The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Dragon Ball Gus » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:21 pm

Super Saiyan Blue Kefla vs Vegetto Blue (Future Trunks Arc)

Now, we can all agree Vegetto Blue would stomp SSJ2 Kefla. And some people might argue he might stomp her using SSJ2 himself. But if Kefla actually manages to achieve Super Saiyan Blue herself, would she gain an advantage, would she and Vegetto be fairly close in power, or would Vegetto still just utterly stomp her?
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by PFM18 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:42 am

Dragon Ball Gus wrote:Super Saiyan Blue Kefla vs Vegetto Blue (Future Trunks Arc)

Now, we can all agree Vegetto Blue would stomp SSJ2 Kefla. And some people might argue he might stomp her using SSJ2 himself. But if Kefla actually manages to achieve Super Saiyan Blue herself, would she gain an advantage, would she and Vegetto be fairly close in power, or would Vegetto still just utterly stomp her?
ToP arc Vegetto? It would be even since their bases are about even.
FT arc? Kefla wins because their nases would be > Goku and Vegeta

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by jeffbr92 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:43 pm

- Jiren vs. Cell (equal power/unlimited stamina)
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Pantalones » Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:29 am

With equal power and unlimited stamina, I'd think Cell would win thanks to his regeneration. Especially since unlimited stamina would mean he can keep regenerating without losing any power (since his regeneration is basically still Piccolo-style, just with the benefits of Freeza's "survive almost anything" trait and the Saiyans' near-death boosts mixed in.)

Basically... if Cell gets an arm punched off he can just grow it back in seconds, while if Jiren gets an arm punched (or Kienzaned, or Makankosappoed, etc.) off, it's gone for good.

Cell's also an extremely skilled fighter as long as he's up against someone equal or lesser than him (as we saw with SSj2 Gohan, he loses his mind if he starts getting dramatically overpowered, thanks to his whole idea of being "perfect.") Jiren's not a terribly unskilled fighter himself, but his whole "thing" is overwhelming power, not skill or special techniques. We never really see Jiren fight an equal, but considering that he's ultimately defeated by being worn out in a fight against a near-equal (Goku with the complete Ultra Instinct) and then tag-teamed by a few people who would normally be vastly weaker than him, I suspect he wouldn't seem as impressive without the power advantage he had. The unlimited stamina will help him for sure, but without any power advantage I don't think he'd win against someone like Cell.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:11 pm

What if the Tournament of Power happened before Super? Or after?

DBZ team

Goku (Buu saga)
Vegeta (Buu saga)
Ultimate Gohan (Buu saga)
Piccolo (Buu saga)
Trunks (post RoSaT)
Goten (post RoSaT)
18 (Buu saga)
Krillin (Buu saga)
Tenshinhan (Buu saga)
Yamcha (Buu saga).

Shin gives Goku and Vegeta potaras, so they can become Vegetto.
Trunks and Goten can of course fuse, but Ssj3 Gotenks lasts only 5 minutes.

How far would this team go in the ToP?

DBGT team
Goku (Shadow Dragons saga)
Vegeta (Shadow Dragons saga)
Super Uub
Gohan (Shadow Dragons saga)
Trunks (Shadow Dragons saga)
Goten (Shadow Dragons saga)
Piccolo (Shadow Dragons saga, revived for one day)
18 (Shadow Dragons saga)
Pai Ku Han (revived for one day)
Super Perfect Cell (revived for one day)

Vegeta cannot turn Ssj4, as Bulma's machines would be against the rules. So, no Ssj4 Gogeta.
Trunks and Gotenks can fuse, but Ssj3 Gotenks still only lasts 5 minutes.
Pai Ku Han, after the Cell Games, was slightly stronger than Ssj FP Goku. After so many years (at least 10), considering that he trains daily it the Other World) he'd at least be as strong as Super Buu. This is his current level of power.
Super Perfect Cell is as strong as he was during the Super 17 saga, so much weaker than Base Goku.

How far would this team go in the ToP?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by jeffbr92 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:40 pm

Pantalones wrote:With equal power and unlimited stamina, I'd think Cell would win thanks to his regeneration. Especially since unlimited stamina would mean he can keep regenerating without losing any power (since his regeneration is basically still Piccolo-style, just with the benefits of Freeza's "survive almost anything" trait and the Saiyans' near-death boosts mixed in.)

