The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[GreatSaiyaman123]

SSJ2 Gotenks (Buu Arc) vs SSJ3 Goku (Buu Arc)

Gotenks stomps.

SSJG Goku (Manga, BoGs) vs Goku (All non godly forms, U6 Arc)

[DanielSSJ]

SSJ2 Gotenks (Buu Arc) vs SSJ3 Goku (Buu Arc)

I'd actually say that the two are about even in strength. Goku's the more capable fighter, but Gotenks has a significant stamina advantage. On the whole, I'd say that Gotenks wins three times out of five.

[apex_pretador]

Kid buu vs Frost
Kid buu vs current Piccolo
SS3 Goku (buu arc, dead body) vs current piccolo
Kid buu vs SS2 Caulifla
SS3 Gotenks (Buu arc) vs present Zamasu
Super vegetto vs Mystic Gohan (current)
SS4 Vegeta vs Bersekrer kale
Bota-Magetta vs current Frost

Jiren vs Roman reigns (not leaving this one until I get the answer)

[supercat]

Kid buu vs Frost
Kid buu vs current Piccolo
SS3 Goku (buu arc, dead body) vs current piccolo
Kid buu vs SS2 Caulifla
SS3 Gotenks (Buu arc) vs present Zamasu
Super vegetto vs Mystic Gohan (current)
SS4 Vegeta vs Bersekrer kale
Bota-Magetta vs current Frost

Jiren vs Roman reigns (not leaving this one until I get the answer)

Frost would one-shot any form of Buu, as he's probably only a few tiers below the ritually powered up, red-haired Goku that faced Beerus. This is of course going off of SSJ = ritually enhanced Goku (vs Beerus). This was after all, directly stated, so no reason to believe otherwise, or assume it was retconned.

Piccolo would one-shot all forms of Buu. The only Buu that might give him some trouble is Buuhan, but even then, I don't see why Piccolo wouldn't be able to win eventually.

Piccolo would effortlessly wreck SSJ3 Goku along with any other form of Goku prior to his big showdown with Beerus.

Present Zamasu was on par with SSJ2 Goku, who should be twice the power of the ritually powered up, red-haired Goku that faced Beerus, since Goku's SSJ form basically took on the powers of the ritually granted powers itself. So this pretty much would mean, Present Zamasu is at least twice as strong as the same Goku that fought Beerus, who is leagues above anyone from the Buu saga.

SSJ2 Goku (Future Trunks) >/= Present Zamasu > SSJ Goku = ritually powered up Goku (vs Beerus) >>>>>>>> SSJ Vegetto >>> SSJ3 Gotenks

Ultimate Gohan was a worthy contender against SSB Goku. Although Goku may have been holding back, the whole purpose of their match was to showcase how far Gohan has come. SSJ Vegetto along with the entire Buu saga would be bottom-tier fodders compared to Ultimate Gohan.

When we accept SSJ Goku = ritually powered up red-haired Goku (vs Beerus) and actually take the statement of Goku absorbing the ritual powers seriously, while disregarding fan speculations and theories like a nonexistent retcon, or Goku somehow losing his ritual powers as SSJ, or the whole two base fantasy, all of the huge power ups and introduction of powerful characters begin to make sense.

I find it so strange how fan theories and speculations are put in place just because some of these power ups seem absurd. Buu and all the other top contenders of the Buu saga are really a thing of the past as far as power goes. This really isn't any different than the powerhouses of the Android saga completely outshining the best of the Frieza saga.

[MisteryOne]

Kid buu vs Frost
Kid buu vs current Piccolo
SS3 Goku (buu arc, dead body) vs current piccolo
Kid buu vs SS2 Caulifla
SS3 Gotenks (Buu arc) vs present Zamasu
Super vegetto vs Mystic Gohan (current)
SS4 Vegeta vs Bersekrer kale
Bota-Magetta vs current Frost

Jiren vs Roman reigns (not leaving this one until I get the answer)

Frost would one-shot any form of Buu, as he's probably only a few tiers below the ritually powered up, red-haired Goku that faced Beerus. This is of course going off of SSJ = ritually enhanced Goku (vs Beerus). This was after all, directly stated, so no reason to believe otherwise, or assume it was retconned.

Piccolo would one-shot all forms of Buu. The only Buu that might give him some trouble is Buuhan, but even then, I don't see why Piccolo wouldn't be able to win eventually.

Piccolo would effortlessly wreck SSJ3 Goku along with any other form of Goku prior to his big showdown with Beerus.

