The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby dragon boss z » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:17 pm

Helios518 wrote:1) So what is the largest thing DCEU Superman threw at someone in a fight?

Ya actually looking back at the fights it was all of his enemies that were throwing things, not him. Though if he was pushed to throw something heavy while there were no civilians around I don't see why he wouldn't.

2) Hmm I now remembered his fight with Zod but he usually uses that as only as a recovery from knockback or as an opener, otherwise you're not going to see him do it.
Either way I'm not debating on Kuririn vs DCEU Supes, I'm debating on how relevant travel speed and lifting strength is in a fight.
Edit: Clearing up my post.


It's not just travel speed though, Superman showed he could react to Flash's combat speed as well. When you just look at the fights in dragon ball and compare them to Superman's fights, they don't seem to be on that level until around the saiyan saga.

Here are some of the physical feats of the King Piccolo fight.

These are impressive, but I feel DCEU Superman is above that.

Here are some feats from the 23rd.


Saiyan saga


Namek saga


Looking over these I would say DCEU definitely below upper namek tier, and probably below upper saiyan saga tier as well as I don't think he can destroy solid rock with the shockwave of his punches. However I do think he has shown things above the King Piccolo fight, and I think he could most likely replicate what Goku did in the 23rd. So I would say somewhere between 23rd Goku and saiyan saga Goku, when it comes to hand to hand combat.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby GreatSaiyaman123 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:45 pm

dragon boss z wrote:Here are some of the physical feats of the King Piccolo fight.


Uh, you forgot Piccolo Daimao vaporizing the city with his Bakurikimaha.

That is reasonable via scaling. I'm just not sure because dragon ball characters tend to be on the weaker side when it comes to physical strength. Android saga Krillin and Tien couldn't even knock down Gero's metal door. If they had lets say mountain level psychical they would of knocked the entire lab right out of the mountain. And the door didn't seem like it was made out of super special material as Vegeta casually shot through it with a ki blast. Then we also have the 40 ton thing, and the 1,000 ton thing in the super manga.


Even Roshi on his first appearence could blow up a mountain, so that was inconsistent. That gate is pretty resilient, considering even Vegeta's blast only knocked it down instead of destroying it.

And Gravity feats are pretty inconsistent. Using the given 50x multiplier SSJ Goku from Boo Arc would have a lifting strength of 2,000 tons, above SSJ Vegeta from Champa Arc. Not to mention it's stated that flying while lifting weights make it harder.

However looking at striking feats, Vegeta vs Zarbon clashing made the rocks around them crumble, Zarbon smashed Vegeta into the ground making a deep crater, and Reccome was able to blow a ki blast away with just his breath. So based off of those feats and scaling I think in a physical fight DCEU Superman would probably be somewhere in the saiyan saga range.


That's because Superman, as a beginner, was unable to pull his attacks to not destroy the city

It took Superman and Zod throwing each other everywhere to destroy the city, whereas a casual blast from Nappa utterly vaporized a city. I doubt Superman is at Saiyan Saga levels.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby The Monkey King » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:09 pm

dragon boss z wrote:Looking over these I would say DCEU definitely below upper namek tier, and probably below upper saiyan saga tier as well as I don't think he can destroy solid rock with the shockwave of his punches. However I do think he has shown things above the King Piccolo fight, and I think he could most likely replicate what Goku did in the 23rd. So I would say somewhere between 23rd Goku and saiyan saga Goku, when it comes to hand to hand combat.


On the topic of Krillin vs Superman / DB character strength,

Goku with a PL of 100 was already destroying 12 inch thick steel walls:

Strength checker:
Chapter: 21, P1.2
Context: Goku and Yamcha try to escape Pilaf's prison
Pilaf: “No matter how they struggle, it’s no use! The walls of the prison are made of 300-millimeter thick steel! The roof is super-strengthened glass! Not even a cannon can break it!”
Note: Goku and Yamcha can’t dent the prison walls, but Oozaru Goku smashes them.


