The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[theherodjl]

Silver Surfer vs Buu Saga Goku

Surfer easily. On his board at top speed, SS is as fast as the degree of speed that Manga Jiren used to travel through space, and Surfer also has matter/energy manipulation abilities that Goku has no confirmed resistance or immunity to. Surfer could zoom behind Boo arc Goku before he even said the first syllable of "kamehameha" then either suck out all the energy in Goku's body or make his organs explode. Whatever SS chooses to do, Goku either gets KO'd or dies.

[Champa The Destroyer]

Thanos with power and mind gem vs MUI Goku

Beerus and Champa vs team Universe 6 and team Universe 7 (no Jiren or Ultra Instinct)

Super Gogetto (movie 12 Gogeta fused with Boo Arc Vegito, no time limit), vs:

SS God Goku (BOG Arc)

Golden Freeza

Hit (U6 Arc)

[theherodjl]

Thanos with power and mind gem vs MUI Goku

Beerus and Champa vs team Universe 6 and team Universe 7 (no Jiren or Ultra Instinct)

Super Gogetto (movie 12 Gogeta fused with Boo Arc Vegito, no time limit), vs:

SS God Goku (BOG Arc)

Golden Freeza

Hit (U6 Arc)

If an individual like Thanos has even one gem then he likely wins with that alone, with two then he wins for sure. Having all the physical might he could have in the universe combined with all the psionic power of the universe gives Thanos the ability to attack on two, powerful fronts; a physical bout which can stalemate MUI Goku, and a battle of the minds which Goku is definitely not going to win. Thanos, without the mind gem or any other gem, entered a mental confrontation with Galactus once, and did fairly well against the cosmic perception of Big G.

Going by raw power alone, Beerus & Champa could probably overwhelm the teams of U6 & U7. The strongest fighter, discounting UI, is SSJ2 Kefla. If Beerus & Champa take her out then they got it in the bag.

If this is Manga Vegetto fused with M12 Gogeta then the team wins. If it is Anime Vegetto fused with M12 Gogeta then Gogetto would probably win.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

If this is Manga Vegetto fused with M12 Gogeta then the team wins. If it is Anime Vegetto fused with M12 Gogeta then Gogetto would probably win.

Isn't Manga Vegetto > Anime Vegetto though? Manga is stronger than Beerus according to Kaioshin, while Anime is probably far weaker.

[theherodjl]

If this is Manga Vegetto fused with M12 Gogeta then the team wins. If it is Anime Vegetto fused with M12 Gogeta then Gogetto would probably win.

Isn't Manga Vegetto > Anime Vegetto though? Manga is stronger than Beerus according to Kaioshin, while Anime is probably far weaker.

The Vegetto from the DBZ anime was outright superior to Boohan just in base form while the manga version never attemted to fight in base, and transformed to SSJ from the start; a sort of indication that the manga version was not quite as OP as he was in the anime.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

The Vegetto from the DBZ anime was outright superior to Boohan just in base form while the manga version never attemted to fight in base, and transformed to SSJ from the start; a sort of indication that the manga version was not quite as OP as he was in the anime.

Oh, i see. I somehow misread the match and thought it was Vegetto from DBS... Since it's from Boo Arc i agree with you.

[Champa The Destroyer]

Base Gohan [Post Z sword] vs Base Goku [Boo arc]. No Super Saiyan transformations or Kaioken allowed.
Gohan [Ultimate; Boo arc] vs Base Goku [RoF arc]. No Super Saiyan transformations or Kaioken allowed.
Master Roshi [RoF arc] vs Freeza [Final form; Namek arc; 10% of FP].
Lavender vs Basil. No poison or drugs.
Kuririn [ToP arc] vs King Cold.

Base Goku, he has an extra 7 years of training between the Cell and Boo Arcs.

Base Goku completely stomps, first form Freeza casually decimated a rusty Gohan, and Goku was relatively equal to final from Freeza, who is hundreds of times stronger than his first form.

I'm not sure about this, but I'll say Roshi.

Imo Basil, but just barely, as it seems like Lavender relies on his poison too much in fights.

Krillin easily, all of team U7 by the time of the TOP should be above anything in the realm of the Namek Arc.



