MasterVampire wrote:what about fullsayan + half sayan? = 3/4 sayan?
By the logic of the majority it would look like this.
Image
But that would be for one pair of chromosomes. A human being has 23 of those. That's a bunch of possible combinations.

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Post by Bussani » Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:44 pm

MasterVampire wrote:what about fullsayan + half sayan? = 3/4 sayan?

then do fullsayan + 3/4 sayan = ???
Saiyajin-Saiyajin (full Saiyajin) + Saiyajin-Human (half-breed) = Saiyajin-Saiyajin-Saiyajin-Human (3/4 Saiyajin, aka 1/4 human), like you said. It's like the opposite of Pan.

Saiyajin-Saiyajin-Saiyajin-Human + Saiyajin-Saiyajin-Saiyajin-Saiyajin = Saiyajin-Saiyajin-Saiyajin-Saiyajin-Saiyajin-Saiyajin-Saiyajin-Human (7/8 Saiyajin, aka 1/8 human)

This is speaking roughly though. If me and Olivier are right, the numbers won't be exact, but it would probably be close enough.

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