The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:50 am

dragon boss z wrote:It was confirmed he used weighted clothes in the U6 tournament.
When? I don't remember that. The closest implication to that i remember is Goku thinking Piccolo has no chance against Frost before he removes his weights.
Gohan was breathing heavily while Piccolo wasn't.
C'mon, it was for like a second. When Goku arrives he's completely fine. I would blame a poor stamina for this instead of a power gap. Slacking off does screw stamina more than anything else. Piccolo also breathed badly for a while after the fight IIRC.
FnF Frieza was still stronger than Frost.
How? Freeza fights evenly with Goku, and a even stronger Goku fought evenly with Assault Form Frost.
I think I remember which line you are talking about, but if I could get a scan that would be nice.
Herms:
Chapter: 309 (DBZ 115), P3.2-3
Freeza: “You seem far stronger than I thought. I’m a little surprised. To think that there was someone in this world above Captain Ginyu…But you’re no match for me.”


Viz:
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

On Viz Freeza seems to imply the Z Fighters were stronger than Ginyu too ("I didn't think anyone else surpassed Captain Ginyu" though it's possible Freeza was refering to himself too. The original dialogue from Herms definitely implies Goku is the first to surpass Ginyu, though.
Imo Krillin might not of been stronger than Tao or baba Goku.
Impossible. Kuririn and Yamcha were confident on winning the Budokai despite seeing Goku's power 3 years ago, and Roshi actually agreed they might win. Goku said his match against Kuririn was the funniest he ever had as well, implying Kuririn was a better match than Tao was.
I mean those lines are just too unclear and it is just Goku guessing anyways, hence he said "might" win. And clearly that line was completely false anyways as even if we ignore super Goku could of stomep Uub with one hit as a ssj3.
I think the "might" is because Oob actually needed to be provoked to show his power, pretty much like Gohan. Without his latent power he's just a powerful kid.

Probably Goku wanted to fight the tournament in base. I mean, he never bothered to transform against Oob yet he confirmed Oob is Boo's reincarnation.
Ya, but since Frieza almost never transforms the chance of Shin to be watching at the time of him powering up are low. It seemed like he wasn't even watching Frieza fight Goku and that was Frieza's most important fight.
He almost never transformed after he invented the forms, but we don't know when he invented. It could go either way, but i'm willing to say Shin was aware of Freeza's true power. It makes the most sense on a narrative POV.
I agree that it is most likely him talking about final form Frieza from a writing perspective, especially at the time. I'm just saying it could easily be retconned to him talking about first form Frieza. Also Shin wasn't actually talking about himself, he was talking about the other supreme kais who were actually strong enough to make Buu want to absorb them. And speaking of that, the fact that each universe having 5 supreme kais being retconned to only having 1 happened, anything could be retconned at this point, especially this considering Shin never said which form of Frieza.

but currently I believe
Frieza(namek)<semi perfect Cell<=>ssj Gohan (RoF)<=>Shin<perfect Cell
Yeah it could be a retcon, Shin's been so powerless these days i wouldn't be surprised if it's implied he's Raditz level or something similiar. I just think it might be the other way around and Freeza being stronger than Base Saiyans was a retcon as well.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:04 am

Dyspo's Super Maximum Light Speed Mode vs. Future Zamasu

Round 1 - No Immortality

Round 2 - Immortality turn on

Rules:

No outside help

Who wins?
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:05 am

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: When? I don't remember that. The closest implication to that i remember is Goku thinking Piccolo has no chance against Frost before he removes his weights.
In the anime Piccolo drops them on the ref and he can't get up.
In the manga they break the ground
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
How? Freeza fights evenly with Goku, and a even stronger Goku fought evenly with Assault Form Frost.
Champa said frost was no match for final form Frieza, and in the manga Goku talked as if Frost wasn't on the level of RoF Frieza, since he said if you train you could get stronger like him.

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Herms:
Chapter: 309 (DBZ 115), P3.2-3
Freeza: “You seem far stronger than I thought. I’m a little surprised. To think that there was someone in this world above Captain Ginyu…But you’re no match for me.”


