The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[TheUltimateNinja]

Freeza kills them all, but if they are all fighting as a team, he would need to go 100%

So none of the Saiyans in your view have reach a BP above 60 million in base? Also shouldn't Yakon be stronger than Base Goku? I think Freeza would hit the wall in Base Boo arc Goku. (he possibly could defeat Kibito though)

Frieza has already been confirmed to be above base BoG Goku.

He's asking about 50% Frieza, not full power Frieza.

[Noah]

He's asking about 50% Frieza, not full power Frieza.

Indeed.

[dragonball0900]

Freeza kills them all, but if they are all fighting as a team, he would need to go 100%

So none of the Saiyans in your view have reach a BP above 60 million in base? Also shouldn't Yakon be stronger than Base Goku? I think Freeza would hit the wall in Base Boo arc Goku. (he possibly could defeat Kibito though)

Frieza has already been confirmed to be above base BoG Goku.

I was just referring to 50% Frieza. The base saiyans obviously didn't reach the 120,000,000 of 100% Frieza since it was confirmed in BOG. But I find it hard to believe that at least the Buu arc saiyans and Cell Games Goku didn't reach or surpass 50% Frieza's 60,000,000

These are my numbers for the Base Saiyans, Kibito and Yakon:

Base Androids Arc Trunks - 4,200,000

Base Androids Arc Goku - 4,900,000

Base Androids Arc Vegeta - 5,000,000

Base 1st ROSAT Trunks - 14,500,000

Base 1st ROSAT Vegeta - 15,000,000 (3 times stronger than before)

Base Cell Games Trunks - 34,000,000 (just roughly 2.4 times stronger than before)

Base Cell Games Vegeta - 36,000,000 (just roughly 2.4 times stronger than before)

Base Cell Games Goku - 60,000,000

Base Cell Games Gohan - 70,000,000

Base Buu Arc Gohan - 68,000,000

Base Buu Arc Vegeta - 80,000,000

Base Buu Arc Goku - 90,000,000

Kibito - 60,000,000 (able to make Base Buu Arc Gohan a tough fight)

Yakon - 100,000,000 (stronger than Base Goku, but would lose if Gohan and Goku team up)

So I'd personally say that 50% Frieza would defeat Cell Games Trunks and Vegeta, would be on par with Cell Games Goku and Kibito, and would lose to Cell Games Gohan and Buu Arc Saiyans, as well as Yakon.

[DanielSSJ]

Frieza has already been confirmed to be above base BoG Goku.

But it's not confirmed that he's twice as strong as base Goku. The gauntlet was specifically for 50% Freeza.

[dragon boss z]

He's asking about 50% Frieza, not full power Frieza.

But it's not confirmed that he's twice as strong as base Goku. The gauntlet was specifically for 50% Freeza.

He's asking about 50% Frieza, not full power Frieza.

Indeed.

Ya I know that's what the question was about, but when he said Frieza hits the wall at base Buu arc Goku I thought he might of meant full power Frieza. My bad for misinterpreting that.

[dragon boss z]

Ya I got confused. My numbers are lower than yours, but yours could definitely work and nothing really contradicts them.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Buu Arc SSJ2 Goku vs SSJ2 Vegeta (Pre Majin) and SSJ2 Kid Gohan

[Gog]

Fifth form Freeza

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Vs

Android 17

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[TheUltimateNinja]

Fifth form Freeza

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Vs

Android 18

[spoiler][/spoiler]

That's Android 17.

[DanielSSJ]

Buu Arc SSJ2 Goku vs SSJ2 Vegeta (Pre Majin) and SSJ2 Kid Gohan

Goku is notably stronger than the two, but he's definitely not strong enough to fend them both off at once.

Fifth form Freeza

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Vs

Android 18

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Did No. 18 dye her hair?