Daizenshuu
Ōzaru: 100
With his battle power becoming ten times its usual, he can even pulverize a 30 cm-thick steel wall. He now has the destructive power of a battleship’s main gun.


Android 8 punched commander white over the horizon


Tao throwing a stone pillar with enough force that it travels 2300km at hypersonic speeds


Saiyan spacepods are durable enough to tank country level explosions:


Gohan with a PL of 710 obliterated one with a headbutt


Raditz would slap DCEU Superman's head off.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby Helios518 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:11 pm

dragon boss z wrote:It's not just travel speed though, Superman showed he could react to Flash's combat speed as well. When you just look at the fights in dragon ball and compare them to Superman's fights, they don't seem to be on that level until around the saiyan saga.


Flash's speed (and to extension, Supes') is vaguely being FTE to casual bullet-timers which is something 22nd TB Goku could do, if it's not that version then it's definitely the Goku that fought Young Daimao.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby dragon boss z » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:14 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:Uh, you forgot Piccolo Daimao vaporizing the city with his Bakurikimaha.

But that's not a physical feat, it is a ki feat.
Even Roshi on his first appearence could blow up a mountain, so that was inconsistent. That gate is pretty resilient, considering even Vegeta's blast only knocked it down instead of destroying it.

Again, that is a ki feat. Dragon ball characters aren't on the same level with physical attacks. Just because they can blow up a mountain, city, or planet with a ki attack, doesn't mean they even come close with a punch. Frieza was planet level with ki attacks, but his physical attacks were only island level.

And Gravity feats are pretty inconsistent. Using the given 50x multiplier SSJ Goku from Boo Arc would have a lifting strength of 2,000 tons, above SSJ Vegeta from Champa Arc. Not to mention it's stated that flying while lifting weights make it harder.


I agree. But it it would still means physically they aren't nearly as strong as their ki power.

That's because Superman, as a beginner, was unable to pull his attacks to not destroy the city

It took Superman and Zod throwing each other everywhere to destroy the city, whereas a casual blast from Nappa utterly vaporized a city. I doubt Superman is at Saiyan Saga levels.


Again this is about physical strikes only. Superman can't shoot out giant ki waves so we can't even compare them like that. Nappa can't just casually destroy a city with punches either. Superman's only energy attack is his heat vision which just cuts and melts things, it doesn't explode.
If we were talking about an all out fight allowing ki attacks, I think DCEU Superman and Doomsday would be around 23rd budokai tier.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby dragon boss z » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:22 pm

The Monkey King wrote:On the topic of Krillin vs Superman / DB character strength,
Goku with a PL of 100 was already destroying 12 inch thick steel walls:
Strength checker:
Chapter: 21, P1.2
Context: Goku and Yamcha try to escape Pilaf's prison
Pilaf: “No matter how they struggle, it’s no use! The walls of the prison are made of 300-millimeter thick steel! The roof is super-strengthened glass! Not even a cannon can break it!”
Note: Goku and Yamcha can’t dent the prison walls, but Oozaru Goku smashes them.

Daizenshuu
Ōzaru: 100
With his battle power becoming ten times its usual, he can even pulverize a 30 cm-thick steel wall. He now has the destructive power of a battleship’s main gun.



Superman could easily go through steel walls and a battleship's main gun would be nothing to him.

Android 8 punched commander white over the horizon



Do we even know how strong android 8 is? For all we know his power level could be in the hundreds.

Tao throwing a stone pillar with enough force that it travels 2300km at hypersonic speeds



Tao must of been propelling the pillar with ki/flying technique, since no matter how strong he through the pillar, it should of hit the ground in seocnds. That is how physics works. If you shoot a gun, the bullet hits the ground the same time as if you dropped it from your hand.

Saiyan spacepods are durable enough to tank country level explosions:


Gohan with a PL of 710 obliterated one with a headbutt


Raditz would slap DCEU Superman's head off.


That attack from Nappa wasn't very potent though. It was just a wide spread attack that vaporized everything that wasn't very durable around it.

