Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
Gog wrote:
In GT the Super Saiyan multiplier only doubles your strength.
Proof?
Then that means that Gohan did not in fact train. Seriously you just cannot explain Vegeta's performance against him then.
Gohan did in fact train; Son Gohan
He transformed when fighting with Goten after Goten had been taken over by Baby!! It seems that even in times of peace, he hasn’t neglected his training. The differences in Gohan’s facial expressions before and after transforming are the most intense out of any warrior!!-Excerpt from GT Perfect Files that can be found right here on Kanzenshuu.
Of course if SS3 Goku was being toyed around by Baby Vegeta in a weaker form does that not imply that SS3 Goku is in fact weaker than Majuub who managed to give trouble to a stronger version of Baby Vegeta,
If Baby Vegeta was able toy with SSJ3 Goku in a weaker form, but Uub was able to prove challenge to Baby Vegeta in a stronger form. Wouldn't that make Uub stronger than SSJ3 Goku?
SSJ Vegeta who was capable of going toe to toe with Ultimate Gohan, and Gohan himself?
You can go on YT right now and watch Vegeta beat both Gohan and Goten in GT.
In the Japenese version of GT when Goku transforms into Super Saiyan against General Rildo, General Rildo comments that his strength doubled.
He transformed when fighting with Goten after Goten had been taken over by Baby!! It seems that even in times of peace, he hasn’t neglected his training. The differences in Gohan’s facial expressions before and after transforming are the most intense out of any warrior!!-Excerpt from GT Perfect Files that can be found right here on Kanzenshuu.
Then that's inconsistent with what has been shown in GT.
If Baby Vegeta was able toy with SSJ3 Goku in a weaker form, but Uub was able to prove challenge to Baby Vegeta in a stronger form. Wouldn't that make Uub stronger than SSJ3 Goku?
Yes, yes it would mean Uub is stronger than SS3 Goku.
You can go on YT right now and watch Vegeta beat both Gohan and Goten in GT.
Still inconsistent with what has been stated in the guide books.
Gog wrote:
In the Japenese version of GT when Goku transforms into Super Saiyan against General Rildo, General Rildo comments that his strength doubled.
But even so, Goku is still above SSJ3 tier in base, Goku's comment of General Rildo's power being greater than Buu's, being able to fight Uub who is a Kid Buu reincarnation in base, and simultaneously beating both Super Saiyans Gohan and Goten. Now don't say Uub isn't SSJ3 level, because after all he's a Kid Buu reincarnation and his purpose of training with Goku was to reach his full potential. So it would make perfect sense for his full potential to be at the level of SSJ3.
Then that's inconsistent with what has been shown in GT.
How? I mean if it's in the guidebook it's kinda irrefutable, that's the only concrete information you will able to get without speculation. Dragon Ball is full of inconsistencies that's one of the reason these guidebooks were created in the first place seemingly.
Yes, yes it would mean Uub is stronger than SS3 Goku.
Than my point stands, Uub is above SSJ3 tier, though Uub wasn't able to harm Super 17, though Goku was able to in SSJ1. So therefore SSJ1 GT Goku>>>SSJ3.
Last edited by SaiyanGod117 on Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
But even so, Goku is still above SSJ3 tier in base, Goku's comment of being General Rildo's power being greater than Buu's, being able to fight Uub who is a Kid Buu reincarnation in base, and simultaneously beating both Super Saiyans Gohan and Goten. Now don't say Uub isn't SSJ3 level, because after all he's a Kid Buu reincarnation and his purpose of training with Goku was to reach his full potential.
How? I mean if it's in the guidebook it's kinda irrefutable, that's the only concrete information you will able to get without speculation. Dragon Ball is full of inconsistencies that's one of the reason these guidebooks were created in the first place seemingly.
Than my point stands, Uub is above SSJ3 tier, though Uub wasn't able to harm Super 17, though Goku was able to SSJ1. So therefore SSJ1 GT Goku>>>SSJ3.
Then that is simply an inconsistent showing of strength. Which means you can't use it seriously in a strength debate. Especially considering that it contradicts previous showings of power. So my point still stands SSJ3 Goku >> SSJ1 GT Goku
Than my point stands, Uub is above SSJ3 tier, though Uub wasn't able to harm Super 17, though Goku was able to SSJ1. So therefore SSJ1 GT Goku>>>SSJ3.
Then that is simply an inconsistent showing of strength. Which means you can't use it seriously in a strength debate. Especially considering that it contradicts previous showings of power. So my point still stands SSJ3 Goku >> SSJ1 GT Goku
You can believe what you want to believe, even though it's objectively false.
SaiyanGod117 wrote: Than my point stands, Uub is above SSJ3 tier, though Uub wasn't able to harm Super 17, though Goku was able to SSJ1. So therefore SSJ1 GT Goku>>>SSJ3.
Then that is simply an inconsistent showing of strength. Which means you can't use it seriously in a strength debate. Especially considering that it contradicts previous showings of power. So my point still stands SSJ3 Goku >> SSJ1 GT Goku
You can believe what you want to believe, even though it's objectively false.
Gog wrote:
Then that is simply an inconsistent showing of strength. Which means you can't use it seriously in a strength debate. Especially considering that it contradicts previous showings of power. So my point still stands SSJ3 Goku >> SSJ1 GT Goku
You can believe what you want to believe, even though it's objectively false.