Viz:
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

On Viz Freeza seems to imply the Z Fighters were stronger than Ginyu too ("I didn't think anyone else surpassed Captain Ginyu" though it's possible Freeza was refering to himself too. The original dialogue from Herms definitely implies Goku is the first to surpass Ginyu, though.
Ya it's a bit weird.
Impossible. Kuririn and Yamcha were confident on winning the Budokai despite seeing Goku's power 3 years ago, and Roshi actually agreed they might win. Goku said his match against Kuririn was the funniest he ever had as well, implying Kuririn was a better match than Tao was.
But Goku's tournament strength is lower than his kill strength, so it is highly possible that Goku didn't even fight all out in the baba tournament, and we know for a fact he held back heavily on Krillin. And not only did he fight Tao outside of a tournament setting, Tao put up a better fight than every person in the Baba tournament except Gohan, who knew Goku's moves.
I could see Krillin being above Tao, but I think it would at least be close.
Probably Goku wanted to fight the tournament in base. I mean, he never bothered to transform against Oob yet he confirmed Oob is Boo's reincarnation.
I meant considering he could push base Goku he had to be Buu's reincarnation. No regular human could be even close to that strong even if base Goku was still namek tier.
He almost never transformed after he invented the forms, but we don't know when he invented. It could go either way, but i'm willing to say Shin was aware of Freeza's true power. It makes the most sense on a narrative POV.
I agree.
Yeah it could be a retcon, Shin's been so powerless these days i wouldn't be surprised if it's implied he's Raditz level or something similiar. I just think it might be the other way around and Freeza being stronger than Base Saiyans was a retcon as well.
I agree. Even I thought that the base saiyans could of been above Frieza, but the lines from BoG and Super make it pretty clear the writers are trying to say pre ritual base Goku was below Frieza. It did not seem to be presented as a joke or that Goku was suppressed. I feel like the stupid line about Frieza being the best ssj Goku could do in Super came from people not accepting the first line so they added another one to solidify it.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:59 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:Dyspo's Super Maximum Light Speed Mode vs. Future Zamasu

Round 1 - No Immortality

Round 2 - Immortality turn on

Rules:

No outside help

Who wins?
- Future Zamasu was below SsjB tier, but not by far. If SsjB Goku was 10, he was a 6/7. Btw, Dyspo was actually ringing out True Golden Freeza, so he surely wins against Zamasu.

- Zamasu. No matter what Dyspo does, he's immortal and thus can't be defeated.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:21 pm

Zamasu55 wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:Dyspo's Super Maximum Light Speed Mode vs. Future Zamasu

Round 1 - No Immortality

Round 2 - Immortality turn on

Rules:

No outside help

Who wins?
- Future Zamasu was below SsjB tier, but not by far. If SsjB Goku was 10, he was a 6/7. Btw, Dyspo was actually ringing out True Golden Freeza, so he surely wins against Zamasu.

- Zamasu. No matter what Dyspo does, he's immortal and thus can't be defeated.
I feel like Frieza was about to do something before Gohan stepped in. I mean logically he should of been able to do an AOE attack to get Dyspo off of him. As for Zamasu being SSB tier I would take that with a grain of salt considering he was shown to be more on ssj2 Trunk's level who got stomped by ssj3 Goku but could all of a sudden keep up with SSB because of plot. SSR Trunks was SSB tier, but SSR Trunks could stomp future Zamasu. Even ssj2 Trunk could of won if Zamasu wasn't immortal.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Noah » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:31 pm

New match (Based on Gohan statement on the last Super episode):

- Ultimate Gohan vs. Golden Freeza
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Berserker1921 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:46 am

Noah wrote:New match (Based on Gohan statement on the last Super episode):

- Ultimate Gohan vs. Golden Freeza
Frieza bitch slaps him. The only reason Gohan did better then Frieza against dyspo was because dyspo was trapped. Couldn't use the full extent of his speed. Dyspo is easily ssj God level as is gohan. Frieza is blue level.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Berserker1921 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:50 am

New battle

Currnet Goku, Current Vegeta, Frieza, Toppo, Hit, and Jiren (40% power only) vs every single god of destruction. One at a time and the warriors can not heal or rest between battles. No Ultra instinct and Hit is allowed to using killing techniques. Can they finish the tournament of gods?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:19 am

Berserker1921 wrote:New battle

Currnet Goku, Current Vegeta, Frieza, Toppo, Hit, and Jiren (40% power only) vs every single god of destruction. One at a time and the warriors can not heal or rest between battles. No Ultra instinct and Hit is allowed to using killing techniques. Can they finish the tournament of gods?
It's hard to say, because we don't know how strong are the Gods compared to each other. In the manga, they're all even bar three of them (Vermouth, Beerus and Quitela), but in the anime we don't really know.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Helios518 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:40 am

Berserker1921 wrote:New battle

Currnet Goku, Current Vegeta, Frieza, Toppo, Hit, and Jiren (40% power only) vs every single god of destruction. One at a time and the warriors can not heal or rest between battles. No Ultra instinct and Hit is allowed to using killing techniques. Can they finish the tournament of gods?
Impossible to say rn. We don't know what 40% Geran looks like. Geran for all we know, could only be moderately stronger than most GoDs or way stronger even 40% craps on strongest GoD. We also don't know strong GoDs are compared to current god tiers.
Why I use "Geran" instead of "Jiren"