SS4 Gogeta vs SSB Goku (U6 Arc)

SS4-Blue Goku (TOP Arc) vs MUI Goku

In this scenario, Cell is brought back to life by a random person, and to take advantage of his zenkai, blows himself up and regenerates non stop for a year, having an unlimited supply of senzu beans to regain stamina. Who is the strongest person in DBS he can beat? Who is the strongest person in GT that he can beat?

[sunsetshimmer]

SS4 Gogeta vs SSB Goku (U6 Arc)

Gogeta one shots. Wtf...

SS4-Blue Goku (TOP Arc) vs MUI Goku

It depends, because SS4 has no official multiplier (estimated is far more than x4000). There isn't even confirmation that it has any multiplier since it was actually said to bring power to a limit (with ability to surpass it greatly) , which would mean that SS4-Blue Goku would demolish MUI Goku.

But if we assume it has multiplier, let's downplay it to x4000 an that SSJ Blue is just SSJ God x50, then regular (non limit-breaker) SSJ4 Blue would be 80 times stronger than regular SSJ Blue (4000/50). After limit break, he could be even up to 1000 times stronger or more (regular SSJ4 fired full-power Kamehameha X10 at Syn Shenron with no effect, but after limit-break he could demolish him with ki blast).

The question is how much stronger MUI Goku is compared to regular SSJ Blue, but with DBS non-existing power scaling and Frieza being able to hurt Jiren it's impossible to answer.

I would say limit-break SSJ4 Blue would one shot MUI
Regular SSJ4 Blue would lose i guess

[PFM18]

Base Gohan [Post Z sword] vs Base Goku [Boo arc]. No Super Saiyan transformations or Kaioken allowed.
Gohan [Ultimate; Boo arc] vs Base Goku [RoF arc]. No Super Saiyan transformations or Kaioken allowed.
Master Roshi [RoF arc] vs Freeza [Final form; Namek arc; 10% of FP].
Lavender vs Basil. No poison or drugs.
Kuririn [ToP arc] vs King Cold.

SS4 Gogeta vs SSB Goku (U6 Arc)

SS4-Blue Goku (TOP Arc) vs MUI Goku

In this scenario, Cell is brought back to life by a random person, and to take advantage of his zenkai, blows himself up and regenerates non stop for a year, having an unlimited supply of senzu beans to regain stamina. Who is the strongest person in DBS he can beat? Who is the strongest person in GT that he can beat?

Depends on what SSB multiplier I use. In the lowballed iteration of SSB, SSJ4 Goku from the Shadow Dragons Arc could win without fusing.albeit it would be a fairly competitive fight, I think SSJ4 Goku would win. In the more literal version based on what we see in the ToP, I would deduce that SSB Goku wins with moderate difficulty against SSJ4 Gogeta.

SSJ4 Blue does not exist so I am not really inclined to speculate about an imaginary transformation. Idk MUI Goku is really strong maybe him?

[PFM18]

SSJ3 Goku with tail(Baby Arc) vs SSJ Goku(U6 Arc)
Buu Arc Piccolo vs Perfect Cell
Golden Freeza(ToP) vs Omega Shenron
Android Arc Tenshinhan vs Namek Vegeta(post-recoome zenkai)

[sunsetshimmer]

SSJ3 Goku with tail(Baby Arc) vs SSJ Goku(U6 Arc)
Buu Arc Piccolo vs Perfect Cell
Golden Freeza(ToP) vs Omega Shenron
Android Arc Tenshinhan vs Namek Vegeta(post-recoome zenkai)

-SSJ3 GT Goku easily (as long as we assume he won't lose all energy in 5 seconds and revert to base form)
-Perfect Cell (although we never really saw any display of Piccolo's power in Buu arc other than being stronger than base Goten and Trunks, i believe he didn't train that much and might be even weaker than before)
-Omega Shenron (he can also regenerate also since he was born from wish to revive Frieza's victims he probably has some good knowledge on him. also, Frieza isn't Goku, so his body doesn't "remember techniques used once" and so he could be frozen or burned)
-If we include fillers, then Tien and others handled entire Ginyu Force lol. Still, i believe TIen would win anyway.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

SSJ3 Goku with tail(Baby Arc) vs SSJ Goku(U6 Arc)

SSJ Goku stomps. GT characters aren't touching Super characters as they lack the universe busting feats.