Present Zamasu was on par with SSJ2 Goku, who should be twice the power of the ritually powered up, red-haired Goku that faced Beerus, since Goku's SSJ form basically took on the powers of the ritually granted powers itself. So this pretty much would mean, Present Zamasu is at least twice as strong as the same Goku that fought Beerus, who is leagues above anyone from the Buu saga.

SSJ2 Goku (Future Trunks) >/= Present Zamasu > SSJ Goku = ritually powered up Goku (vs Beerus) >>>>>>>> SSJ Vegetto >>> SSJ3 Gotenks

Ultimate Gohan was a worthy contender against SSB Goku. Although Goku may have been holding back, the whole purpose of their match was to showcase how far Gohan has come. SSJ Vegetto along with the entire Buu saga would be bottom-tier fodders compared to Ultimate Gohan.

When we accept SSJ Goku = ritually powered up red-haired Goku (vs Beerus) and actually take the statement of Goku absorbing the ritual powers seriously, while disregarding fan speculations and theories like a nonexistent retcon, or Goku somehow losing his ritual powers as SSJ, or the whole two base fantasy, all of the huge power ups and introduction of powerful characters begin to make sense.

I find it so strange how fan theories and speculations are put in place just because some of these power ups seem absurd. Buu and all the other top contenders of the Buu saga are really a thing of the past as far as power goes. This really isn't any different than the powerhouses of the Android saga completely outshining the best of the Frieza saga.

Actually, there is no reason to think that actual SS Goku is still SSG tier. After his battle with Beerus, any battle, feat or characters reaction implied him being in God tier until he turns SSB, and that has been surprisinly consistent. North Kaio first mentioned it during the ROF saga, ("Can he turn into a SSG without any other saiyans?") as well as the narrator himself, who pointed out Goku had surpassed SSG and the revived Frieza after he transformed. Then it was pointed out in this actual US saga when he turned SSB against Bergamo.

Base Goku/Vegeta/U6 saiyans are indeed top Buu saga tier however, since they showed to be above Gotenks SS3 and on par with the resurected Frieza. A stronger Mystic Gohan being on a similar level to SS2 Goku also makes sense using this scale. So yeah, the whole "they are in Boo saga level unless in Blue" is not true at all, at leazt for the anime, but at the same time there is no reason to think they are SSG tier on their SS states when people have only compared SSB to such tier.

While I agree that there should be zero problems with the new characters being way stronger than Buu saga top tier, the problem is that the anime is so inconsistent that is hard for people to see how a rusty Gohan can archieve SSG tier without training, or 18 herself can as well despite no training at all except sparring with Krillin. In my case trough, I could care less about the fucked up power scale of the anime version so is not really an issue for me.

[dragonball0900]

Kid buu vs Frost
Kid buu vs current Piccolo
SS3 Goku (buu arc, dead body) vs current piccolo
Kid buu vs SS2 Caulifla
SS3 Gotenks (Buu arc) vs present Zamasu
Super vegetto vs Mystic Gohan (current)
SS4 Vegeta vs Bersekrer kale
Bota-Magetta vs current Frost

Jiren vs Roman reigns (not leaving this one until I get the answer)

- I don't think Piccolo surpassed Kid Buu yet. Many people overrated him a lot.

- The same can be said here. Piccolo didn't surpass him yet. So Goku wins.

- I'd say Caulifla wins here.

- SSJ3 Gotenks stomps. Present Zamasu was in Goku's SSJ2 level, who would't surpass SSJ3 Gotenks even as of now.

- I will say that Super Vegito wins here. There was a really big gap between him and Buuhan, who is way stronger than Gohan. This current Gohan would already surpass or being equal to Buuhan, since Gohan should be stronger than SSJ3 Goku, but weaker than SSJ Blue Goku.

- Don't know.

- Considering that Frost is now stronger than before, chances are that he can probably be able to give Magetta a good fight, though we don't know how strong is he.

[VegetaSSJBlue]

- SSJ3 Gotenks stomps. Present Zamasu was in Goku's SSJ2 level, who would't surpass SSJ3 Gotenks even as of now.

SS2 Goku >>> Base Goku >>> SS3 Gotenks.

[dragonball0900]

- SSJ3 Gotenks stomps. Present Zamasu was in Goku's SSJ2 level, who would't surpass SSJ3 Gotenks even as of now.

SS2 Goku >>> Base Goku >>> SS3 Gotenks.

