Strength Checker

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

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dbgtFO
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Re: Strength Checker

Post by dbgtFO » Sun Dec 19, 2010 6:49 am

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:I thought the Viz version got that line right? (I have no idea about the Danish translation, obviously.) What exactly did they say?
Viz
Gohan: "If he's already at full power anyway - I might as well do something!!!"
Danish
Gohan: "He may have reached his full power... But to run away..."
Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:By the way, that is easily one of the coolest looking pages in Dragon Ball history. Teen Gohan is amazing! :D
Yeah, I thought so too the first time I read through tankoubon 39. It was nice, that he actually wanted to do something instead of just giving up, as he did against Cell.
Then again he did try to run away after Buu showed he was more powerful, than he.
EDIT: DAMMIT Bussani :lol:

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Re: Strength Checker

Post by Chibi Mystic Gohan » Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:06 am

Actually, I can kind of see how you could get that translation... I dunno, though. Japanese grammar is still so confusing. :cry:

Maybe you could show me the previous page, for context?

(Also, I think your quote above, when Vegeta's fighting Goku, is something like, "This can't be how you were when you defeated Nappa! Show it to me!" Basically, saying that he isn't using Kaio-Ken.)
Last edited by Chibi Mystic Gohan on Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Strength Checker

Post by dbgtFO » Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:12 am

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:Actually, I can kind of see how you could get that translation... I dunno, though. Japanese grammar is still so confusing. :cry:

Maybe you could show me the previous page, for context?
Done.
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Re: Strength Checker

Post by Chibi Mystic Gohan » Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:19 am

Thank you. Well, that doesn't tell me much more, but I kind of get the impression that Gohan could be talking about Boo? He doesn't say I've reached full power, or he's reached full power, in Japanese, so it's kind of vague. For some reason, the verb (なってしまった) gives me that impression, but maybe Herms can give us some insight?

Also, I've added to my last post. :D
君と再会ったとき 子供のころ大切に想っていた景色を思い出したんだ
僕と踊ってくれないか 光と影の Winding Road いまでも彼に夢中なの?

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Re: Strength Checker

Post by Bussani » Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:20 am

Here's the Viz translation for comparison's sake.

Kaioshin: "It's...it's hopeless...! Gohan, we've got to get out of here!!"
Gohan: "What?! Wh-what are you talking about?! We can't leave it like this...!!!"
Kaioshin: "Listen, you can't beat Buu!!! No one can!! We'll die if we stay!!!"
Babidi: "At last!! The Djinn my daddy made!! I get to see him!!!"
Gohan: "But...!!!"
Kaioshin: "Hurry!!!!"
Gohan: "No!!!"

And then...
Bussani wrote:Gohan: "If he's already at full-power anyway--I might as well do something!!! RAAA!!!!
Kaioshin: "Wh-what are you--?!"
Gohan: "I can't just run away!"
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Re: Strength Checker

Post by dbgtFO » Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:49 am

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:
Thank you. Well, that doesn't tell me much more, but I kind of get the impression that Gohan could be talking about Boo? He doesn't say I've reached full power, or he's reached full power, in Japanese, so it's kind of vague. For some reason, the verb (なってしまった) gives me that impression, but maybe Herms can give us some insight?
Wouldn't it make more sense if he was referring to Fat Buu having reached full power? Because after Buu doesn't show up, Kaioshin tells Gohan to unleash his true power. And Gohan also states, that he probably could manage something, if he could unleash his true power against Fat Buu, so wouldn't it be weird, if he had already reached his full power? Unless of course true power and full power have different meanings or something..

To me it would just make more sense, if he was referring to Boo reaching full power, because Boo had actually just reached full power.
Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:Also, I've added to my last post. :D
Okay, if that's the case, then IDK, if it needs to be added. (My version has Vegeta outright saying: "you couldn't even beat Nappa like this!")

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Re: Strength Checker

Post by Chibi Mystic Gohan » Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:06 am

dbgtFO wrote:Wouldn't it make more sense if he was referring to Fat Buu having reached full power? Because after Buu doesn't show up, Kaioshin tells Gohan to unleash his true power. And Gohan also states, that he probably could manage something, if he could unleash his true power against Fat Buu, so wouldn't it be weird, if he had already reached his full power? Unless of course true power and full power have different meanings or something..