Buu Arc Piccolo vs Perfect Cell

By the Cell Games Piccolo was at best on Semi Perfect Cell's level and nothing implies he got much stronger by the Boo Arc. Sure, he trains everyday, but it's very unlikely that the SSJs ever got to Perfect Cell's level, let alone weak ass Piccolo. Even the Cell Goku fought one shots Gohan. Damn, probably even the Cell who clowned Vegeta would one shot him.

Golden Freeza(ToP) vs Omega Shenron

Freeza rips him in two for the same reasons of the first match up.

Android Arc Tenshinhan vs Namek Vegeta(post-recoome zenkai)

Gero thought Tenshinhan was a good energy source. Someone with a power comparable to 30k or so to someone on their hundreds of millions. There's also Tenshinhan's reaction feat of dodging 20's beams with Goku, whereas Vegeta at any point on Namek probably wouldn't even see those lasers coming. Tenshinhan completely one shots.

[Champa The Destroyer]

SS4 Gogeta vs SSB Goku (U6 Arc)

Gogeta one shots. Wtf...

SS4-Blue Goku (TOP Arc) vs MUI Goku

It depends, because SS4 has no official multiplier (estimated is far more than x4000). There isn't even confirmation that it has any multiplier since it was actually said to bring power to a limit (with ability to surpass it greatly) , which would mean that SS4-Blue Goku would demolish MUI Goku.

But if we assume it has multiplier, let's downplay it to x4000 an that SSJ Blue is just SSJ God x50, then regular (non limit-breaker) SSJ4 Blue would be 80 times stronger than regular SSJ Blue (4000/50). After limit break, he could be even up to 1000 times stronger or more (regular SSJ4 fired full-power Kamehameha X10 at Syn Shenron with no effect, but after limit-break he could demolish him with ki blast).

The question is how much stronger MUI Goku is compared to regular SSJ Blue, but with DBS non-existing power scaling and Frieza being able to hurt Jiren it's impossible to answer.

I would say limit-break SSJ4 Blue would one shot MUI
Regular SSJ4 Blue would lose i guess

Gogeta vs SSB Goku really depends on how strong you have the both Goku's bases. Most people put beginning of GT base Goku at above Boo, but he gets massive gains throughout the series. Although it's controversial, I have ROF Arc base Goku as at or above Super Saiyan God (his base able to punch away a Sphere of Destruction that his previous SS form couldn't, and if I remember correctly it was stated that said SS form was equal to God form). Add to that 3 years in the ROSAT, Goku's base should be far above anything that SS God (BOG Arc) could do.

So imo U6 Arc Goku's base should be far above GT Goku's base, depending on how strong you have SS God over Boo Saga tier. So while your multiplier for SSB matters, it seems likely that SSB Goku would beat SS4, if not easily (I personally have SS4 non limits surpassed at just above God form from the BOG Arc). Going by that, and Goku's base being at or above God form, then SSB should be hundreds of times stronger than non limits surpassed SS4 Goku, but Gogeta will still be extremely difficult. Fusion is such an insane power boost that it should put him on par with SSB Goku. However, by this time, Goku can stack Kaioken on top of SSB. So the question imo is whether SSB Kaioken x10 Goku can beat Gogeta before his stamina gives out.


Personally, I think it could go either way.


And I agree about the SS4 Blue vs MUI, though I could definitely see SS4 Blue winning.

[PFM18]

it was stated that said SS form was equal to God form

Yes it was. And there is very little further evidence that their Base surpassed SSG. SSJ(post-ritual)~SSG BoG NOT Base(post-ritual)~SSG BoG. When Goku pulled off that feat in his base, this was immediately after he had just fallen from the atmosphere heavily damaged. He came back up and said he hasn't used everything he has yet.(Not to be confused with not using his full-power yet, he was saying he used almost all of his ki and he was at his limit as far as being able to fight. Just a moment prior the fight was over.) The Base scene could simply be him accessing his power that he had when he was at full-strength and not exhausted/damaged with very little ki left. This is further emphasized when in ROF when Goku goes SSB, only then does the narrator state that Goku had surpassed SSG. NOT prior to that in his base form. Especially considering how much they emphasized that SSJ~SSG it would be strange for Goku to suddenly randomly get 50x stronger and for it to be more explicit than that.