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ahill1 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:48 am

Yakon vs Android #17

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:01 pm

ahill1 wrote:Yakon vs Android #17
Yakon eats #17 alive IMO. Shin, who's dimensions above Piccolo, who was #17's equal before training a year on Rosat, admited inferiority to Yakon via asking to team up on him. I think even Pocus stomps on even #16 here.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Noah » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:21 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:I think even Pocus stomps on even #16 here.
Are you kidding? So you're implying that Base Vegeta > #16? That makes no sense, Base Saiyans did not become stronger than 100% FP Freeza.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:00 pm

ahill1 wrote:Yakon vs Android #17
17 stomps. Even if Yakon tried to absorb his energy he would eventually blow up since 17 has infinite energy. Yakon probably can't break through his barrier either. Even base Goku would of won if they were on an even playing field.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:57 pm

Noah wrote:Are you kidding? So you're implying that Base Vegeta > #16? That makes no sense, Base Saiyans did not become stronger than 100% FP Freeza.
I think the several implications from Z hold more weight than Beerus' words here. That wouldn't be the first time an old character is hold in a higher degree than he should be, after all.
dragon boss z wrote:Even base Goku would of won if they were on an even playing field
Dunno about that, Gohan asked to team up to beat Yakon.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:25 pm

dragon boss z wrote:
Herms:
Chapter: 309 (DBZ 115), P3.2-3
Freeza: “You seem far stronger than I thought. I’m a little surprised. To think that there was someone in this world above Captain Ginyu…But you’re no match for me.”


Viz:
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

On Viz Freeza seems to imply the Z Fighters were stronger than Ginyu too ("I didn't think anyone else surpassed Captain Ginyu" though it's possible Freeza was refering to himself too. The original dialogue from Herms definitely implies Goku is the first to surpass Ginyu, though.
Ya it's a bit weird.
I think Freeza compliments Goku and still claims superiority in an attempt to lure Goku to his side, which of course doesn’t work. It doesn’t have to mean it’s an implication that Vegeta and the others didn’t surpass Ginyu, he was just not interested in them.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:32 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Dunno about that, Gohan asked to team up to beat Yakon.
Imo base Gohan<Yakon<=base Goku.
Yakon had a power of 800 kili which according to v-jump is a power level of 40 mil which makes sense considering 200-300 kili could destroy a planet or two.
40 mil is right around where I think base Goku is but quite a bit above where I have base Gohan. Goku went ssj so he could see in the dark but beforehand he was able to dodge Yakon's moves in base and land a hit. All the evidence seems to point to Yakon being base tier imo, and even if base Goku was really above Frieza, Yakon doesn't have a great power set and is stupid enough to lose to 17 and Frieza.
Hugo Boss wrote:
dragon boss z wrote:
Herms:
Chapter: 309 (DBZ 115), P3.2-3
Freeza: “You seem far stronger than I thought. I’m a little surprised. To think that there was someone in this world above Captain Ginyu…But you’re no match for me.”


Viz:
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

On Viz Freeza seems to imply the Z Fighters were stronger than Ginyu too ("I didn't think anyone else surpassed Captain Ginyu" though it's possible Freeza was refering to himself too. The original dialogue from Herms definitely implies Goku is the first to surpass Ginyu, though.
Ya it's a bit weird.
I think Freeza compliments Goku and still claims superiority in an attempt to lure Goku to his side, which of course doesn’t work. It doesn’t have to mean it’s an implication that Vegeta and the others didn’t surpass Ginyu, he was just not interested in them.
Ya that makes sense to me.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ahill1 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:52 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
dragon boss z wrote:
I think Freeza compliments Goku and still claims superiority in an attempt to lure Goku to his side, which of course doesn’t work. It doesn’t have to mean it’s an implication that Vegeta and the others didn’t surpass Ginyu, he was just not interested in them
Wouldn't be mentioning that Goku surpassed the other warriors like Vegeta, Piccolo serve as a better compliment than mentioning the outdated Ginyu then?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dragonball0900 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:24 pm

ahill1 wrote:Yakon vs Android #17
Yakon is somewhat above Base Goku, but not to the point where he can reach Frieza, who is way below Android 17 as we know. Android 17 wins with a stomp, easily.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Noah » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:18 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:I think the several implications from Z hold more weight than Beerus' words here. That wouldn't be the first time an old character is hold in a higher degree than he should be, after all.
Like which? Vegeta being cocky that he could win a tournament without becoming SSJ with Piccolo and 18 participating? When he showed to be somewhat impressed that Kaioshin can deal with Freeza easily?
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