Basically... if Cell gets an arm punched off he can just grow it back in seconds, while if Jiren gets an arm punched (or Kienzaned, or Makankosappoed, etc.) off, it's gone for good.

Cell's also an extremely skilled fighter as long as he's up against someone equal or lesser than him (as we saw with SSj2 Gohan, he loses his mind if he starts getting dramatically overpowered, thanks to his whole idea of being "perfect.") Jiren's not a terribly unskilled fighter himself, but his whole "thing" is overwhelming power, not skill or special techniques. We never really see Jiren fight an equal, but considering that he's ultimately defeated by being worn out in a fight against a near-equal (Goku with the complete Ultra Instinct) and then tag-teamed by a few people who would normally be vastly weaker than him, I suspect he wouldn't seem as impressive without the power advantage he had. The unlimited stamina will help him for sure, but without any power advantage I don't think he'd win against someone like Cell.
Interesting, thanks for that elaborated answer.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by sunsetshimmer » Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:28 pm

Zamasu55 wrote:What if the Tournament of Power happened before Super? Or after?

DBZ team

Goku (Buu saga)
Vegeta (Buu saga)
Ultimate Gohan (Buu saga)
Piccolo (Buu saga)
Trunks (post RoSaT)
Goten (post RoSaT)
18 (Buu saga)
Krillin (Buu saga)
Tenshinhan (Buu saga)
Yamcha (Buu saga).

Shin gives Goku and Vegeta potaras, so they can become Vegetto.
Trunks and Goten can of course fuse, but Ssj3 Gotenks lasts only 5 minutes.

How far would this team go in the ToP?

DBGT team
Goku (Shadow Dragons saga)
Vegeta (Shadow Dragons saga)
Super Uub
Gohan (Shadow Dragons saga)
Trunks (Shadow Dragons saga)
Goten (Shadow Dragons saga)
Piccolo (Shadow Dragons saga, revived for one day)
18 (Shadow Dragons saga)
Pai Ku Han (revived for one day)
Super Perfect Cell (revived for one day)

Vegeta cannot turn Ssj4, as Bulma's machines would be against the rules. So, no Ssj4 Gogeta.
Trunks and Gotenks can fuse, but Ssj3 Gotenks still only lasts 5 minutes.
Pai Ku Han, after the Cell Games, was slightly stronger than Ssj FP Goku. After so many years (at least 10), considering that he trains daily it the Other World) he'd at least be as strong as Super Buu. This is his current level of power.
Super Perfect Cell is as strong as he was during the Super 17 saga, so much weaker than Base Goku.

How far would this team go in the ToP?
DBZ team would never get pass Kefla, Anilaza and Toppo unless Vegito was able to reach SSJ3 but it still wouldn't make them win i think.
And still no chance against Jiren.

GT team would lose to Jiren power-wise without SSJ4 Vegeta. The best chance they have is dragon fist but it would kill Jiren so it's pointless.
The only chance is making him fall using tactics or turn him into chocolate (Majuub) and throw him from arena.
Goku SSJ4 should handle Kefla if he had power he got against Syn Shenron (limit break).
With SSJ4 Vegeta/Gogeta and revived Baby instead of Pikkon or Cell they would totally make it through.
Note that they could always ask Porunga to bring back Vegeta's tail so he would be able to turn SSJ4.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by SuperSaiyanMastaDon » Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:04 pm

M10 Broly vs Super Saiyan 2 Goku, Gohan, Vegeta.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:46 pm

SuperSaiyanMastaDon wrote:M10 Broly vs Super Saiyan 2 Goku, Gohan, Vegeta.
Goku was able to beat Broly in hell with Paikuhan's help, so with the help of two SSJ2s he can definitely take Broly down.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Analytic » Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:50 pm

Cyborg 35 (Universe Survival arc) vs. Fusion Zamau

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by PFM18 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:07 pm

Analytic wrote:Cyborg 35 (Universe Survival arc) vs. Fusion Zamau
Cyborg 35 because they are about even in strength but they have infinite stamina

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DB▪Magnum-Expert » Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:58 am

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Zamasu55 wrote:What if the Tournament of Power happened before Super? Or after?