[sunsetshimmer]

Gogeta vs SSB Goku really depends on how strong you have the both Goku's bases. Most people put beginning of GT base Goku at above Boo, but he gets massive gains throughout the series. Although it's controversial, I have ROF Arc base Goku as at or above Super Saiyan God (his base able to punch away a Sphere of Destruction that his previous SS form couldn't, and if I remember correctly it was stated that said SS form was equal to God form). Add to that 3 years in the ROSAT, Goku's base should be far above anything that SS God (BOG Arc) could do.

So imo U6 Arc Goku's base should be far above GT Goku's base, depending on how strong you have SS God over Boo Saga tier. So while your multiplier for SSB matters, it seems likely that SSB Goku would beat SS4, if not easily (I personally have SS4 non limits surpassed at just above God form from the BOG Arc). Going by that, and Goku's base being at or above God form, then SSB should be hundreds of times stronger than non limits surpassed SS4 Goku, but Gogeta will still be extremely difficult. Fusion is such an insane power boost that it should put him on par with SSB Goku. However, by this time, Goku can stack Kaioken on top of SSB. So the question imo is whether SSB Kaioken x10 Goku can beat Gogeta before his stamina gives out.


Personally, I think it could go either way.


And I agree about the SS4 Blue vs MUI, though I could definitely see SS4 Blue winning.

The RoF base >= BoG SSJG doesn't make any sense tho. It would make SSJ Blue Kaioken already be stronger than Beerus.
Overall it seems like they nerfed Goku and Vegeta a lot after BoG or at least RoF.
Goku actually struggled with Gohan. His SSJ wasn't enough to beat Ultimate Gohan. And he actually needed to transform to beat Future Trunks as well. And even if Gohan and Trunks are stronger than before (Gohan honstly couldn't get that much stronger), they still should be nothing to base Goku if he indeed was equal to his BoG SSJG form which apparently surpasses Vegito SSJ from Z.
God power at the start seemed to be something more. But now many people can easily compete against that. People who don't have god ki. And that even includes Frieza who trained for 4 months and already was comparable to SSJ Blue.

I think that base Goku and Vegeta in GT are stronger than their base counterparts in Super.

Still, the difference between SSJ4 and SSJ Blue, no matter which is stronger, wouldn't be that enormous. And Gogeta is a fusion. The same way SSJ4 Goku wouldn't get a chance against SSJB Vegito even if SSJ4 was considerably stronger. Both SSJ4 and SSJ Blue have huge multipliers which makes fusion even stronger.

[PFM18]

Gogeta vs SSB Goku really depends on how strong you have the both Goku's bases. Most people put beginning of GT base Goku at above Boo, but he gets massive gains throughout the series. Although it's controversial, I have ROF Arc base Goku as at or above Super Saiyan God (his base able to punch away a Sphere of Destruction that his previous SS form couldn't, and if I remember correctly it was stated that said SS form was equal to God form). Add to that 3 years in the ROSAT, Goku's base should be far above anything that SS God (BOG Arc) could do.

So imo U6 Arc Goku's base should be far above GT Goku's base, depending on how strong you have SS God over Boo Saga tier. So while your multiplier for SSB matters, it seems likely that SSB Goku would beat SS4, if not easily (I personally have SS4 non limits surpassed at just above God form from the BOG Arc). Going by that, and Goku's base being at or above God form, then SSB should be hundreds of times stronger than non limits surpassed SS4 Goku, but Gogeta will still be extremely difficult. Fusion is such an insane power boost that it should put him on par with SSB Goku. However, by this time, Goku can stack Kaioken on top of SSB. So the question imo is whether SSB Kaioken x10 Goku can beat Gogeta before his stamina gives out.


Personally, I think it could go either way.


And I agree about the SS4 Blue vs MUI, though I could definitely see SS4 Blue winning.

The RoF base >= BoG SSJG doesn't make any sense tho. It would make SSJ Blue Kaioken already be stronger than Beerus.
Overall it seems like they nerfed Goku and Vegeta a lot after BoG or at least RoF.
Goku actually struggled with Gohan. His SSJ wasn't enough to beat Ultimate Gohan. And he actually needed to transform to beat Future Trunks as well. And even if Gohan and Trunks are stronger than before (Gohan honstly couldn't get that much stronger), they still should be nothing to base Goku if he indeed was equal to his BoG SSJG form which apparently surpasses Vegito SSJ from Z.
God power at the start seemed to be something more. But now many people can easily compete against that. People who don't have god ki. And that even includes Frieza who trained for 4 months and already was comparable to SSJ Blue.