To me it would just make more sense, if he was referring to Boo reaching full power, because Boo had actually just reached full power.
I agree, that probably would make more sense. 実力 (true/real strength) and フルパワー (furupawa-/"full power") are pretty synonymous, one's just an English word, the other a Japanese word. I'll wait to see what Herms has to say, though. He knows about Japanese grammar better than I do.
dbgtFO wrote:Okay, if that's the case, then IDK, if it needs to be added. (My version has Vegeta outright saying: "you couldn't even beat Nappa like this!")
Nah, he specifically says, at the time you defeated Nappa, you weren't like this. Meaning, he wants to see the Kaio-Ken, basically. However, I do think that line does belong on the list. I guess. :D
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Re: Strength Checker

Post by dbgtFO » Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:15 am

Yeah, we'll just have to wait and see what Herms feels about it.
About the Nappa thing. You could be right, maybe it just falls under Vegeta's section instead?

Also why are our posts disappearing all the time? It's really an annoying glitch.
Here are all the posts on page 2.
http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopi ... 8&start=21

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Re: Strength Checker

Post by p123 » Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:17 pm

Yea it appears Gohan feels he can take Initial Fat Buu if he can use his true ability. Whatever the hell that means could be anything really. It seems that it could be SSJ2 or it could be Gohan's enraged SSJ2. Such an odd situation.

Also, I think the comment Vegeta/Kuririn make on Freeza 2nd Powered Up vs Piccolo Weights is missing as well. I will check through it one more time,( jesus how many hours is that going to be! ) just to see if there is anything else missing.


DBGTFO, dude this list is so ridicolous, I only picked up 2 possibly three quotes missing the first time around, coming from an obsessive power level guy who harps on every power statement indirect or direct , that would be a pretty good estimate I would think. I think the most that could be missing is 10, but I'm pretty sure my p123 detector spotted them the first time. Only time will tell though.



Question....


Buuhan says he is the strongest Majin. Is that supposed to be Djinn?

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Re: Strength Checker

Post by dbgtFO » Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:46 pm

p123 wrote:Question....


Buuhan says he is the strongest Majin. Is that supposed to be Djinn?
That's just how Viz named him. In japanese he is called Majin not Djinn.

Also one or two about Pui Pui

[#BO2#PUI]
Chapter: 449 (DBZ 255), P4.6
Context: talking about facing Vegeta alone.
Viz version.
Pui Pui: “Ha! Master Bobbidi told me to be careful... But they're fools!”
Pui Pui/Pocus was told to be careful about the Saiyans, implying, that what Dabra and Babidi felt from them would be enough to make it a difficult fight for Pui Pui, if he wasn't careful.

[#BO2#PUI]
Chapter: 449 (DBZ 255), P9.5
Context: Being surprised at Pui Pui getting beat up so easily.
Viz version.
Babidi: “Hey. Wasn't Pocus the champion of some world?”
Dabra: "The Planet Zoon!!"
So on Planet Zoon, Pui Pui/Pocus was the strongest.

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Re: Strength Checker

Post by Herms » Sun Dec 19, 2010 1:06 pm

Kaboom wrote:Aw damn, I can't tell if you're still waiting for my assigned portions or not, since I totally forgot about it again. I feel like crap now.
I got the Freeza stuff done on my own. Don't feel too bad, I'd much rather you spend your time modding than working like a slave for me. And you did do those chapters you sent me as a test (every bit helps!)

Frankly, I'm surprised all the people I asked to work on this were so willing to help out. Even the people who said they didn't have time were polite and said they liked the idea of this project. I was worried that I'd make some people mad, since I was basically asking them to do lots of work for me for no compensation.

