The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
Steven Bloodriver
I Live Here
Posts: 3477
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:06 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Steven Bloodriver » Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:38 am

Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black (Before Potara Fusion) vs. Merged Zamasu (Half-Corrupted).

dragonball0900
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1069
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016 11:47 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dragonball0900 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:57 pm

Chickenchaser wrote:Kuririn (Boo Saga) VS Pui Pui who would win?
I think Krillin wins easily. I have Pui Pui around Oozaru Vegeta from the Saiyan arc. And I have Krillin much stronger than that, surpassing First Form Frieza. My numbers are 675,000 for Krillin and 100,000 to 180,000 for Pui Pui.
LeanMeanFatReducin wrote:SSG saiyan saga Goku vs Super Perfect Cell
I don't really know, but I will give this to SPC. Goku would probably be around Perfect Cell though.
Chickenchaser wrote:Good Boo (Boo saga) VS Super Perfect Cell
Good Boo showed feats that were superior to SSJ2 Vegeta, who should be around Super Perfect Cell, then Good Boo takes this, not only because of more strenght, but because of his regeneration.

User avatar
Ki Breaker
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6572
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:15 am
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Ki Breaker » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:27 pm

Steven Bloodriver wrote:Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black (Before Potara Fusion) vs. Merged Zamasu (Half-Corrupted).
Rosé takes it..
Merged Zamasu completely lost all the cool and level headed personality and his power went down as soon as he was corrupted..
but knowing our views which differ on everything, you probably disagree with this don't you pal :P
The Lord moves in mysterious ways but you don't have to. Please use your blinker

User avatar
Noah
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8160
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:56 pm
Location: Virtual World

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Noah » Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:47 pm

Strongest character Present Zamasu can beat?
乃亜

Top 10 DB/Z/GT Songs

Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?

User avatar
mysticboy
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1608
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:54 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by mysticboy » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:22 pm

LeanMeanFatReducin wrote:SSG saiyan saga Goku vs Super Perfect Cell
Goku went from multi-solar system level to universal with SSJG in the BoG arc. So a saiyan arc SSJG Goku would absolutely fodderize Cell.

User avatar
Steven Bloodriver
I Live Here
Posts: 3477
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:06 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Steven Bloodriver » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:42 pm

Ki Breaker wrote:
Steven Bloodriver wrote:Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black (Before Potara Fusion) vs. Merged Zamasu (Half-Corrupted).
Rosé takes it..
Merged Zamasu completely lost all the cool and level headed personality and his power went down as soon as he was corrupted..
but knowing our views which differ on everything, you probably disagree with this don't you pal :P
1) I completely agree with you on this, Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black would pull out a win against Merged Zamasu (Half-Corrupted). But would probably be in need of some rest, as dealing with an Eternal God is no laughing matter.

2) Potara Fusion of Master Roshi and Goku Black vs. Potara Fusion of General Blue and Base Form Zarbon.

User avatar
Steven Bloodriver
I Live Here
Posts: 3477
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:06 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Steven Bloodriver » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:43 pm

Noah wrote:Strongest character Present Zamasu can beat?
Copy-Vegeta.

User avatar
Bullza
Banned
Posts: 8621
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:48 am
Location: UK

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Bullza » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:44 pm

Noah wrote:Strongest character Present Zamasu can beat?
Super Saiyan Goku.

User avatar
dragon boss z
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1997
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:19 am

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:40 pm

mysticboy wrote:
LeanMeanFatReducin wrote:SSG saiyan saga Goku vs Super Perfect Cell
Goku went from multi-solar system level to universal with SSJG in the BoG arc. So a saiyan arc SSJG Goku would absolutely fodderize Cell.
It's never good to measure character strength by how much DC they have in dragon ball. Not to mention Goku might not even be universal. It seems like nobody weaker than a GoD is universe level, and Toshi recently said he doesn't think Goku can destroy the universe, and when pressured with the statements in the BoG arc he said maybe he could but he wouldn't, so even when shown those statements he wouldn't say he can destroy the universe, and it never happened again after the fight with Beerus, so take it as you will.

User avatar
dragon boss z
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1997
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:19 am

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:41 pm

Final form Frieza vs ssj Caulifla

At first I was think U6 saiyans might be stronger but after this idk
[spoiler]Image
Image[/spoiler]

User avatar
mysticboy
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1608
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:54 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by mysticboy » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:00 am

dragon boss z wrote:It's never good to measure character strength by how much DC they have in dragon ball. Not to mention Goku might not even be universal. It seems like nobody weaker than a GoD is universe level, and Toshi recently said he doesn't think Goku can destroy the universe, and when pressured with the statements in the BoG arc he said maybe he could but he wouldn't, so even when shown those statements he wouldn't say he can destroy the universe, and it never happened again after the fight with Beerus, so take it as you will.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTPKLMzutRo&t=0s
He pretty much sums up my sentiments about Toshi's tweets.

