The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Analytic]

EoZ Goku could kill Pan by breathing so I don't see why bringing him up helps your case.

Based on what? Do you have an exclusive copy of the manga that shows a fight between Goku and Pan?

We don't know how much Pan have trained with Goku and how much potential she has (only taking into account the original manga), and it's not a strech to argue that, because there's no source providing otherwise.

You're correct that there's no explicit evidence of Pan's strength or potential, but it's just a logical conclusion to come to based on the aforementioned facts of her being a Saiyan/Earthling hybrid and being the child of the most powerful unfused character (going by just the original manga).

To clarify, I'm not saying Pan is necessarily as powerful or more powerful than Perfect Cell (though I do believe she is), I'm just refuting the claims of that being such an unreasonable belief, which many seem to be suggesting.

Perfect Cell battle power is not revelant when we take Super into account, for years fans still thought that Base Saiyans were far from that level, even in EoZ.

Even disregarding Super (which I already do), I believe that Base Saiyans far surpassed that level based on the evidence provided by GreatSaiyaman123.

Goku: "You’re exactly the person I thought you were. As amazin’ as I expected. But you don’t know how to use your power."

Goku claims that Oob is exactly what he was expecting (a fighter strong enough to win the Budokai - which would mean stronger than Good Boo). Goku matched Oob in base form. Saying that Oob doesn't know how to use his power doesn't have to mean that Oob was weaker than expected, he just can't use it at will. He needs to get angry.

[dragon boss z]

I'm actually responding to the chain were you said EoZ Goku was still weaker than Freeza.

I never said that. I said BoG Goku.
BoG Goku<Frieza<<<EoZ Goku

Pan indeed is far, far weaker than Goku, but this wouldn't make her weaker than Freeza. There is a lot of room between Freeza and EoZ Goku.

Yes. It there is no reason to put Pan there. Until she proves she is stronger than a character she should be treated as weaker. There is no reason to put a practically fearless base saiyan toddler above Frieza.

He doesn't start with all of his power, but he can acess it via rage boosts. Gohan was doing the same as a kid the whole time.

We don't know if we can access all of it. I'm not saying he can't, but we don't know if he can either. I'm sure if he trained he would access it pretty quickly though.

EoZ Goku could kill Pan by breathing so I don't see why bringing him up helps your case.

Based on what? Do you have an exclusive copy of the manga that shows a fight between Goku and Pan?

I mean it's just common sense. One is a master martial artist who has proven himself for years by defeating strong opponents, and the other is a practically fearless toddler.

[Analytic]

One is a master martial artist who has proven himself for years by defeating strong opponents

Yet 9-year-old Gohan with nowhere near as much training or experience far outstripped Goku at the Cell Games, even disregarding Super Saiyan 2. "Logic" and age have a very minuscule role in determining power levels when it comes to Dragon Ball.

[dragon boss z]

Yet 9-year-old Gohan with nowhere near as much training or experience far outstripped Goku at the Cell Games, even disregarding Super Saiyan 2. "Logic" and age have a very minuscule role in determining power levels when it comes to Dragon Ball.

Gohan had been training seriously for years and went through many tough battles at that point. Even the. I agree it's hard to believe he surpassed Goku, but at least he earned it, and it was shown to us. When Gohan was 4 his power level was 1 and when his full power was unleashed it was around 1,300. Also we have to take into consideration how strong EoZ Goku is. He has trained with Whis for years and should have ultra instinct mastered completely by that point. There is no way I could see Pan lasting more than one strike from a serious Goku at that point.

[Analytic]

Gohan had been training seriously for years and went through many tough battles at that point. Even the. I agree it's hard to believe he surpassed Goku, but at least he earned it, and it was shown to us. When Gohan was 4 his power level was 1 and when his full power was unleashed it was around 1,300. Also we have to take into consideration how strong EoZ Goku is. He has trained with Whis for years and should have ultra instinct mastered completely by that point. There is no way I could see Pan lasting more than one strike from a serious Goku at that point.

I should've clarified earlier, but I was excluding new material when I posted my match. I only consider EoZ Goku in base to be marginally stronger than Good Boo.

Also, like I said before, I'm aware that there's no proof of Pan's strength. I'm not trying to force anyone to view her as strong, just refuting the sentiment of her having to be weak just because she is young and hasn't had as much experience.

[dragon boss z]

Also, like I said before, I'm aware that there's no proof of Pan's strength. I'm not trying to force anyone to view her as strong, just refuting the sentiment of her having to be weak just because she is young and hasn't had as much experience.

