JazzMazz wrote:PFM18 wrote:JazzMazz wrote:Also, I agree with you that base Cabba wouldn't in a million years, as of the TOP, be able to even slightly annoy Super Vegetto.
I think he would still be fodderized by Super Vegetto, even with his SS2.
I missed this little blurb. Cabba was even with Base Vegeta who was stronger than the Goku who's SSJ was>SSG. They got way stronger in their training with Whis and then trained for an additional 3 years and Cabba was STILL even with Vegeta. He would atleast be somewhere close to Buu Arc Super Vegetto in his Base and he would completely slaughter Vegetto if they are both Super Saiyan
I know you seem to think that there was a retcon but your only defense is the Lavender/Basil scenes.
Goku's SS was never greater than SSG. The most you could say was that his Super Saiyan form was equal to, or less than God(per Beerus dominating a good portion of that fight and wondering if Goku really had lost the God power).
I thought it was made abundantly clear that as a golden SSJ Goku had surpassed SSG when Beerus said that he infused the power, Goku didn't notice until Beerus told him, and then stated he was at the same strength. He was established to be at the same strength, and then Beerus still dominates him but this isn't at all evidence that he got weaker. Beerus was going to dominate him regardless of what happened, he is leaps and bounds above him. Even if Goku suddenly went SSBKKx20 in that scene he still would have lost so this is a poor argument. So it was established that SSJ=SSG, then Beerus provokes Goku into drawing out more power and Goku pushes Beerus back and he has the SSJ except with the red aura this time. In that moment, he clearly surpassed SSG and there's no evidence he got weaker from there.(Not to mention the episode that Goku "drops" out of SSG and into golden SSJ is literally titled "
Surpass a Super Saiyan God".)In fact, there's evidence he got even stronger than that when he evaporated Beerus's blast after that.
Also, there is nothing to suggest that Vegeta's base form was ever stronger than Goku's Super Saiyan form from back then.
I apologize I did not make my point clear on that. I was not trying to say:
Base Vegeta>SSJ Goku(BoG post-ritual)
I was trying to say:
U6 Vegeta>>Goku(BoG post-ritual) as in any equivalent form. Vegeta's Base would be stronger than Goku's base from back then and Vegeta's SSJ is much stronger than Goku's SSJ from back then. But Vegeta's base was not stronger than Goku's SSJ from back then.
I also bring up Piccolo and Gohan, and his performance with the base Saiyans as a defence of them still being ridiculously powerful, but still nowhere near the God tier that everyone thinks they are(for some reason).
Piccolo never showed anything that suggested superiority over the Base Saiyans during that time so I don't know why you brought him up. Gohan's base during ROF was stronger than Piccolo, then he had been training since ROF and so by the time him and Goku were sparring Gohan was probably extremely strong. Additionally, during their sparring match Goku explicitly admitted to holding back so this isn't in any way evidence that they are weaker than I am suggesting.
To be clear, I am not suggesting Base Saiyans>SSG Goku BoG I am just saying SSJ Goku(post-ritual)>SSG Goku BoG and by the point of the U6 Arc Goku and Vegeta's SSJ forms were far superior to SSG Goku from BoG. And I don't just think this "for some reason" that is the story being told in the show and I am just paying close attention to it.
At this point, to say that Buu Arc SSJ Vegetto>SSJ Cabba is just factually incorrect. There's hardly any, if any at all, evidence that is the case.
Roshi took on Ganos, someone who I doubt is weaker than the Ginyu Force. Roshi's skill may have played a big role during that fight, but I doubt it was skill alone that enabled him to do so well.
How do you have any clue how strong Ganos is? For all we know he is just fodder and one of the only characters Roshi could beat.