User avatar
Saiyan007
Regular
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:14 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Saiyan007 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:13 am

dragon boss z wrote:
It's never good to measure character strength by how much DC they have in dragon ball.
Why not?Cell was bragging about destroying the Solar System, Goku said the Universe might go Pop if he doesn't beat Buu
Not to mention Goku might not even be universal
Feats/statements say otherwise
It seems like nobody weaker than a GoD is universe level, and Toshi recently said he doesn't think Goku can destroy the universe, and when pressured with the statements in the BoG arc he said maybe he could but he wouldn't, so even when shown those statements he wouldn't say he can destroy the universe, and it never happened again after the fight with Beerus, so take it as you will.
Feats/statements from episode 12-14 say someone as weak as SSjG Goku has Universal level power not too mention shockwaves stopped happening in the very same Beerus fight because Goku cancelled them out yet the narrator still confirms he has universal striking strength without destroying the universe as a side effect not too mention Goku destroying Beerus energy ball in episode 14.

User avatar
dragon boss z
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1997
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:19 am

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:31 am

Saiyan007 wrote: Why not?Cell was bragging about destroying the Solar System, Goku said the Universe might go Pop if he doesn't beat Buu
Frieza could very well have more DC than the androids yet they can beat him. Roshi could destroy an entire mountain, yet Tao who should only be a couple times weaker was mortally wounded by a grenade. Not to mention pretty much everyone is able to fight Goku in SSB now.
Feats/statements say otherwise
The universe was never destroyed, so feats don't really say otherwise. Statements do, but they seem to ignore them now. They were Toei statements anwyas. In Toyotaro's manga Fused Zamasu pretty much said he was galaxy level.
Feats/statements from episode 12-14 say someone as weak as SSjG Goku has Universal level power not too mention shockwaves stopped happening in the very same Beerus fight because Goku cancelled them out yet the narrator still confirms he has universal striking strength without destroying the universe as a side effect not too mention Goku destroying Beerus energy ball in episode 14.
Ya and if Super kept building upon that, then I would agree, but instead they decided to just throw it out. It's like the witters can't understand that Beerus is weaker when he is suppressed. It looks like they purposefully make fights like Golden Frieza vs Goku, Hit vs Goku, and SSR Black/Zamasu vs Goku/Vegeta/Trunks on a lower level than SSG Goku vs Beerus just because Beerus was in the fight. Not only was that the only fight with universal shockwaves, it was the only one where they were going to space in back while fighting and destroying everything around them.

User avatar
dragon boss z
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1997
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:19 am

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:35 am

mysticboy wrote:
dragon boss z wrote:It's never good to measure character strength by how much DC they have in dragon ball. Not to mention Goku might not even be universal. It seems like nobody weaker than a GoD is universe level, and Toshi recently said he doesn't think Goku can destroy the universe, and when pressured with the statements in the BoG arc he said maybe he could but he wouldn't, so even when shown those statements he wouldn't say he can destroy the universe, and it never happened again after the fight with Beerus, so take it as you will.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTPKLMzutRo&t=0s
He pretty much sums up my sentiments about Toshi's tweets.
While I agree with Seth that the Super writers don't have total say what happens and that there are different writers for different episodes, those tweets are proof that some of the writers don't really consider Goku universe level. Only after being pushed did Toshi say he might be. While I agree the episode back then made it seem like he was, it seems like they just through that power out the window. God power isn't even special at this point anymore. Do you really think Kale has above universal durability?

User avatar
Saiyan007
Regular
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:14 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Saiyan007 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:02 am

dragon boss z wrote:
Frieza could very well have more DC than the androids yet they can beat him.
huh? Are you talking about Freeza on Namek vs Cell saga Androids If so the androids had more DC by far.