Helios518 wrote:
dragon boss z wrote:It's not just travel speed though, Superman showed he could react to Flash's combat speed as well. When you just look at the fights in dragon ball and compare them to Superman's fights, they don't seem to be on that level until around the saiyan saga.


Flash's speed (and to extension, Supes') is vaguely being FTE to casual bullet-timers which is something 22nd TB Goku could do, if it's not that version then it's definitely the Goku that fought Young Daimao.


Even wonder woman is a bullet timer, and she couldn't even see the Flash.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby Helios518 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:25 pm

dragon boss z wrote:
Helios518 wrote:Flash's speed (and to extension, Supes') is vaguely being FTE to casual bullet-timers which is something 22nd TB Goku could do, if it's not that version then it's definitely the Goku that fought Young Daimao.


Even wonder woman is a bullet timer, and she couldn't even see the Flash.


Mmhmm, I know. Please read my previous comment again.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby dragon boss z » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:40 pm

Helios518 wrote:
dragon boss z wrote:
Helios518 wrote:Flash's speed (and to extension, Supes') is vaguely being FTE to casual bullet-timers which is something 22nd TB Goku could do, if it's not that version then it's definitely the Goku that fought Young Daimao.


Even wonder woman is a bullet timer, and she couldn't even see the Flash.


Mmhmm, I know. Please read my previous comment again.


Yes but you were trying to scale since saying 22nd Goku was a casual bullet timer and now they are stronger, but wonder woman is also a casual bullet timer and Superman and the Flash are much faster. So basically all we know is they are faster than casual bullet timers which in the end tells us nothing.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby Berserker1921 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:34 am

These random characters from z/Gt/super fight as a team for U7 in ToP. Only against the weaker universes. So only 2,4,9,and 10 are participating. Can this team win?

1. Rildo
2. Janemba
3. Pikkon
4. Oceanus shenron
5. Olibu
6. Ginyu (in Tagonma's body. Can switch with one person only)
7. Android 16
8. Bojack
9. Devil man
10. Jaco

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby dragon boss z » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:38 am

Berserker1921 wrote:These random characters from z/Gt/super fight as a team for U7 in ToP. Only against the weaker universes. So only 2,4,9,and 10 are participating. Can this team win?

1. Rildo
2. Janemba
3. Pikkon
4. Oceanus shenron
5. Olibu
6. Ginyu (in Tagonma's body. Can switch with one person only)
7. Android 16
8. Bojack
9. Devil man
10. Jaco


Yes, they can, and most likely would win. At least as long as the other teams don't team up on them.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby apex_pretador » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:01 am

The Monkey King wrote:Goku with a PL of 100 was already destroying 12 inch thick steel walls:


Android 8 punched commander white over the horizon


Tao throwing a stone pillar with enough force that it travels 2300km at hypersonic speeds


Saiyan spacepods are durable enough to tank country level explosions:


Gohan with a PL of 710 obliterated one with a headbutt


Raditz would slap DCEU Superman's head off.

Not a single feat of them has been performed by Krillin.

Nor has Krillin outmuscled any of these characters. Using power levels is an extremely faulty scaling

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby Helios518 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:26 am

dragon boss z wrote:
Helios518 wrote:
dragon boss z wrote:

Even wonder woman is a bullet timer, and she couldn't even see the Flash.


Mmhmm, I know. Please read my previous comment again.


Yes but you were trying to scale since saying 22nd Goku was a casual bullet timer and now they are stronger, but wonder woman is also a casual bullet timer and Superman and the Flash are much faster. So basically all we know is they are faster than casual bullet timers which in the end tells us nothing.


Which is my point, both 22nd Goku and Flash are much faster than casual bullet timers. Which we could then assume they’re around the same speed range unless further evidence.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby BrolyKale » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:10 am

Spider-Man wrote:
Ki Breaker wrote:Toppo's hands vs Gohan at full power

Toppo's hands
    Kefla vs Anilaza.
    Hmm... Kefla SSJ1 is strong, but she couldn't do "much" against Goku SSJB Kaioken when he was still recovering. Kefla SSJ2 full power could kill Goku UI but her speed wasn't enough to deal with him (and he wasn't even using his full potential).