I think that base Goku and Vegeta in GT are stronger than their base counterparts in Super.

Still, the difference between SSJ4 and SSJ Blue, no matter which is stronger, wouldn't be that enormous. And Gogeta is a fusion. The same way SSJ4 Goku wouldn't get a chance against SSJB Vegito even if SSJ4 was considerably stronger. Both SSJ4 and SSJ Blue have huge multipliers which makes fusion even stronger.

The ROF Base>BoG SSG notion was only a thing in the movie sequence. "Saiyan Beyond God" does not exist in DBS and they are not stronger than SSG in Base in the anime series, nor were they ever. Instead of Base ROF~SSG it was SSJ(post-ritual)~SSG BoG.

Goku struggled with which Gohan? He explicitly stated he was holding back in their fight on the farm and the one right before the ToP Gohan gained a massive boost and was far stronger than anything in DBZ obviously.

Future Trunks had been training for the previous 14 years. 14 years is a very long time especially for somebody who is a hybrid saiyan with more potential than actual Saiyans. This is not evidence of a Goku/Vegeta nerf.

Honestly the idea that Base Goku/Vegeta in GT>Base Goku/Vegeta in Super is objectively false. Their SSJ forms are far beyond since their SSJ was equal with it during the fight with Beerus in BoG. This is the same SSG that was very clearly stronger than any possible output Vegetto could put out prior to the ritual.(Obviously that includes SSJ3.)

Based on the story it is very clear that:

SSJ(post-ritual)>SSG BoG>SSJ3 Vegetto

immediately after the BoG arc was over. By this point since Base is one 50th of the power of SSJ, they are far beyond anything in DBZ in their base forms.

[sunsetshimmer]

The ROF Base>BoG SSG notion was only a thing in the movie sequence. "Saiyan Beyond God" does not exist in DBS and they are not stronger than SSG in Base in the anime series, nor were they ever. Instead of Base ROF~SSG it was SSJ(post-ritual)~SSG BoG.

Goku struggled with which Gohan? He explicitly stated he was holding back in their fight on the farm and the one right before the ToP Gohan gained a massive boost and was far stronger than anything in DBZ obviously.

Future Trunks had been training for the previous 14 years. 14 years is a very long time especially for somebody who is a hybrid saiyan with more potential than actual Saiyans. This is not evidence of a Goku/Vegeta nerf.

Honestly the idea that Base Goku/Vegeta in GT>Base Goku/Vegeta in Super is objectively false. Their SSJ forms are far beyond since their SSJ was equal with it during the fight with Beerus in BoG. This is the same SSG that was very clearly stronger than any possible output Vegetto could put out prior to the ritual.(Obviously that includes SSJ3.)

Based on the story it is very clear that:

SSJ(post-ritual)>SSG BoG>SSJ3 Vegetto

immediately after the BoG arc was over. By this point since Base is one 50th of the power of SSJ, they are far beyond anything in DBZ in their base forms.

Gohan got his old power back. He trained for few days. Him making Goku turn Blue is just a shitty writing of anime.
Also, i am not really sure how things looks in actual Toriyama's script. I believe in manga Gohan was only said to get his condition back.
He might have holding back, but it doesn't help anything. His "holding back" habit in Super apparently makes him struggle with Roshi.

And nothing was ever said about SSJG being stronger than SSJ3 Vegito.
Fusion with Vegeta = SSJ Vegito. There was no SSJ3 Vegito.

[PFM18]

The ROF Base>BoG SSG notion was only a thing in the movie sequence. "Saiyan Beyond God" does not exist in DBS and they are not stronger than SSG in Base in the anime series, nor were they ever. Instead of Base ROF~SSG it was SSJ(post-ritual)~SSG BoG.

Goku struggled with which Gohan? He explicitly stated he was holding back in their fight on the farm and the one right before the ToP Gohan gained a massive boost and was far stronger than anything in DBZ obviously.

Future Trunks had been training for the previous 14 years. 14 years is a very long time especially for somebody who is a hybrid saiyan with more potential than actual Saiyans. This is not evidence of a Goku/Vegeta nerf.