I mean anything is possible, but that's not how I debate when it comes to versus battles. I make my decisions based off of feats and statements. Pan easily beat a large human, can fly around the planet relatively quickly, and can beat a rusty base Goten. That's enough to where I can see here being above saiyan or even some Namek saga characters, but once you get to first form Frieza there is not enough evidence to give a good reason as to why she would win. And definitely not Cell. If Pan is stronger than or even as strong as ssj2 Gohan at the age of 4 it makes what the other characters work hard for look meaningless.

[Zamasu55]

Some new fights:

- Nuova Shenron and Eis Shenron vs Dyspo (Super Maximum Light Speed Mode) and Toppo (can't become God of destruction)

- Beerus (can't destroy anyone) vs Hit (ToP), SsjB KKx20 Goku (from ep. 123 onwards), SsjB Evolution Vegeta, Dyspo (Super Maximum Light Speed Mode), God Toppo and 17

- Ssj2 Majin Vegeta vs Lssj Broly (Movie 10) and Super Perfect Cell

- Piccolo (ToP) vs Bojack (transformed)

- Future Zamasu vs Koichiarator

- Buutenks, Hirudegarn (final form) and Janemba (final form) vs Magetta, Botamo and Ssj Cabbe

[Helios518]

Some new fights:

- Nuova Shenron and Eis Shenron vs Dyspo (Super Maximum Light Speed Mode) and Toppo (can't become God of destruction)

- Beerus (can't destroy anyone) vs Hit (ToP), SsjB KKx20 Goku (from ep. 123 onwards), SsjB Evolution Vegeta, Dyspo (Super Maximum Light Speed Mode), God Toppo and 17

- Ssj2 Majin Vegeta vs Lssj Broly (Movie 10) and Super Perfect Cell

- Piccolo (ToP) vs Bojack (transformed)

- Future Zamasu vs Koichiarator

- Buutenks, Hirudegarn (final form) and Janemba (final form) vs Magetta, Botamo and Ssj Cabbe

1. Pride Troopers are god tier and shown way better feats than even Omega. Pride Troopers 10/10

2. If UI Goku is truly only possibly stronger than Beerus. Than Beerus would takes this with minor difficulty.

3. SSJ2 Majin Vegeta stalemated with SSj2 Goku and said that he is stronger than SSJ2 Cell Games Gohan (who stalemated SP Cell). Majin Vegeta wins on his own but Broli makes this a lot easier.

4. Before Piccolo did any ToP training, he easily defeated a SSJ2 Gohan. Bojack gets murked by even SSJ2 Cell Games Gohan. Piccolo win low difficulty.

5. Cabba and Magetta are DBS SSJ tier and DBS Base tier is around Super Boo tier. Team DBS wins unless Bootenks absorbs them.

[Berserker1921]

Some new fights:

- Nuova Shenron and Eis Shenron vs Dyspo (Super Maximum Light Speed Mode) and Toppo (can't become God of destruction)

- Beerus (can't destroy anyone) vs Hit (ToP), SsjB KKx20 Goku (from ep. 123 onwards), SsjB Evolution Vegeta, Dyspo (Super Maximum Light Speed Mode), God Toppo and 17

- Ssj2 Majin Vegeta vs Lssj Broly (Movie 10) and Super Perfect Cell

- Piccolo (ToP) vs Bojack (transformed)

- Future Zamasu vs Koichiarator

- Buutenks, Hirudegarn (final form) and Janemba (final form) vs Magetta, Botamo and Ssj Cabbe

1. Beerus is implied to be above or equal to Jiren's strength. So he stomps on everyone. Unlike Jiren holding back, he'd probably cut loose, if he was annoyed. He wins with low to mild difficulty.

2. Broly in dbz movie 10 is a little above super perfect cell. So he has no ha de against Vegeta. And he and cell wouldn't work together. So Vegeta destroys them both.

3. Piccolo wins easily.

4. I don't know who that second guy is.

5. Team villain. None of the heroes are aggressive enough to go for the kill. Buu would end up betraying everyone and absorbing them all.

[Berserker1921]

New battle

Suicide Squad

1. Golden Frieza
2. Cell
3. Buuhan (no absorbing, candy beams, or healing others)
4. Black
5. Janemba
6. SS 17
7. Bebi Vegeta (no possessing)
8. Omega Shenron
9. Broly
10. Darbura

This team of Villains are forced to participate in ToP. Will they succeed? How far do they make it?