    Anilaza faced all U7 and he was doing pretty well, so I'd say Anilaza but he also has a weak spot so Kefla SSJ2 has her chances.
    Last edited by BrolyKale on Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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    Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

    Postby Ki Breaker » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:14 am

    BrolyKale wrote:
    Spider-Man wrote:
    Ki Breaker wrote:Toppo's hands vs Gohan at full power

    Toppo's hands
      Kefla vs Anilaza.
      Hmm... Kefla SSJ1 is strong, but she couldn't do "much" against Goku SSJB Kaioken when he was still recovering. Kefla SSJ2 full power could kill Goku UI but her speed wasn't enough...

      Anilaza faced all U7 and he was doing pretty well, so I'd say Anilaza but he also has a weak spot so Kefla SSJ2 has her chances.

      No, anybody vs Kefla = Kefla wins
      That's how the world works..
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      Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

      Postby BrolyKale » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:18 am

      Ki Breaker wrote:
      BrolyKale wrote:
      Spider-Man wrote:Toppo's hands
        Kefla vs Anilaza.
        Hmm... Kefla SSJ1 is strong, but she couldn't do "much" against Goku SSJB Kaioken when he was still recovering. Kefla SSJ2 full power could kill Goku UI but her speed wasn't enough...

        Anilaza faced all U7 and he was doing pretty well, so I'd say Anilaza but he also has a weak spot so Kefla SSJ2 has her chances.

        No, anybody vs Kefla = Kefla wins
        That's how the world works..
        Should I take your comment seriously? I can't really tell if you are serious or not...

        but anyway for me Anilaza looks much stronger than Kefla SSJ2, the only problem with Anilaza is his weak spot.
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        Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

        Postby Ki Breaker » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:45 am

        BrolyKale wrote:
        Ki Breaker wrote:
        BrolyKale wrote:Hmm... Kefla SSJ1 is strong, but she couldn't do "much" against Goku SSJB Kaioken when he was still recovering. Kefla SSJ2 full power could kill Goku UI but her speed wasn't enough...

        Anilaza faced all U7 and he was doing pretty well, so I'd say Anilaza but he also has a weak spot so Kefla SSJ2 has her chances.

        No, anybody vs Kefla = Kefla wins
        That's how the world works..
        Should I take your comment seriously? I can't really tell if you are serious or not...

        but anyway for me Anilaza looks much stronger than Kefla SSJ2, the only problem with Anilaza is his weak spot.

        Kefla will just powerup some more..
        Like she always does..
        Nobody is ever stronger than her and remains such after a few minutes, that's how her character functions..
        Judging by your username, you probably won't agree with this, but it's, in all honesty, a fact, one which shouldn't need any explanation..

        If we take Kefla's "gifts" out of the equation and assume her power as a constant, the one she showcased before ring out, then yes, anilaza should take this..
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        Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

        Postby BrolyKale » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:22 am

        Ki Breaker wrote:
        BrolyKale wrote:
        Ki Breaker wrote:No, anybody vs Kefla = Kefla wins
        That's how the world works..
        Should I take your comment seriously? I can't really tell if you are serious or not...

        but anyway for me Anilaza looks much stronger than Kefla SSJ2, the only problem with Anilaza is his weak spot.

        Kefla will just powerup some more..
        Like she always does..
        Nobody is ever stronger than her and remains such after a few minutes, that's how her character functions..
        Judging by your username, you probably won't agree with this, but it's, in all honesty, a fact, one which shouldn't need any explanation..