Roshi could destroy an entire mountain, yet Tao who should only be a couple times weaker was mortally wounded by a grenade. Not to mention pretty much everyone is able to fight Goku in SSB now.
You're implying Goku is always using his maximum output when he uses SSB he can hold back like vs Krillin and 17,Toshi even mentions this
The universe was never destroyed, so feats don't really say otherwise. Statements do, but they seem to ignore them now.
Actually Goku destroying a ball of energy that had more that enough power to destroy universe 7 in one punch tends to support the claim...How do they ignore the statements? Episode 13 made it clear that they don't need to be sending out universal shockwaves to still be striking with Universal energy
They were Toei statements anwyas.
Considering Old Kai in chapter 4 after Goku & Beerus clash says "What in the an impact on earth is resonating all the way out here?.... At This Rate The entire universe is in jeopardy". this is coming from Toriyama
In Toyotaro's manga Fused Zamasu pretty much said he was galaxy level.
Just shows how inconsisteny he is besides ho cares what's in Toyo's manga he has things that contradict old Toriyama's interview(transforming into a SSJg comes to mind) besides the Super was produced as an anime first and foremost the manga came after.
Ya and if Super kept building upon that, then I would agree, but instead they decided to just throw it out. It's like the witters can't understand that Beerus is weaker when he is suppressed. It looks like they purposefully make fights like Golden Frieza vs Goku, Hit vs Goku, and SSR Black/Zamasu vs Goku/Vegeta/Trunks on a lower level than SSG Goku vs Beerus just because Beerus was in the fight. Not only was that the only fight with universal shockwaves, it was the only one where they were going to space in back while fighting and destroying everything around them.

Again you do realize that the latter half of Goku vs Beerus looks like the fights you're talking about right? Or do you think Goku & Beerus in episode 12 are the stronger than the very same yet powered up Goku & Beerus in episode 13.

Shockwaves don't mean anything point of the matter Goku in the BoG with all his impressive feats is fodder to current Goku it would be silly to think or say that "well current Goku has never done any of those same feats so that means his weaker form is stronger"


edit:
those tweets are proof that some of the writers don't really consider Goku universe level. Only after being pushed did Toshi say he might be.
You mean after showing the evidence that Goku is universal Toshi backpedalled and said that even if he could he wouldn't do it
While I agree the episode back then made it seem like he was, it seems like they just through that power out the window. God power isn't even special at this point anymore. Do you really think Kale has above universal durability?
It seemed like that in episode 13(you know vs the same Goku & Beerus) while I agree Goku is spamming the God form Kale tanking the KHH puts her on that level

User avatar
dragon boss z
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1997
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:19 am

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:44 am

Saiyan007 wrote:
huh? Are you talking about Freeza on Namek vs Cell saga Androids If so the androids had more DC by far.
Do you have any evidence of this? They never use ki blasts in battle and don't have regular ki (that's why they can't be sensed). And they don't have the power to destroy the planet with punches, so they should have less DC. Only large attacks like the kamehameha could destroy the Earth at that point.

You're implying Goku is always using his maximum output when he uses SSB he can hold back like vs Krillin and 17,Toshi even mentions this
But he should of at least used 1% of his power or else why even us it at all. And even being galaxy level wouldn't even be close to 1% of being universe level.
Actually Goku destroying a ball of energy that had more that enough power to destroy universe 7 in one punch tends to support the claim...How do they ignore the statements? Episode 13 made it clear that they don't need to be sending out universal shockwaves to still be striking with Universal energy
We don't know if it really would of destroyed all of universe 7 though. Whis would of been way more concerned if Beerus was about to do that, and like old Kai said Beerus probably can't survive a universe being destroyed so Beerus would of probably been more worried.
Considering Old Kai in chapter 4 after Goku & Beerus clash says "What in the an impact on earth is resonating all the way out here?.... At This Rate The entire universe is in jeopardy". this is coming from Toriyama
The universe was in jeapardy as they could of destroyed it throughout their fight. They definitley have the power to destroy the universe eventually, I'm just saying I don't think they can do it in one blast. A similar statement could be made if I felt the explosions of a war on the other side of the planet and said "at this rate the whole planet is in jeopardy". That doesn't mean one bomb will destroy the planet.
Just shows how inconsisteny he is besides ho cares what's in Toyo's manga he has things that contradict old Toriyama's interview(transforming into a SSJg comes to mind) besides the Super was produced as an anime first and foremost the manga came after.
That's what I'm saying. Super is very inconsistent. When watching ep 12/13 I would of said SSG Goku is probably universal, but now it just seems like they are ignoring that. And the fact that one of the writers of the show just didn't say yes when asked if Goku can destroy the universe even though he is much stronger than back then just shows that they don't care about what happened back then.
Again you do realize that the latter half of Goku vs Beerus looks like the fights you're talking about right? Or do you think Goku & Beerus in episode 12 are the stronger than the very same yet powered up Goku & Beerus in episode 13.