[Zamasu55]

Some new fights:

- Nuova Shenron and Eis Shenron vs Dyspo (Super Maximum Light Speed Mode) and Toppo (can't become God of destruction)

- Beerus (can't destroy anyone) vs Hit (ToP), SsjB KKx20 Goku (from ep. 123 onwards), SsjB Evolution Vegeta, Dyspo (Super Maximum Light Speed Mode), God Toppo and 17

- Ssj2 Majin Vegeta vs Lssj Broly (Movie 10) and Super Perfect Cell

- Piccolo (ToP) vs Bojack (transformed)

- Future Zamasu vs Koichiarator

- Buutenks, Hirudegarn (final form) and Janemba (final form) vs Magetta, Botamo and Ssj Cabbe

1. Beerus is implied to be above or equal to Jiren's strength. So he stomps on everyone. Unlike Jiren holding back, he'd probably cut loose, if he was annoyed. He wins with low to mild difficulty.

No, he isn't.

[kn83]

New battle

Suicide Squad

1. Golden Frieza
2. Cell
3. Buuhan (no absorbing, candy beams, or healing others)
4. Black
5. Janemba
6. SS 17
7. Bebi Vegeta (no possessing)
8. Omega Shenron
9. Broly
10. Darbura

This team of Villains are forced to participate in ToP. Will they succeed? How far do they make it?

They would get rid of the fodder fighters easily. All except Black, Janemba and Frieza (Top 3) would get stomped by Anizara. The top 3 would defeat Aniraza together easily, but all 3 of them would be easily annihilated by Kefla or God Toppo, let alone Jiren.

Although, maybe Black could unlock UI like Goku did and win it for the team.

[jeffbr92]

1. Golden Frieza
2. Cell
3. Buuhan (no absorbing, candy beams, or healing others)
4. Black
5. Janemba
6. SS 17
7. Bebi Vegeta (no possessing)
8. Omega Shenron
9. Broly
10. Darbura

This team of Villains are forced to participate in ToP. Will they succeed? How far do they make it?

I would say they would have a chance to win if you allowed Boo to use his skills, even though Jiren is the strongest... I can also see Boo getting pretty strong by absorbing Toppo and/or Kefla and even though he fails, he could still leave a tiny little piece of him in the ring until the time runs out.

[dragon boss z]

They would get rid of the fodder fighters easily. All except Black, Janemba and Frieza (Top 3) would get stomped by Anizara.

Omega Shenron is stronger than Janemba.

[kn83]

They would get rid of the fodder fighters easily. All except Black, Janemba and Frieza (Top 3) would get stomped by Anizara.

Omega Shenron is stronger than Janemba.

No he is not. Janemba feat wise is multiversal (breaking the boundary between life and death, reality-warping the entire U7 macrocosm, etc.) while no one in GT is universal. Also, remember that the movies have different powerscaling than canon.

[Sandubadear]

They would get rid of the fodder fighters easily. All except Black, Janemba and Frieza (Top 3) would get stomped by Anizara.

Omega Shenron is stronger than Janemba.

No he is not. Janemba feat wise is multiversal (breaking the boundary between life and death, reality-warping the entire U7 macrocosm, etc.) while no one in GT is universal. Also, remember that the movies have different powerscaling than canon.

Omega's stronger in power level wise, but Janemba has magical, reality-altering powers. Even then I still believe Omega would win against Janemba.

[jeffbr92]

Omega Shenron power was a threat the to the whole universe hence why Goku needed to collect the energy from all the other planets in order to kill him. Janemba was easily disposed by Super Gogeta who is leagues below SSJ4 Goku.

[kn83]

Omega Shenron power was a threat the to the whole universe hence why Goku needed to collect the energy from all the other planets in order to kill him. Janemba was easily disposed by Super Gogeta who is leagues below SSJ4 Goku.

1. Omega Shenron was only stated to destroy the universe overtime via chain reaction. Buuhan can do the same thing and he's weaker than SSJ1 GT Goku.

2. The movies don't powerscale to the series, nor do they to each other. For example, Tree of Might takes place around the Saiyan arc, yet base Goku power level was stated by Tullece to be 30,000 while in canon it was over 8,000.

3. Movie 12 Gogeta >>>>>> GT Gogeta based on these facts.

[jeffbr92]

Feats ≠ Power level

Cooler made a cameo in GT so they are likely from the same continuity, so as Goku using the Dragon Fist, a move from M13. It's illogical to assume M12 Gogeta would be weaker than GT Gogeta.

[Hellspawn28]

Battle of the final bosses:

23 TB Piccolo vs. Kid Buu vs. Super Yi Xing Long vs. Jiren

Rules:
Equal Power Levels
No outside help
No candy ray
No absorbing

Who wins?