        If we take Kefla's "gifts" out of the equation and assume her power as a constant, the one she showcased before ring out, then yes, anilaza should take this..
        That's not how a VS thread works. We clearly saw the max she could do in the TOP and that's SSJ2 FP. She could probably go further (like anyone else) but not in the TOP because it didn't happen and she was going all out vs Goku UI. I base myself on what happened and not what will/could happen.
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        Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

        Postby Ki Breaker » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:59 am

        BrolyKale wrote:
        Ki Breaker wrote:
        BrolyKale wrote:Should I take your comment seriously? I can't really tell if you are serious or not...

        but anyway for me Anilaza looks much stronger than Kefla SSJ2, the only problem with Anilaza is his weak spot.

        Kefla will just powerup some more..
        Like she always does..
        Nobody is ever stronger than her and remains such after a few minutes, that's how her character functions..
        Judging by your username, you probably won't agree with this, but it's, in all honesty, a fact, one which shouldn't need any explanation..

        If we take Kefla's "gifts" out of the equation and assume her power as a constant, the one she showcased before ring out, then yes, anilaza should take this..
        That's not how a VS thread works. We clearly saw the max she could do in the TOP and that's SSJ2 FP. She could probably go further (like anyone else) but not in the TOP because it didn't happen and she was going all out vs Goku UI. I base myself on what happened and not what will/could happen.

        That's not how the vs thread works either, that's how you work in the vs thread..
        She continued pulling powers from everywhere till her last moment on the stage, not like anybody else, ever, that's a pretty broad margin we are playing with here..
        This is a defining trait of her personality, her character, and should be taken into consideration whenever discussions about her are made..

        This is getting kinda off topic, so here's one

        Maji kayo vs Majin Buu
        Both Bloodlusted
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        Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

        Postby BrolyKale » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:05 am

        Ki Breaker wrote:
        BrolyKale wrote:
        Ki Breaker wrote:Kefla will just powerup some more..
        Like she always does..
        Nobody is ever stronger than her and remains such after a few minutes, that's how her character functions..
        Judging by your username, you probably won't agree with this, but it's, in all honesty, a fact, one which shouldn't need any explanation..

        If we take Kefla's "gifts" out of the equation and assume her power as a constant, the one she showcased before ring out, then yes, anilaza should take this..
        That's not how a VS thread works. We clearly saw the max she could do in the TOP and that's SSJ2 FP. She could probably go further (like anyone else) but not in the TOP because it didn't happen and she was going all out vs Goku UI. I base myself on what happened and not what will/could happen.

        That's not how the vs thread works either, that's how you work in the vs thread..
        She continued pulling powers from everywhere till her last moment on the stage, not like anybody else, ever, that's a pretty broad margin we are playing with here..
        This is a defining trait of her personality, her character, and should be taken into consideration whenever discussions about her are made..

        This is getting kinda off topic, so here's one

        Maji kayo vs Majin Buu
        Both Bloodlusted
        Ok, Kefla >> all dbs characters if you want.
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        Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

        Postby Ki Breaker » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:11 am

        BrolyKale wrote:
        Ki Breaker wrote:
        BrolyKale wrote:That's not how a VS thread works. We clearly saw the max she could do in the TOP and that's SSJ2 FP. She could probably go further (like anyone else) but not in the TOP because it didn't happen and she was going all out vs Goku UI. I base myself on what happened and not what will/could happen.

        That's not how the vs thread works either, that's how you work in the vs thread..
        She continued pulling powers from everywhere till her last moment on the stage, not like anybody else, ever, that's a pretty broad margin we are playing with here..
        This is a defining trait of her personality, her character, and should be taken into consideration whenever discussions about her are made..

        This is getting kinda off topic, so here's one

        Maji kayo vs Majin Buu
        Both Bloodlusted
        Ok, Kefla >> all dbs characters if you want.

        If I wanted this handy trait of her wouldn't exist but sadly that's not how things work..

        Let me take a step back and reorganize what I said, taking into consideration her boosts should be a thing, it's a real phenomenon associated with her character's core concept, but that doesn't actually mean she can beat anyone, Zeno for example, beating him is not even a concept introduced yet in Dragonball world, as that doesn't see to be possible to do with power alone, many other characters exist with such intricacies associated with them she can't beat, anilaza isn't one of them..
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