Strength Checker

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

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nickzambuto
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Re: Strength Checker

Post by nickzambuto » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:54 am

Olympian wrote:Huh, I wasn`t expecting it to be that low. I know you shouldn`t listen to trolls (generally speaking) but reading how he was far stronger than Chiatzu and Yamcha because of ROF made me wonder since I never followed the character in any capacity.

I need to catch up earlier Super to see what the character is about other than being space cop.
TheUltimateNinja wrote:
Olympian wrote:So I just came across online about Toryama considering Jaco his favorite character across his many works but that got me thinking since I didn`t saw ROF when it came out or his manga.

I`m aware he likes to be considered "Elite" and he fought the Freeza army but how strong is he supposed to be?
Weaker than an adult Saiyan so probably sub-1,000.
We're currently a good... what? 40 years removed from Jaco's manga? The fact that he performed so well against Freeza's army indicates to me that he's gotten a crap ton more powerful. The Jaco from the manga couldn't fight like that.

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Re: Strength Checker

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:09 am

nickzambuto wrote:
Olympian wrote:Huh, I wasn`t expecting it to be that low. I know you shouldn`t listen to trolls (generally speaking) but reading how he was far stronger than Chiatzu and Yamcha because of ROF made me wonder since I never followed the character in any capacity.

I need to catch up earlier Super to see what the character is about other than being space cop.
TheUltimateNinja wrote:
Olympian wrote:So I just came across online about Toryama considering Jaco his favorite character across his many works but that got me thinking since I didn`t saw ROF when it came out or his manga.

I`m aware he likes to be considered "Elite" and he fought the Freeza army but how strong is he supposed to be?
Weaker than an adult Saiyan so probably sub-1,000.
We're currently a good... what? 40 years removed from Jaco's manga? The fact that he performed so well against Freeza's army indicates to me that he's gotten a crap ton more powerful. The Jaco from the manga couldn't fight like that.
I seriously doubt he improved all that much. Besides, Freeza's army was said to be pathetic compared to before and back then most of his men could be destroyed by Gohan and Kuririn who were sub-2,000.

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Re: Strength Checker

Post by nickzambuto » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:40 am

TheUltimateNinja wrote:
nickzambuto wrote:
Olympian wrote:Huh, I wasn`t expecting it to be that low. I know you shouldn`t listen to trolls (generally speaking) but reading how he was far stronger than Chiatzu and Yamcha because of ROF made me wonder since I never followed the character in any capacity.

I need to catch up earlier Super to see what the character is about other than being space cop.
TheUltimateNinja wrote: Weaker than an adult Saiyan so probably sub-1,000.
We're currently a good... what? 40 years removed from Jaco's manga? The fact that he performed so well against Freeza's army indicates to me that he's gotten a crap ton more powerful. The Jaco from the manga couldn't fight like that.
I seriously doubt he improved all that much. Besides, Freeza's army was said to be pathetic compared to before and back then most of his men could be destroyed by Gohan and Kuririn who were sub-2,000.
So if Raditz is representative of the average saiyan, that would mean most saiyans fit between 1,200 to 1,500, and Jaco seemed absolutely positive that he stood no chance versus just about any full grown saiyan. So it's fair to assume that Jaco was significantly weaker than 1,200, at the time of his own manga.

Could Freeza's army really have weakened so much, that not only does someone significantly weaker than 1,200 surpass them all, but he surpasses them all by such leaps and bounds that he can literally fight hundreds of them at once singlehandedly, and not even break a sweat?

Keep in mind, despite their vast power advantage over every member of the army, the sheer numbers they were facing put some serious sweat on both Kururin and Tenshinhan. I think Kururin actually almost died. Yet when it was all over, Jaco was the only one who outright refused a senzu bean, because he apparently didn't lose any stamina during that battle whatsoever. Even Piccolo and Gohan both took senzu beans.