Peak ssj Blue Goku and peak ssjb Vegeta vs Buuhan with all of DBZ and DB absorbed 8 times over!(including all movies and filler, excluding Battle of God's, Resurrection F and any immortality he would gain from a character (I.e when he absorbs garlic jr, he deosnt get his immortality) also he can only use Guldo's time-stop for 5-10 seconds).
Current Super Gohan vs EoS GT Gohan
SSJ2 Vegeta(GT) vs SSJ2 Vegeta(Super) -- No SSJB
SSJ3 GT Goku(Adult) vs SSJ3 Super Goku
GT Trunks vs Super Trunks -- SSR is restricted
AvatarReiko wrote:Current Super Gohan vs EoS GT Gohan
SSJ2 Vegeta(GT) vs SSJ2 Vegeta(Super) -- No SSJB
SSJ3 GT Goku(Adult) vs SSJ3 Super Goku
GT Trunks vs Super Trunks -- SSR is restricted
1.GT Gohan, perfect files imply he Trained and got stronger, super Gohan so far isn't near as strong as his mystic form, imo.
2.Hard to say, But I'd definitely Go for super Vegeta.
3. I actually consider them pretty near for a good section of super base wise( i have more than enough evidence to place GT Goku's base above at least Buuhan) and I am certain Goku didn't just become as powerful as a ssjg in his base, first of all he was in ssj when he said he felt no difference so it's at least enough to be near it in ssj, there are a lotta inconsistentsies that contradict him being that strong nd manga Goku can Go ssjg, meaning he didn't absorb it into his base, he just Got a boost from it, at least in the manga. Anyway Super Goku wins since GT Gokus's Kid Body can't hold ssj3 as well.
4.Super trunks Godstomps, GT Trunks isn't that strong and he's a main character, while super trunks ssj2 is on par with super Goku's ssj3 and his ssjrage form is extremely powerful.EDIT: didn't notice the prompt said ssjrage was restricted, anyway super Trunks stomps anyway.
SaiyanGod117 wrote:Super Android 17 vs Goku Black
Equalized stats for both, but only for the start
Super Android 17 can't absorb God Ki, and Goku Black gets progressively stronger through the match until he unlocks Super Saiyan Rose. After that there's no way in hell Super Android 17 can win.
This assumption makes no sense and Goku Black has mortal Ki too and it seems in manga/anime that Black could only unlock Rosé after engaging a battle with a Saiyan.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
SaiyanGod117 wrote:Super Android 17 vs Goku Black
Equalized stats for both, but only for the start
Super Android 17 can't absorb God Ki, and Goku Black gets progressively stronger through the match until he unlocks Super Saiyan Rose. After that there's no way in hell Super Android 17 can win.
This assumption makes no sense and Goku Black has mortal Ki too and it seems in manga/anime that Black could only unlock Rosé after engaging a battle with a Saiyan.
Well then Goku Black figures out that Super 17 adsorbs normal Ki, and over the course of the battle he gets progressively stronger until he finally unlocks SSR. Also Goku Black was only capable of getting Rose when he trained.
Gog wrote:Well then Goku Black figures out that Super 17 absorbs normal Ki, and over the course of the battle he gets progressively stronger until he finally unlocks SSR. Also Goku Black was only capable of getting Rose when he trained.
When he trained? Goku Black get stronger through Zenkais yes, but in the anime implies that he only achieved Rosé after the fight he had with Goku and in the manga when he first experienced the power of SSJB Vegeta.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
Gog wrote:Well then Goku Black figures out that Super 17 absorbs normal Ki, and over the course of the battle he gets progressively stronger until he finally unlocks SSR. Also Goku Black was only capable of getting Rose when he trained.
When he trained? Goku Black get stronger through Zenkais yes, but in the anime implies that he only achieved Rosé after the fight he had with Goku and in the manga when he first experienced the power of SSJB Vegeta.
Goku Black got stronger through pain. But he only got Rose when he trained in the future after his battle in the past with Goku. And the Super Manga he had to get strong enough to unlock Rose through Zenkais.
Gog wrote:Goku Black got stronger through pain. But he only got Rose when he trained in the future after his battle in the past with Goku. And the Super Manga he had to get strong enough to unlock Rose through Zenkais.
Getting stronger by Zenkai and by being hurt is the same thing, buddy. And he didn't trained, after returning to the future, he collapses from his injuries after his fight with Goku before regaining his composure. He test his powers, notes the increase and then integrate Goku's fighting style into his own.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
Gog wrote:Goku Black got stronger through pain. But he only got Rose when he trained in the future after his battle in the past with Goku. And the Super Manga he had to get strong enough to unlock Rose through Zenkais.
Getting stronger by Zenkai and by being hurt is the same thing, buddy. And he didn't trained, after returning to the future, he collapses from his injuries after his fight with Goku before regaining his composure. He test his powers, notes the increase and then integrate Goku's fighting style into his own.
And that's how he gets stronger, which does not include having to be beat up by Saiyans. So my original point stands Goku Black fights against Super 17 and over the course of the battle he gets strong enough that he kills the Super Android.
- Raditz wins since he's more intelligent and can think of an strategy to defeat the Saibaman.
- Goku without kaioken can win only if he makes an strategy (like cutting his tail) since Raditz is too strong for him. However, pulling out a simple kaioken can make him the final easy victory.
- Discounting inmortality, Raditz wins since Goku and Piccolo were able to fight and beating Garlic Jr together, while Raditz was dominating both of them throughout all the fight.
- Piccolo Daimao and Kami are just too weak to stand a chance against Raditz. Goku and Piccolo were way stronger than Kami, and were only able to win by using strategies and plans.