Honestly the idea that Base Goku/Vegeta in GT>Base Goku/Vegeta in Super is objectively false. Their SSJ forms are far beyond since their SSJ was equal with it during the fight with Beerus in BoG. This is the same SSG that was very clearly stronger than any possible output Vegetto could put out prior to the ritual.(Obviously that includes SSJ3.)

Based on the story it is very clear that:

SSJ(post-ritual)>SSG BoG>SSJ3 Vegetto

immediately after the BoG arc was over. By this point since Base is one 50th of the power of SSJ, they are far beyond anything in DBZ in their base forms.

Gohan got his old power back. He trained for few days. Him making Goku turn Blue is just a shitty writing of anime.
Also, i am not really sure how things looks in actual Toriyama's script. I believe in manga Gohan was only said to get his condition back.
He might have holding back, but it doesn't help anything. His "holding back" habit in Super apparently makes him struggle with Roshi.

And nothing was ever said about SSJG being stronger than SSJ3 Vegito.
Fusion with Vegeta = SSJ Vegito. There was no SSJ3 Vegito.

The "power" being referred to was established to be the transformation itself of "Ultimate." Gohan goes from SSJ2->Ultimate and it is shown as a new form then and throughout the ToP. This is not in any way a reference to the level of power he had against Buu.

He didn't "make" Goku go SSB, he asked Goku. Gohan isnt at the same strength of SSB in that scene but he he isnt too far off. This is consistent with what is shown in the actual ToP. It is consistent and so I don't see how this is an example of shitty writing.(Either way the quality of the writing is irrelevant) This fact shows he is several magnitudes above his Buu Arc self. For being able to compete with SSB, he is at the absolute bare minimum 1,000x stronger than his Buu arc self

He was holding back againsg Gohan in the sparring match on the farm. Gohan pointed it out and Goku literally confirmed it. I dont see how this "doesn't help anything." It shows Goku is not anywhere close to his Buu arc self. His current Base dwarfs his Buu Arc SSJ3 self. (This is implied/shown several times in the series.)

It isnt explicitly stated that SSG Goku>SSJ3 Vegetto but it is heavily implied.

-The incredibly suppressed Beerus that 2 shot SSJ3 Goku, was determined to be too be too much to handle with fusion. Goku said fusion wouldnt work and he obviously knows he can use SSJ3 as Vegetto.
-upon using the power of SSG he says that he didnt know that level of power could even exist. (Didn't think it was possible).

Clearly the implication here is that there was no other way Goku could reach that level of power and that includes fusion and the maximum output it can produce. (SSJ3)

[Champa The Destroyer]

Gogeta vs SSB Goku really depends on how strong you have the both Goku's bases. Most people put beginning of GT base Goku at above Boo, but he gets massive gains throughout the series. Although it's controversial, I have ROF Arc base Goku as at or above Super Saiyan God (his base able to punch away a Sphere of Destruction that his previous SS form couldn't, and if I remember correctly it was stated that said SS form was equal to God form). Add to that 3 years in the ROSAT, Goku's base should be far above anything that SS God (BOG Arc) could do.

So imo U6 Arc Goku's base should be far above GT Goku's base, depending on how strong you have SS God over Boo Saga tier. So while your multiplier for SSB matters, it seems likely that SSB Goku would beat SS4, if not easily (I personally have SS4 non limits surpassed at just above God form from the BOG Arc). Going by that, and Goku's base being at or above God form, then SSB should be hundreds of times stronger than non limits surpassed SS4 Goku, but Gogeta will still be extremely difficult. Fusion is such an insane power boost that it should put him on par with SSB Goku. However, by this time, Goku can stack Kaioken on top of SSB. So the question imo is whether SSB Kaioken x10 Goku can beat Gogeta before his stamina gives out.


Personally, I think it could go either way.


And I agree about the SS4 Blue vs MUI, though I could definitely see SS4 Blue winning.

The RoF base >= BoG SSJG doesn't make any sense tho. It would make SSJ Blue Kaioken already be stronger than Beerus.
Overall it seems like they nerfed Goku and Vegeta a lot after BoG or at least RoF.
Goku actually struggled with Gohan. His SSJ wasn't enough to beat Ultimate Gohan. And he actually needed to transform to beat Future Trunks as well. And even if Gohan and Trunks are stronger than before (Gohan honstly couldn't get that much stronger), they still should be nothing to base Goku if he indeed was equal to his BoG SSJG form which apparently surpasses Vegito SSJ from Z.
God power at the start seemed to be something more. But now many people can easily compete against that. People who don't have god ki. And that even includes Frieza who trained for 4 months and already was comparable to SSJ Blue.