So again, I’d like to thank lash, Bussani, Super Saiyan Turlast x4, Savage68, Cold Skin, Cableguy, jackjack, Kaboom, and anyone else I might be forgetting. Without their help, this project wouldn’t have been even remotely possible. I appreciate everyone's thanks, but I don't want to be taking all the credit here.
JulieYBM wrote:
Bardo117 wrote:How does anyone even have time to type all that?
They do it over several months with help from others.
Specifically, going through my old PMs it looked like I got this project under way in early August. So it took almost half a year! Of course, it was worked on off and on, and bit by bit, rather than as a continuous effort.
lash wrote:Can't believe I actually sat down and read all that, that was insanely long. But it was entertaining.
Potential grammar mistakes I saw:
Thanks, I'll get those fixed.
p123 wrote:I think the only statements that were missed in that entire post were

1) Trunks on SSJ Vegeta against Initial Semi Cell

Trunks says something like He's going to change already? Which would imply SSJ Vegeta is at least on par with Initial Semi Cell


2) Kuririn on Base Gotenks Pre Rosat

Who's knows, he might have a chance. Followed up by Yamcha's He is awfully confident kind of thing going on there
Thanks, I'll put those in. With the Gotenks one, I had somewhat of an inconsistent approach towards "disproved" statements, like here where Kuririn and Yamcha think Gotenks might win but turn out completely wrong. I didn't include that, but I did include similar ones, including Satan's various statements about Cell or Goku being weaklings. I guess it depended on whether my helpers included them or not, or how motivated to include every little thing I felt at the time.

But in general I did try to include stuff like that, for a few reasons. First, I think they're funny. Second, even if these characters' statements turn out to be wrong, they're not necessarily completely useless. So for instance, Gotenks couldn't beat Boo, but the fact that he, Kuririn, and Yamcha thought he could at least potentially says something about his strength (ie that he's good enough for it to at least seem a possibility to some people). Third, if I excluded things that were blatantly wrong like that, it could lead to lots of gray areas where some people might consider a quote blatantly wrong and in need of removal, while others might not. So by including even the patently ridiculous stuff, like Satan saying he could beat Goku in 2 seconds, it enforces the notion that what characters say shouldn't necessarily by taken as gospel. Hopefully by including everything said about a character, a complete picture will be provided, allowing people to decide on their own what they consider valid or not. Or something like that, anyway.
dbgtFO wrote:Like p123, I'm also gonna post some suggestions.

6. Nappa [#SA2#NAP]
Chapter: 228 (DBZ 34), P8.1
Context: Vegeta is unimpressed by Goku's performance.
Vegeta: "You couldn't even beat Nappa like this!" (or something like that)
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/9905/055vc.jpg
The original line goes more like "When you defeated Nappa, you weren't like this". So the idea is just that Goku isn't currently using the power he had when he defeated Nappa (ie the Kaio-ken), and not necessarily that he couldn't have defeated Nappa without the Kaio-ken. So I don't know if that would really belong under Nappa's section. Maybe Goku's?

dbgtFO wrote:
Herms wrote:Chapter: 460 (DBZ 266), P4.1-5
Context: before Gohan fires the Kamehameha at Boo’s ball
Gohan: “An-anyhow, I’ve gone and reached my full power, so…At the very least…Uaaaah! I’ll offer this much resistance!”
Wasn't it Boo, who had reached his full power?
Looking at it again, I think you're right. There's no pronoun to clarify exactly who has reached full power, but in context it probably makes more sense to assume Gohan's talking about Boo. For one thing, he uses the English phrase 'full power', which is how Babidi was describing Boo, but not how Goku, Gohan, or Kaioshin described Gohan's full power (they used Japanese terms like zenryoku or jitsuryoku). Anyone know what Simmons' subs say here?
p123 wrote:Buuhan says he is the strongest Majin. Is that supposed to be Djinn?
You could translate the Japanese word majin as "djinn" (or genie, demon, asura, magical/demonic person, etc), but personally I prefer to leave it untranslated, as least as far as DB goes.
dbgtFO wrote:Also one or two about Pui Pui