DBZ team

Goku (Buu saga)
Vegeta (Buu saga)
Ultimate Gohan (Buu saga)
Piccolo (Buu saga)
Trunks (post RoSaT)
Goten (post RoSaT)
18 (Buu saga)
Krillin (Buu saga)
Tenshinhan (Buu saga)
Yamcha (Buu saga).

Shin gives Goku and Vegeta potaras, so they can become Vegetto.
Trunks and Goten can of course fuse, but Ssj3 Gotenks lasts only 5 minutes.

How far would this team go in the ToP?

DBGT team
Goku (Shadow Dragons saga)
Vegeta (Shadow Dragons saga)
Super Uub
Gohan (Shadow Dragons saga)
Trunks (Shadow Dragons saga)
Goten (Shadow Dragons saga)
Piccolo (Shadow Dragons saga, revived for one day)
18 (Shadow Dragons saga)
Pai Ku Han (revived for one day)
Super Perfect Cell (revived for one day)

Vegeta cannot turn Ssj4, as Bulma's machines would be against the rules. So, no Ssj4 Gogeta.
Trunks and Gotenks can fuse, but Ssj3 Gotenks still only lasts 5 minutes.
Pai Ku Han, after the Cell Games, was slightly stronger than Ssj FP Goku. After so many years (at least 10), considering that he trains daily it the Other World) he'd at least be as strong as Super Buu. This is his current level of power.
Super Perfect Cell is as strong as he was during the Super 17 saga, so much weaker than Base Goku.

How far would this team go in the ToP?
DBZ team would never get pass Kefla, Anilaza and Toppo unless Vegito was able to reach SSJ3 but it still wouldn't make them win i think.
And still no chance against Jiren.

GT team would lose to Jiren power-wise without SSJ4 Vegeta. The best chance they have is dragon fist but it would kill Jiren so it's pointless.
The only chance is making him fall using tactics or turn him into chocolate (Majuub) and throw him from arena.
Goku SSJ4 should handle Kefla if he had power he got against Syn Shenron (limit break).
With SSJ4 Vegeta/Gogeta and revived Baby instead of Pikkon or Cell they would totally make it through.
Note that they could always ask Porunga to bring back Vegeta's tail so he would be able to turn SSJ4.
Do you have any evidence for why GT is that strong?
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by sunsetshimmer » Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:31 am

DB▪Magnum-Expert wrote:
Do you have any evidence for why GT is that strong?
All characters except Piccolo and #18 are stronger in GT in their base forms.
Base forms of Goku and Vegeta are actually very weak. SSJ Goku couldn't beat Ultimate Gohan at all and was still struggling with SSJ Gohan disguised as Saiyaman. He also couldn't beat Future Trunks SSJ2 without going SSJ2 by himself at least. The real race starts with gods vs SSJ4.
Base GT Gohan was confirmed to be at least as powerful as Ultimate Gohan from Z, making even his SSJ stronger than DBS Ultimate Gohan (and please don't tell my DBS Gohan got over 50 times stronger than hiz DBZ self in few hours of training with Piccolo when he barely could turn SSJ before that).
Majuub was basically DBZ Vegito level so he would do very well against most of opponents except the few strongest ones.

Now with SSJ4 vs SSJB they are mostly said to be in the same tier.
But SSJ4 Goku was confirmed to be able to survive sun's temperature and that was before he got powered-up greatly beyond his limits.
DBS Goku needed protection suit to go into Earth's core which still isn' as hot as sun.
And SSJB was pretty much struggling against everyone in series making him seem not that strong.

Except Kaioken, i don't see SSJB Goku winning with SSJ4 Goku at all.
SSJ4 Goku has Kamehameha X10. It's not really kaioken, but it's like Kaioken X10 Kamehameha except doesn't drain as much energy. It's also good.

Now if we take Vegeta right after Shadow Dragons arc, he still didn't have time to master SSJ4 so he would be in trouble against SSJB Vegeta for sure so he might not be able to beat Toppo.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by JazzMazz » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:41 am

Zamasu55 wrote:What if the Tournament of Power happened before Super? Or after?

DBZ team

Goku (Buu saga)
Vegeta (Buu saga)
Ultimate Gohan (Buu saga)
Piccolo (Buu saga)
Trunks (post RoSaT)
Goten (post RoSaT)
18 (Buu saga)
Krillin (Buu saga)
Tenshinhan (Buu saga)
Yamcha (Buu saga).