That Copy Vegeta who fought SSJ3 Gotenks probably had the power of base Vegeta (and Goku) that is saiyan beyond god, that when transforming into SSJ, it's the Blue form. With SSJ2, he's not in saiyan beyond god form, therefore, he's weaker than SSJ3 Gotenks with that form.

[VegetaSSJBlue]

- SSJ3 Gotenks stomps. Present Zamasu was in Goku's SSJ2 level, who would't surpass SSJ3 Gotenks even as of now.

SS2 Goku >>> Base Goku >>> SS3 Gotenks.

That Copy Vegeta who fought SSJ3 Gotenks probably had the power of base Vegeta (and Goku) that is saiyan beyond god, that when transforming into SSJ, it's the Blue form. With SSJ2, he's not in saiyan beyond god form, therefore, he's weaker than SSJ3 Gotenks with that form.

That state does not exist in the anime.

According to spoilers:

[spoiler]Goku turns SSG in 105.[/spoiler]

[dragonball0900]

[spoiler]Goku turns SSG in 105.[/spoiler]

I just want to know if there's proof about that, could you give me a link?

[VegetaSSJBlue]

[spoiler]Goku turns SSG in 105.[/spoiler]

I just want to know if there's proof about that, could you give me a link?

https://mobile.twitter.com/Herms98/stat ... 3937801216

[Zamasu55]

Kid buu vs Frost
Kid buu vs current Piccolo
SS3 Goku (buu arc, dead body) vs current piccolo
Kid buu vs SS2 Caulifla
SS3 Gotenks (Buu arc) vs present Zamasu
Super vegetto vs Mystic Gohan (current)
SS4 Vegeta vs Bersekrer kale
Bota-Magetta vs current Frost

Jiren vs Roman reigns (not leaving this one until I get the answer)

1- Frost gets absolutely stomped.
2- Piccolo should be around Ssj2 tier, Kid Buu's much above that.
3- See above.
4- See above.
5- Ssj3 Gotenks stomps in less than five mins.
6- Let's wait and see...
7- Kale wins, she was destroying SsjB Goku, and I don't think Vegeta can do that.
8- Bota-Magetta.

[dragonball0900]

[spoiler]Goku turns SSG in 105.[/spoiler]

I just want to know if there's proof about that, could you give me a link?

https://mobile.twitter.com/Herms98/stat ... 3937801216

Well either it could probably be referring to SSJ Blue, or maybe there are two ways to transform, into the base form (saiyan beyond god), and the God form.

[LowRyder2005]

SS2 Goku >>> Base Goku >>> SS3 Gotenks.

That Copy Vegeta who fought SSJ3 Gotenks probably had the power of base Vegeta (and Goku) that is saiyan beyond god, that when transforming into SSJ, it's the Blue form. With SSJ2, he's not in saiyan beyond god form, therefore, he's weaker than SSJ3 Gotenks with that form.

That state does not exist in the anime.

According to spoilers:

[spoiler]Goku turns SSG in 105.[/spoiler]

The state does exist, officially. What you are trying to say is that it shouldn't be any different from the base form we see everyday.

With that premise, it's worth mentioning that Goku's strength by now has been portrayed as inferior to #18's, who at most trained occasionally with Krillin.
Besides, Gotenks vs. Copy Vegeta is an outlier that already creates plain contradictions with Gohan's feats and the show's very own statements; for anyone who's been following the series somewhat attentively in regards to the power-related notions, it's very apparent the writers dropped the general idea the base form had power comparable to the Super Saiyan God ever since the Goku Black arc, while Toriyama probably started disregarding the notion altogether around the U6 arc -- which also saw the reintroduction of the regular Super Saiyan form. More or less, everything in recent memory points to the heroes belonging to a tier which is overall similar to their base forms from the Buu arc, but nothing as drastic as a many-fold increase.

It makes little sense clinging on one episode when everything that happened after in the series, for better or worse, contradicts it. I don't think anyone would argue Yamcha was stronger than Perfect Cell in the anime (because after all not a single one of the writers does), and yet it is feat that basically has same filler-esque connotations of Gotenks vs. Vegeta.

Kid buu vs Frost
Kid buu vs current Piccolo
SS3 Goku (buu arc, dead body) vs current piccolo
Kid buu vs SS2 Caulifla
SS3 Gotenks (Buu arc) vs present Zamasu
Super vegetto vs Mystic Gohan (current)
SS4 Vegeta vs Bersekrer kale
Bota-Magetta vs current Frost

Jiren vs Roman reigns (not leaving this one until I get the answer)

1- Frost gets absolutely stomped.
2- Piccolo should be around Ssj2 tier, Kid Buu's much above that.
3- See above.
4- See above.
5- Ssj3 Gotenks stomps in less than five mins.
6- Let's wait and see...
7- Kale wins, she was destroying SsjB Goku, and I don't think Vegeta can do that.
8- Bota-Magetta.