Shockwaves don't mean anything point of the matter Goku in the BoG with all his impressive feats is fodder to current Goku it would be silly to think or say that "well current Goku has never done any of those same feats so that means his weaker form is stronger"
I'm not even talkign about the shockwaves. Just look at ep 11 and ep 13 and how strong/intense they make the fight look. They are fighting on a completely different level than Black or Frieza ever did against Goku even without the shockwaves. Same with the BoG movie and RoF. Even in the movies they made the Goku vs Beerus fight more epic, just because they probalby think Beerus is stronger without realizing Frieza should be stronger than supressed Beerus.
You mean after showing the evidence that Goku is universal Toshi backpedalled and said that even if he could he wouldn't do it
He didn't backpedal. Notice how he said IF he could. So he was basically saying "if you think he can universe bust he won't because he is a good guy". That doesn't mean he can do it at all.
It seemed like that in episode 13(you know vs the same Goku & Beerus) while I agree Goku is spamming the God form Kale tanking the KHH puts her on that level
Ep 13 didn't contradict anything because it was two gods of unknown power fighting.

Kale had her blast deflected by ssj2 Caulifla and didn't one shot ssj2 Goku.
17 shouldn't nearly be universal.
Krillin is still arguably not even planet level.
The trio de danger are buu saga tier at best and Goku and Vegeta used a combo SSB final kamehameha...

It just seems they nerfed the god transformation. Trust me, I don't like this. I wish the god for was completely above everyone else, then I would be fine with it being universal. And SSG was above everyone else in the BoG saga, so it was ok then. But now it is basically just another ssj transformation that Frieza was able to catch up to in 4 months, lol.

User avatar
mysticboy
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1608
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:54 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by mysticboy » Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:02 am

dragon boss z wrote:While I agree with Seth that the Super writers don't have total say what happens and that there are different writers for different episodes, those tweets are proof that some of the writers don't really consider Goku universe level. Only after being pushed did Toshi say he might be. While I agree the episode back then made it seem like he was, it seems like they just through that power out the window. God power isn't even special at this point anymore. Do you really think Kale has above universal durability?
Yes. If she tanked a ToP arc SSJB kamehameha, then hell yes.

Goku being universal in the BoG arc is directly Toriyama's doing. The statements by the Old Kai and narrator, and the fact that the same feat is in the manga is Toryama telling us that Goku is indeed universal. A Toei staff member's opinion be damned.

User avatar
Ki Breaker
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6572
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:15 am
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Ki Breaker » Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:45 am

Steven Bloodriver wrote:
Ki Breaker wrote:
Steven Bloodriver wrote:Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black (Before Potara Fusion) vs. Merged Zamasu (Half-Corrupted).
Rosé takes it..
Merged Zamasu completely lost all the cool and level headed personality and his power went down as soon as he was corrupted..
but knowing our views which differ on everything, you probably disagree with this don't you pal :P
1) I completely agree with you on this, Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black would pull out a win against Merged Zamasu (Half-Corrupted). But would probably be in need of some rest, as dealing with an Eternal God is no laughing matter.

2) Potara Fusion of Master Roshi and Goku Black vs. Potara Fusion of General Blue and Base Form Zarbon.
1- [spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

2- Black alone takes this..
SSG was universe buster, SSB is plenty more powerful than that, and SSR takes it a step further
The Lord moves in mysterious ways but you don't have to. Please use your blinker

User avatar
Zamasu55
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1784
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:05 pm

dragon boss z wrote:Final form Frieza vs ssj Caulifla

At first I was think U6 saiyans might be stronger but after this idk
[spoiler]Image
Image[/spoiler]
You're right, she gets one-shotted.

User avatar
Steven Bloodriver
I Live Here
Posts: 3477
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:06 pm

Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Steven Bloodriver » Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:15 pm

Ki Breaker wrote:
Steven Bloodriver wrote:
Ki Breaker wrote: Rosé takes it..
Merged Zamasu completely lost all the cool and level headed personality and his power went down as soon as he was corrupted..
but knowing our views which differ on everything, you probably disagree with this don't you pal :P
1) I completely agree with you on this, Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black would pull out a win against Merged Zamasu (Half-Corrupted). But would probably be in need of some rest, as dealing with an Eternal God is no laughing matter.

2) Potara Fusion of Master Roshi and Goku Black vs. Potara Fusion of General Blue and Base Form Zarbon.
1- [spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

2- Black alone takes this..
SSG was universe buster, SSB is plenty more powerful than that, and SSR takes it a step further
1) I don't get the reference.
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

2) Ultra Super Saiyan Future Trunks vs. Semi-Perfect Cell (Kaioken Times Two).

Post Reply