As I have said before, I don't think that the fifth form is that drastic a power-up. It's more-or-less a more efficient manifestation of that bulked up 100% state that Freeza uses on Namek, sorta like the difference between Super Saiyan 2 to Super Saiyan Grade 2 and 3. It would increase Freeza's power by 50%, which puts him on par with Yardrat Goku and Future Trunks. No. 18(17?) would trash him easily.

[TheUltimateNinja]

FPSSJ Goku vs 7 Cell Jrs., SSJ Vegeta, SSJ Trunks & Piccolo.

[DanielSSJ]

FPSSJ Goku vs 7 Cell Jrs., SSJ Vegeta, SSJ Trunks & Piccolo.

Goku outpaces the group by a lot, but fighting ten of those guys all at the same time is pushing it, even for Goku.

[TheUltimateNinja]

FPSSJ Goku vs 7 Cell Jrs., SSJ Vegeta, SSJ Trunks & Piccolo.

Goku outpaces the group by a lot, but fighting ten of those guys all at the same time is pushing it, even for Goku.

I view it kind of like the Ginyu fight. Even if you added 10 more Recoomes it wouldn't change anything.

[Gog]

Buu Arc SSJ2 Goku vs SSJ2 Vegeta (Pre Majin) and SSJ2 Kid Gohan

Goku is notably stronger than the two, but he's definitely not strong enough to fend them both off at once.

Fifth form Freeza

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Vs

Android 18

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Did No. 18 dye her hair?



As I have said before, I don't think that the fifth form is that drastic a power-up. It's more-or-less a more efficient manifestation of that bulked up 100% state that Freeza uses on Namek, sorta like the difference between Super Saiyan 2 to Super Saiyan Grade 2 and 3. It would increase Freeza's power by 50%, which puts him on par with Yardrat Goku and Future Trunks. No. 18(17?) would trash him easily.

I meant 17!

Your idea of the form basically being a more efficient 100% form is neat, but here's the thing, in the movie Goku was implied to be as strong as Freeza in his base form. Now this will be important. Coola and Goku were fighting evenly in battle at full power, we can deduce that Coola was fighting at his full power as he appeared to have no need of any of the suppression forms.

Later on in the move Coola transforms into his fifth form and Goku fires a kaio kenX(?) Kamehameha. Now we never get too know what the multiplier of the kaio ken Goku used, but for the sake of argument I'll say that he used three and not twenty as that's literally an insane increase in power. Coola still absolutely thrashed Goku.

The form cannot function at a 50% increase in power from what we see in the movie.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I meant 17!

Your idea of the form basically being a more efficient 100% form is neat, but here's the thing, in the movie Goku was implied to be as strong as Freeza in his base form. Now this will be important. Coola and Goku were fighting evenly in battle at full power, we can deduce that Coola was fighting at his full power as he appeared to have no need of any of the suppression forms.

Later on in the move Coola transforms into his fifth form and Goku fires a kaio kenX(?) Kamehameha. Now we never get too know what the multiplier of the kaio ken Goku used, but for the sake of argument I'll say that he used three and not twenty as that's literally an insane increase in power. Coola still absolutely thrashed Goku.

The form cannot function at a 50% increase in power from what we see in the movie.

Goku was using his invisible Kaioken against Base Cooler.

[DanielSSJ]

I meant 17!

Your idea of the form basically being a more efficient 100% form is neat, but here's the thing, in the movie Goku was implied to be as strong as Freeza in his base form. Now this will be important. Coola and Goku were fighting evenly in battle at full power, we can deduce that Coola was fighting at his full power as he appeared to have no need of any of the suppression forms.

Later on in the move Coola transforms into his fifth form and Goku fires a kaio kenX(?) Kamehameha. Now we never get too know what the multiplier of the kaio ken Goku used, but for the sake of argument I'll say that he used three and not twenty as that's literally an insane increase in power. Coola still absolutely thrashed Goku.

The form cannot function at a 50% increase in power from what we see in the movie.