My answers as well -- with some extra lowballing for Piccolo, probably. I'd just as add another "wait and see" for Kale vs. SS4 Vegeta; I'm personally inclined to put Kale at a level comparable to Blue's as well, however, but there are sound arguments on the other side of the fence.

Regarding Roman, it depends on who's booking him.

[AvatarReiko]

MSSJ Goku vs Tired Perfect Cell (Cell games)

[Boulouki]

1. Ssj Blue Vegito (no kaioken, flying, and instant transmission, 30 mins) vs Toppo, Frieza, Hit, and Black?

2. Ssj god Broly (mini movie version) vs fused Zamasu (no immortality)?

3. Vegito (cell games) vs Fat Buu (buu saga)?

4. Super Buu vs Black (before ssj rose and getting the boost)?

1:Considering all of them are weaker or on par with ssjb kaioken goku, and Vegito is far above x2 ssjb goku's power, he takes this easily

2:Broly takes this because, He did not get hurt by neither goku nor vegeta during the whole movie, he one shotted Ssjb Vegeta. Now Fused Zamasu was damaged severely by ssjb goku, and that ssjb goku could not touch Broly god. However i believe zamasu even without the immortality is stronger than broly god, however he looks others down, and he sets himself so high, he will underestimate broly because he is a mortal and will just get caught of guard and be destroyed, now if Zamasu is serious from the get go he wins.

3:Goten and trunks are weaker than cell games goku and vegeta, so if they got Fat buu then so does Vegito.

4:Black wins, even if he becomes a candy the Vegito treatment will begin, and he is too strong to be absorbed, now if it were buuhan, it could be the other way around

[Boulouki]

[spoiler]Goku turns SSG in 105.[/spoiler]

I just want to know if there's proof about that, could you give me a link?

Nothing is 100% confirmed, here is Geekdom's Video explaining the whole situation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2HKaPN8Msk

[Boulouki]

Kid buu vs Frost
Kid buu vs current Piccolo
SS3 Goku (buu arc, dead body) vs current piccolo
Kid buu vs SS2 Caulifla
SS3 Gotenks (Buu arc) vs present Zamasu
Super vegetto vs Mystic Gohan (current)
SS4 Vegeta vs Bersekrer kale
Bota-Magetta vs current Frost

Jiren vs Roman reigns (not leaving this one until I get the answer)

1:Weird fight, considering frost is stronger than base goku, he is more powerfull than buu, but buu wins because of hacks.
2:Piccolo can compete with ultimate Gohan, and he is the smartest fighter in dragon ball, he takes this
3:Piccolo again for the above reasons
4:Buu always has a chance because he has hacks, but caulifla is just too far above him in terms of power
5:Considering the power scaling in Super has skyrocketed out of our solar syster, Ultimate gohan wins, however if it was current vegito as a ssj then i would say super vegito takes it.
6:Kale beat a suppresed ssjb kamehameha, so we can not know how strong she is, she is definetly up there but not on ssjb tier, so it could go either way
7:Bota-Magetta easily, even if Frost manages to poison botamo (since he takes no damage) there is absolutely no way he can cause damage to mageta if ssj vegeta with a final flash couldn't (Reminder Frost got bodied by ssj goku and one shotted by ssj vegeta)

[Boulouki]

1.ssb bulla vs ssj3 pan with kaioken
2.ssj cabba vs ssj caulif
3.hit vs current golden Freeza
3.current gohan vs 17

1:Bra takes this, if pan went ssj3 with kaioken she would be knocked out instantly, that and ssjb is too far away for kaioken to reach even as a ssj3
2:I would say cabba because he is more used to the form, but it could go either way
3:Hit easily, freeza does not know of time skip or any of hit's other abilities
4:I would say 17, because even though Gohan is stronger (that is what i believe but i could be wrong) he is not strong enough to end the fight quickly, the fight would drag until gohan was starting to get tired and 17 would gain the upper hand if he hadn't had it already

[SuperDragoon]

[spoiler]Goku turns SSG in 105.[/spoiler]

I just want to know if there's proof about that, could you give me a link?

Nothing is 100% confirmed, here is Geekdom's Video explaining the whole situation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2HKaPN8Msk

Actually Toshio confrirmed that SSG is returning. Geekdom's video is outdated.