[#BO2#PUI]
Chapter: 449 (DBZ 255), P4.6
Context: talking about facing Vegeta alone.
Viz version.
Pui Pui: “Ha! Master Bobbidi told me to be careful... But they're fools!”
Pui Pui/Pocus was told to be careful about the Saiyans, implying, that what Dabra and Babidi felt from them would be enough to make it a difficult fight for Pui Pui, if he wasn't careful.
Thanks, I'll include that.
[#BO2#PUI]
Chapter: 449 (DBZ 255), P9.5
Context: Being surprised at Pui Pui getting beat up so easily.
Viz version.
Babidi: “Hey. Wasn't Pocus the champion of some world?”
Dabra: "The Planet Zoon!!"
So on Planet Zoon, Pui Pui/Pocus was the strongest.
This one's a Vizism though. The original line:
Babidi: “Hey, where’s a place that Pui-Pui would specialize in?”
Dabra: “The high-gravity Planet Zun!”

OK, I could probably think of a less awkward way of phrasing Babidi’s line, but the point is that Zun is somewhere that Pui-Pui would (supposedly) have the upper hand. There’s nothing about him being the strongest guy on that planet. I might throw the original line in there and include a note about how Viz changed the line though.
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Re: Strength Checker

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Sun Dec 19, 2010 1:44 pm

Herms wrote:The original line:
Babidi: “Hey, where’s a place that Pui-Pui would specialize in?”
Dabra: “The high-gravity Planet Zun!”

OK, I could probably think of a less awkward way of phrasing Babidi’s line, but the point is that Zun is somewhere that Pui-Pui would (supposedly) have the upper hand. There’s nothing about him being the strongest guy on that planet. I might throw the original line in there and include a note about how Viz changed the line though.
Does the original version still have Pui Pui say that the planet has a gravity ten times that of Earth and he grew up there?
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Re: Strength Checker

Post by dbgtFO » Sun Dec 19, 2010 1:55 pm

Piccolo Daimao wrote:
Herms wrote:The original line:
Babidi: “Hey, where’s a place that Pui-Pui would specialize in?”
Dabra: “The high-gravity Planet Zun!”

OK, I could probably think of a less awkward way of phrasing Babidi’s line, but the point is that Zun is somewhere that Pui-Pui would (supposedly) have the upper hand. There’s nothing about him being the strongest guy on that planet. I might throw the original line in there and include a note about how Viz changed the line though.
Does the original version still have Pui Pui say that the planet has a gravity ten times that of Earth and he grew up there?
Yep you can see it by the number 10 being written out pretty clearly in the speech balloons.
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/6082/182fo.jpg
@Herms another one, which is about Vegetto, Super Buu, Goku & Vegeta.

Chapter: 507 (DBZ 313), P2.5
Context: Super Boo confronts Goku & Vegeta.
Viz yet again
Goku: “I told you to keep the potara on!! This would've been easy if we could combine!!”
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/8350/048tb.jpg
Last edited by dbgtFO on Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Strength Checker

Post by Chibi Mystic Gohan » Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:04 pm

Herms wrote:Looking at it again, I think you're right. There's no pronoun to clarify exactly who has reached full power, but in context it probably makes more sense to assume Gohan's talking about Boo. For one thing, he uses the English phrase 'full power', which is how Babidi was describing Boo, but not how Goku, Gohan, or Kaioshin described Gohan's full power (they used Japanese terms like zenryoku or jitsuryoku). Anyone know what Simmons' subs say here?
Yeah, me and dbgtFO were going over this line on page 2, but it seems most of our posts disappeared... Anyway, you'll notice that, after Boo is released, Gohan says: 「どうしようもないってほどでもなさそうですよ... [...] ...実力さえだしきれれば...」 Kinda makes it sound like he hadn't used his true power yet, right?
Piccolo Daimao wrote:Does the original version still have Pui Pui say that the planet has a gravity ten times that of Earth and he grew up there?
Indeed.
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Re: Strength Checker

Post by p123 » Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:07 pm

Yea I think the Gohan line would be referring to Buu reaching full power, we all know Gohan just said he couldn't reach his full power/true ability etc. But I'm no expert on translations so Ima shut up ....