I believe I have made my position on the power relations in that movie clear not too long ago. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[dragonball0900]

Buu Arc SSJ2 Goku vs SSJ2 Vegeta (Pre Majin) and SSJ2 Kid Gohan

I'd say Goku defeats them both after a good fight, since I have Kid Gohan below Buu arc Vegeta, who is stated to be below Goku.

Fifth form Freeza

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Vs

Android 17

[spoiler][/spoiler]

I have Android 17 at 400,000,000 (like Piccolo), while Frieza's 5th form would probably double his 4th form's strenght. 120,000,000 times 2 is 240,000,000. He would be on par with Androids Arc Goku, and below Vegeta since I have him at 250,000,000. So I'll give Android 17 the win.

FPSSJ Goku vs 7 Cell Jrs., SSJ Vegeta, SSJ Trunks & Piccolo.

7 Cell Jrs are just too much for Goku. He probably trashes them all as well as Vegeta, Trunks and Piccolo (the latter being much weaker than the others). But Goku would end up exhausted, but not as much as his fight with Cell.

[dragon boss z]

Buu Arc SSJ2 Goku vs SSJ2 Vegeta (Pre Majin) and SSJ2 Kid Gohan

The team wins.

Fifth form Freeza

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Vs

Android 17

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Depends on how much you think the 5th form multiplier would be. I think the androids were about twice as strong as Frieza, maybe a bit less than that, and I would think getting a new form woudl at least make him twice as strong. Plus he could win via planet bust. So I'm giving it to Frieza.

[Gog]

I meant 17!

Your idea of the form basically being a more efficient 100% form is neat, but here's the thing, in the movie Goku was implied to be as strong as Freeza in his base form. Now this will be important. Coola and Goku were fighting evenly in battle at full power, we can deduce that Coola was fighting at his full power as he appeared to have no need of any of the suppression forms.

Later on in the move Coola transforms into his fifth form and Goku fires a kaio kenX(?) Kamehameha. Now we never get too know what the multiplier of the kaio ken Goku used, but for the sake of argument I'll say that he used three and not twenty as that's literally an insane increase in power. Coola still absolutely thrashed Goku.

The form cannot function at a 50% increase in power from what we see in the movie.

Goku was using his invisible Kaioken against Base Cooler.

So does that mean that Coola's a complete weakling? Also how does invisible kaio ken work? Does that mean Super Saiyan times your strength by 500 times, rather than 50 times? Because I cannot fathom how that could even work. Or are you messing with me and your joke has literally flown over my head?

I meant 17!

Your idea of the form basically being a more efficient 100% form is neat, but here's the thing, in the movie Goku was implied to be as strong as Freeza in his base form. Now this will be important. Coola and Goku were fighting evenly in battle at full power, we can deduce that Coola was fighting at his full power as he appeared to have no need of any of the suppression forms.

Later on in the move Coola transforms into his fifth form and Goku fires a kaio kenX(?) Kamehameha. Now we never get too know what the multiplier of the kaio ken Goku used, but for the sake of argument I'll say that he used three and not twenty as that's literally an insane increase in power. Coola still absolutely thrashed Goku.

The form cannot function at a 50% increase in power from what we see in the movie.

I believe I have made my position on the power relations in that movie clear not too long ago. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Well okay then.

[DanielSSJ]

So does that mean that Coola's a complete weakling? Also how does invisible kaio ken work? Does that mean Super Saiyan times your strength by 500 times, rather than 50 times? Because I cannot fathom how that could even work. Or are you messing with me and your joke has literally flown over my head?

The Invisible Kaioken theory just refers to Goku using the Kaioken in a fight despite not having the telltale red aura. In practice, it means that Goku could've been upwards around 60~80 million against Coola instead of 3~4 million, which would make Coola's statement about base form Goku taking down Freeza a bit more believable.

It's also a theory some use to say that Goku was using Kaioken x10 from the get-go against Freeza, and that his base form wasn't actually in the millions during that fight. Personally I see next to no merit. If the writers wanted us to know that Goku was using the Kaioken, they would've drawn him with the red aura.