Shin gives Goku and Vegeta potaras, so they can become Vegetto.
Trunks and Goten can of course fuse, but Ssj3 Gotenks lasts only 5 minutes.

How far would this team go in the ToP?

DBGT team
Goku (Shadow Dragons saga)
Vegeta (Shadow Dragons saga)
Super Uub
Gohan (Shadow Dragons saga)
Trunks (Shadow Dragons saga)
Goten (Shadow Dragons saga)
Piccolo (Shadow Dragons saga, revived for one day)
18 (Shadow Dragons saga)
Pai Ku Han (revived for one day)
Super Perfect Cell (revived for one day)

Vegeta cannot turn Ssj4, as Bulma's machines would be against the rules. So, no Ssj4 Gogeta.
Trunks and Gotenks can fuse, but Ssj3 Gotenks still only lasts 5 minutes.
Pai Ku Han, after the Cell Games, was slightly stronger than Ssj FP Goku. After so many years (at least 10), considering that he trains daily it the Other World) he'd at least be as strong as Super Buu. This is his current level of power.
Super Perfect Cell is as strong as he was during the Super 17 saga, so much weaker than Base Goku.

How far would this team go in the ToP?
My humble opinion, neither of team would really have any chance of winning the TOP.

The Buu saga iterations of the characters, would probably be in the lower echelon of fighters in the tournament, since outside of Ultimate Gohan and Gotenks, I don't think any of them could really be considered heavy hitters by the standards of the characters in Super.

I also believe the GT cast would also be mostly fodder at the hands of the other universes, with the exceptions of Vegeta, Uub and Goku. As for the others, I think none of them would be strong enough to stand any sort of chance against even the middle tier fighters of the TOP. For example, I think Obuni would be able to independently deal with every other fighter other than the three mentioned above, fairly easily, and Obuni's pretty much a no one in the grand scheme of the tournament. I say this, because Obuni was more than capable of fighting against a massively powered up Ultimate Gohan for, at the very least, a brief period of time. That puts him at very least above Super Buu, who couldn't even touch a pre-Super power-up ultimate Gohan. None of the aforementioned characters are shown to be stronger than Super Buu. I certainly know there is speculation around people like Gohan being stronger than they were in Z, but I think that's a load of crap, considering he doesn't use his ultimate form, WHICH IS THE MOST POWERFUL STATE HE CAN ACHIEVE!

Overall, I think both the GT and Buu saga interpretations of the characters would end up getting completely decimated in the TOP. They just don't have the raw power to come through on this front. Goku is nuts in GT, but I simply don't see how he can carry the entire goddamn team by himself when you have guys like Jiren, Hit, Toppo and Dyspo around that can all give him a good run for his money.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DB▪Magnum-Expert » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:49 am