Yes, exactly Herms, that specific thing on Base Gotenks Pre is exactly what you said it was. It is later contradicted, but perhaps it could help us give a sort of range on his strength anyhow. The Buu Saga really needs nearly every single quote seeing as how the differing theories are so wildly inconsistent. This list covered so much though I'm talking 99th percentile, who exactly was the one to ask for the lines or did you just assign chapters to different individuals and they picked them out?



Ok so I updated the list now I think I found four....


1) Kuririn/Vegeta on Freeza's 2nd Form Powered Up vs Piccolo Weights...

" They are even, wait , no he's stronger. "

Something like that, Vegeta confirming that Piccolo W/weights is very close in power to Freeza 2nd form Powered Up, but Piccolo is a tad stronger.

( This one I'm not 100% sure if it was in there or not, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't included going to check over it again though, only read through it once but I'm sure I will be more and more familiar with everything very soon!)



2) Trunks on SSJ Vegeta / Initial Semi Cell

Already discussed...


3) Kuririn/Yamcha on Base Gotenks Pre Rosat.


4) We might need to go through everyone of Piccolo's statements regarding Gotenks vs Buu in the Rosat, I'm not sure, but I will look over it again. But I think you got the important ones up..


5) Vegetto on his own strength.

I'm suprised at myself that I'm this strong... Cmon make me use full power...


These would be helpful as well...



I'm going to go through the list again today to double check if I got anything wrong on my list....

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Re: Strength Checker

Post by dbgtFO » Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:55 pm

So here's the link to Chibi Mystic Gohan's conversation with me from the previous page.
http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopi ... 8&start=25
Damn, I hate that glitch..

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Re: Strength Checker

Post by Senzu_Bean » Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:07 pm

:shock: Amazing work, Herms. I guess this is that work you PMed me about a few months ago, right?

P.S.: You apparently forgot Vegeta's comment on Gohan when he is Super Saiyan 2 against Kibito.

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Re: Strength Checker

Post by Herms » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:14 pm

OK, got all sorts of typos and additions taken care of.
Senzu_Bean wrote:P.S.: You apparently forgot Vegeta's comment on Gohan when he is Super Saiyan 2 against Kibito.
Do you mean this one:

Chapter: 444 (DBZ 250), P7.1-4
Gohan: “Well, I’ve become a Super Saiyan. Now what? Is it alright if I fight like this?”
Kibito: “…Wh-what tremendous power…I can’t believe he’s a being of the lower world!”
Vegeta: “…Hmph…That bastard, he was far, far better when he killed Cell. It’s because he slacked off in his training during peacetime…”
Kaioshin: “…No, even so this is magnificent energy, more so than I imagined…I wonder if I’ll be able to stop this power…”
Goku: “…Stop it?”
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Re: Strength Checker

Post by Senzu_Bean » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:20 pm

Bah, I missed that. But this one I didn't missed - you listed Piccolo and co. reaction to when Chaotzu killed himself to try to stop Nappa but you didn't list their reactions to when Tenshinhan's Kikohon failed to do him any harm.

Anyways, again astonishing work. Congratulations!

P.S.:
Found two typos:
"14. Kuririn [#FR1#KUR]

---Initially--- [#FR1#KUR#PRE]

Chapter: 246 (DBZ 52), P2.6
Context: After completing their image training, Kuririn comments on Gohan’s strength.
Kuririn: “You’re good! You really are strong. After all, you’re got Goku’s blood and were trained by Piccolo…”

"Chapter: 273 (DBZ 79), P7.4
Context: cornered by the Ginyu Special-Squad
Kuririn: “Ve…Vegeta, so we have no choice but to fight…?”
Vegeta: “You should no that there’s no point running…At least it’s better that you two are here… Though I know its hopeless, I’m placing my hopes on the underlying strength you showed me on Earth…"

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Re: Strength Checker

Post by p123 » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:37 pm

From my recollection of the Viz

Nappa says hey don't scare me like that.

And

Vegeta says Fought like a man and died like a dog...


Also, I think Freeza's statement about how he lost power right before Goku returns from the barrier attack in which he's like Are you a zombie? Freeza remarked he could beat Goku in 30 seconds, and appears to think he killed Goku with that barrier attack. Also, Freeza later fighting evenly with Goku yet already stated to have lost power is very important.

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