Now does this indicate Jaco is stronger than everybody? No, he's an eccentric weirdo and also an unknown alien, so maybe some combination of arrogance and stamina being his specialty are what lead to him refusing a senzu bean. But during that battle, I don't see him as any weaker overall than Kururin. There is even a section where the two outright fight back to back, and Jaco is just as fast and effective as Kururin.

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Re: Strength Checker

Post by Olympian » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:15 pm

From that description and given how the rest of the cast looked more tired or blown out than Jaco did, I`m thinking his forte is stamina? It is possible that between his appearances he became that strong but on the other hand I don`t see much about Freeza`s army in terms of raw power other than landing hits after tiring figthers with sheer numbers that translates into any especific value.
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Re: Strength Checker

Post by nickzambuto » Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:24 am

5. Son Gohan, Grandpa [#DRA#GRA]
Chapter: 8, P6.5-6
Yamcha: “Son Gohan is such a master that he’s said to be unsurpassed in all the various forms of martial arts…”
Oolong: “E-even I’ve heard of him…[Goku's] grandpa is really famous!”

I think this quote deserves some discussion, because it's extremely interesting. Every other translation I've seen of this scene says something more to the effect of "Gohan is the greatest martial artist ever." However, the way Herms translated it seems to say something more, that not only was Gohan the best martial artist overall, but in every single form of martial arts, he was the best. That means he had mastered every form of martial arts, and in each one, he was the best.

He was better at Judo than the best Judo fighter, he was better at Karate than the best Karate fighter, he was better at Kung Fu than the best Kung Fu fighter, and he was better at Boxing than the best Boxer, etc.

That's a lot more significant than just being the best overall. It's actually an insane proposition, that Gohan could possibly specialize in each form of martial arts to that degree. And the best part is, despite this quote appearing in the beginning of the series, it never gets contradicted. Gohan was more skilled than Tao based off their showings versus Goku, and Tao and Tsurusennin are probably relative. Gohan was also stated to be more skilled than Gyumao... Guymao?... G-Goyoam... G-G... fuck it, Ox King. He was stated to be more skilled than Ox King. That leaves only Kamesennin as somebody notable from that generation (because obviously Tenshinhan and etc weren't around yet when Yamcha made that statement) and since Kamesennin's strength was variable (he seemed to be out of shape at the 21st Budokai, definitely inferior to Gohan, but then got much stronger for the 22nd, but then again who is to say Gohan wasn't also out of shape during his brief appearance and his prime would be much more) this statement about Gohan being unsurpassed in all forms of martial arts isn't really contradicted.

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Re: Strength Checker

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:16 pm

Herms wrote:...
Herms, i think i found two errors...
Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P3.1-2
Context: as Gohan remembers Goku’s advice to get angry
Gohan: “I-I am angry…! I’m angry, but…[it’s not] like it was ba-back then…”
This is on chapter 459 (DBZ 265), not chapter 458.
Chapter: 345 (DBZ 151), P2.6
Context: after Vegeta asks No.20 why he says they have no chance of victory
No.20: “No matter how much you’re stronger than imagined…At that level, you absolutely cannot win against an android…
Shouldn't this be "The androids"? I mean, Vegeta just clobbered an android. Unless this is a typo from Mr Toriyama himself?
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Re: Strength Checker

Post by MechaTrunks » Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:58 am

I think I have found 2 relevant quotes not translated in the guide regarding the power of the fighters:

1. Is Freeza's dialogue at chapter 323, after he defeats Goku's kamehame: in my translation's version of the manga he says: "I should leave this planet quickly, if I'm stuck in the explosion I'll lose even more power".

2. Is at chapter 366, the TV gives the number of people Cell had to absorb to increase his power enough to surpass A17 and kami-piccolo.

It would be great to have those quotes translated with the same accuracy as the rest of the guide!

Regards!

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Re: Strength Checker

Post by Juanpadb1997 » Sun May 14, 2023 6:41 pm

I was checking and I couldn't find a translation for what cell says when gohan starts to get angry, does he really mention something about the size of gohan's ki?

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