Hopefully you'll reply to this
sunsetshimmer wrote: Base forms of Goku and Vegeta are actually very weak. SSJ Goku couldn't beat Ultimate Gohan at all and was still struggling with SSJ Gohan disguised as Saiyaman. He also couldn't beat Future Trunks SSJ2 without going SSJ2 by himself at least. The real race starts with gods vs SSJ4.
That's some huge ass fallacy you got there. Goku vs Gohan is an outlier, much like Goku vs Basil is. Ssj2 Trunks never did force Goku to transform into Ssj2, that's contradictory to What was proven when Goku fought Goku black. Goku Black implied That a heavily suppressed Goku is far above Trunks, so your point is null. Using these two pieces where one is an outlier and the other is a misinformant doesn't prove your point. Base Goku > SsjG Goku BoG
sunsetshimmer wrote:Base GT Gohan was confirmed to be at least as powerful as Ultimate Gohan from Z, making even his SSJ stronger than DBS Ultimate Gohan (and please don't tell my DBS Gohan got over 50 times stronger than hiz DBZ self in few hours of training with Piccolo when he barely could turn SSJ before that).
Yes Gohan got stronger. That's your utter headcanon to say he didn't. Frieza got stronger in 4 months to God tier levels, Future Trunks Ssj2 in episode 57 is implied to have topped God Tier reaches. So your opinion is irrelevant here unless you show me one reason why Gohan didn't jump levels. The narrator even says that Gohan rivaled Pre ToP SsjB Goku and he threatened Golden Frieza. What the show says > your opinion. The burden of proof is on you to show me why he didn't get stronger
sunsetshimmer wrote:Majuub was basically DBZ Vegito level so he would do very well against most of opponents except the few strongest ones.
Um ok? I do understand that Majuub is that strong (I have him far above that, so there goes that), but that level is absolute fodder to SsjG Goku BoG Arc.
sunsetshimmer wrote:Now with SSJ4 vs SSJB they are mostly said to be in the same tier.
Said to be? Who said that? All these claims you're throwing and I'm not seeing one single evidence for any of them
sunsetshimmer wrote:But SSJ4 Goku was confirmed to be able to survive sun's temperature and that was before he got powered-up greatly beyond his limits.
DBS Goku needed protection suit to go into Earth's core which still isn' as hot as sun.
That's unquantifiable. Surviving heat is unnecessary in a battle in DBZ. Second, when Goku in DBS came out of Earth's core, he wasn't wearing any suit. So that also puts your argument aside.
sunsetshimmer wrote:And SSJB was pretty much struggling against everyone in series making him seem not that strong.
Seem not that strong? Or is it the fact that everyone is that strong? Or maybe he was holding back like What was shown in the show?
sunsetshimmer wrote:Now if we take Vegeta right after Shadow Dragons arc, he still didn't have time to master SSJ4 so he would be in trouble against SSJB Vegeta for sure so he might not be able to beat Toppo.
Everyone in DBS got stronger throughout the Tournament to the point that Episode 123 Goku and Vegeta's Final Flash from Episode 122 are above Episode 116 Ultra Instinct Goku.

I am yet to see the evidence you're talking about.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Champa The Destroyer » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:28 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
DB▪Magnum-Expert wrote:
Do you have any evidence for why GT is that strong?
All characters except Piccolo and #18 are stronger in GT in their base forms.
Base forms of Goku and Vegeta are actually very weak. SSJ Goku couldn't beat Ultimate Gohan at all and was still struggling with SSJ Gohan disguised as Saiyaman. He also couldn't beat Future Trunks SSJ2 without going SSJ2 by himself at least. The real race starts with gods vs SSJ4.
Base GT Gohan was confirmed to be at least as powerful as Ultimate Gohan from Z, making even his SSJ stronger than DBS Ultimate Gohan (and please don't tell my DBS Gohan got over 50 times stronger than hiz DBZ self in few hours of training with Piccolo when he barely could turn SSJ before that).
Majuub was basically DBZ Vegito level so he would do very well against most of opponents except the few strongest ones.

Now with SSJ4 vs SSJB they are mostly said to be in the same tier.
But SSJ4 Goku was confirmed to be able to survive sun's temperature and that was before he got powered-up greatly beyond his limits.
DBS Goku needed protection suit to go into Earth's core which still isn' as hot as sun.
And SSJB was pretty much struggling against everyone in series making him seem not that strong.

Except Kaioken, i don't see SSJB Goku winning with SSJ4 Goku at all.
SSJ4 Goku has Kamehameha X10. It's not really kaioken, but it's like Kaioken X10 Kamehameha except doesn't drain as much energy. It's also good.

Now if we take Vegeta right after Shadow Dragons arc, he still didn't have time to master SSJ4 so he would be in trouble against SSJB Vegeta for sure so he might not be able to beat Toppo.
If you have Majuub at Super Vegito level, then GT is fodder compared to Super. Super Vegito was said to be weaker than the Suppressed Beerus who beat SSJ3 Goku, and by the time of the TOP, Goku without Ultra Instinct is hundreds, maybe thousands of times stronger than Beerus was on King Kai's Planet

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by jeffbr92 » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:34 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:
SuperSaiyanMastaDon wrote:M10 Broly vs Super Saiyan 2 Goku, Gohan, Vegeta.
Goku was able to beat Broly in hell with Paikuhan's help, so with the help of two SSJ2s he can definitely take Broly down.
When?
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Champa The Destroyer » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:36 pm

Beerus with Infinity Gauntlet vs Whis

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DB▪Magnum-Expert » Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:01 am

Android 17 vs Golden Frieza (Both Current, 100% healed, no prep time)
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:43 am

jeffbr92 wrote:When?
At the end of the movie, Kaio says Broly is wrecking havoc in Hell and sends Goku and Paikuhan to deal with him.
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