I think that base Goku and Vegeta in GT are stronger than their base counterparts in Super.

Still, the difference between SSJ4 and SSJ Blue, no matter which is stronger, wouldn't be that enormous. And Gogeta is a fusion. The same way SSJ4 Goku wouldn't get a chance against SSJB Vegito even if SSJ4 was considerably stronger. Both SSJ4 and SSJ Blue have huge multipliers which makes fusion even stronger.

The ROF Base>BoG SSG notion was only a thing in the movie sequence. "Saiyan Beyond God" does not exist in DBS and they are not stronger than SSG in Base in the anime series, nor were they ever. Instead of Base ROF~SSG it was SSJ(post-ritual)~SSG BoG.

Goku struggled with which Gohan? He explicitly stated he was holding back in their fight on the farm and the one right before the ToP Gohan gained a massive boost and was far stronger than anything in DBZ obviously.

Future Trunks had been training for the previous 14 years. 14 years is a very long time especially for somebody who is a hybrid saiyan with more potential than actual Saiyans. This is not evidence of a Goku/Vegeta nerf.

Honestly the idea that Base Goku/Vegeta in GT>Base Goku/Vegeta in Super is objectively false. Their SSJ forms are far beyond since their SSJ was equal with it during the fight with Beerus in BoG. This is the same SSG that was very clearly stronger than any possible output Vegetto could put out prior to the ritual.(Obviously that includes SSJ3.)

Based on the story it is very clear that:

SSJ(post-ritual)>SSG BoG>SSJ3 Vegetto

immediately after the BoG arc was over. By this point since Base is one 50th of the power of SSJ, they are far beyond anything in DBZ in their base forms.

I stand corrected, I think the Sphere of Destruction feat was most likely just an act of desperation, not his standard base power. However, I still think that by the time of the TOP, Goku's SS should be above the ritual in BOG. And imo the narrator only saying SSB surpassed God was probably to say that he found a higher transformation. For example, a big plot point in the Cell Arc was the protagonists going beyond Super Saiyan. Does this mean that up until SS Grade 2 that Vegeta was weaker than SS Goku in the Namek Arc? Of course not. However, I still stand by my opinion that SS4 Gogeta vs SSB Goku (U6) is close.

[PFM18]

I stand corrected, I think the Sphere of Destruction feat was most likely just an act of desperation, not his standard base power.

I agree, and I think that is what the writers were trying to get across to be honest. Given the fact this immediately followed Goku essentially falling unconscious.

However, I still think that by the time of the TOP, Goku's SS should be above the ritual in BOG.

Don't you mean by the time of the ToP his Base surpassed the ritual in BoG? In BoG his SSJ was stated by Goku and Beerus themselves to be as strong as SSG from a moment ago so I think SSJ GOk(ToP)>SSG Goku(BoG) kind of goes without saying.

And imo the narrator only saying SSB surpassed God was probably to say that he found a higher transformation. For example, a big plot point in the Cell Arc was the protagonists going beyond Super Saiyan. Does this mean that up until SS Grade 2 that Vegeta was weaker than SS Goku in the Namek Arc? Of course not. However, I still stand by my opinion that SS4 Gogeta vs SSB Goku (U6) is close.

The narrator's statement is the only real indication comparing the current power in ROF to SSG from BoG. It may appear to be referring to the transformation itself, but I think that the intention of the line was to establish where things stand in terms of power not strictly in terms of transformations. The example you gave was referring to equivalent forms too. Of course, a stronger Vegeta in SSJ is stronger than Goku in the same form on Namek. We are discussing an "inferior" form (Base) surpassing SSG. There's no precedent set earlier in the series and I would imagine had Goku/Vegeta surpassed that level it would have been made more clear or shown in some other way.

Yeah I don't see anything wrong with saying SSJ4 Gogeta vs U6 Arc SSB Goku is close is an irrational opinion. I just wanted to point out that saying Base Goku ROF>SSG Goku BoG is fairly objectively false.