The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[jeffbr92]

Base Kale vs Raditz

Raditz finger flicks.

[PFM18]

Base Kale vs Raditz

Raditz finger flicks.

Why?

Also:

ROF 1st Form Freeza vs Super Buu
Base Cabba vs Final form Frost
Hit vs SSJ Rose Goku Black
SSJ3 Vegetto(Buu arc) vs Base Vegeta(End of Super)
Super Speed Mode Dyspo vs current SSB Vegeta
SSJ2 Cabba vs Ultimate Mode Katopesla

[DB▪Magnum-Expert]

ROF 1st Form Freeza vs Super Buu

First form Frieza stomps, although this barely has any support, I'll take it in that direction

Base Cabba vs Final form Frost

Frost stomps

Hit vs SSJ Rose Goku Black

Hit solos with utmost ease

SSJ3 Vegetto(Buu arc) vs Base Vegeta(End of Super)

RoF Base Vegeta rapes

Super Speed Mode Dyspo vs current SSB Vegeta

Current SsjB Vegeta rofstomps

SSJ2 Cabba vs Ultimate Mode Katopesla

Ultimate Mode Katopesla takes it

[DB▪Magnum-Expert]

Base Kale vs Raditz

Base Kale solos DBZ. She's kind of downplayed just because she has been portrayed as weak but she just didn't have any courage at all to fight in base.

[DB▪Magnum-Expert]

Manga Hit vs Anime Hit

Anime hits babytaps. Anime characters scale far higher than Manga ones

Manga Bergamo vs Anime Android 18

Android 18 stomps. Bergamo in the Manga is utter fodder.

Manga Android 18 vs Anime SSJ1 Goku

Goku flicks. Anime Base Goku is far above SsjG BoG Goku

Manga Ribrianne vs Anime Bergamo (No Absorption)

Bergamo takes the cake

Manga Napapa vs Anime Basil (No Drug)

Basil takes it

Manga Jiren vs Anime Jiren (Potential not yet unlocked)

Anime Jiren Shitstomps

[PFM18]

ROF 1st Form Freeza vs Super Buu

First form Frieza stomps, although this barely has any support, I'll take it in that direction

Base Cabba vs Final form Frost

Frost stomps

Hit vs SSJ Rose Goku Black

Hit solos with utmost ease

SSJ3 Vegetto(Buu arc) vs Base Vegeta(End of Super)

RoF Base Vegeta rapes

Super Speed Mode Dyspo vs current SSB Vegeta

Current SsjB Vegeta rofstomps

SSJ2 Cabba vs Ultimate Mode Katopesla

Ultimate Mode Katopesla takes it

I agree on WHO would win but I don't think any of them are a stomp.

Also there's no way that by ROF Vegeta was stronger than SSJ3 Vegetto from the Buu arc

[Zamasu55]

ROF 1st Form Freeza vs Super Buu
Base Cabba vs Final form Frost
Hit vs SSJ Rose Goku Black
SSJ3 Vegetto(Buu arc) vs Base Vegeta(End of Super)
Super Speed Mode Dyspo vs current SSB Vegeta
SSJ2 Cabba vs Ultimate Mode Katopesla

- All we know is that First form Freeza was massively stronger than a weakened Ssj Gohan. It's hard to compare him to other characters honestly, at least for me.
- Frost. The show makes it pretty clear: Vegeta (and Goku) needed Ssj to beat him, while he fights evenly with Cabba in his base form.
- You need to be specific. I think you meant the latest version of Black, the one with the schyte, right?
Let's start by saying that Black knows all about Hit, since he watched his fight against Goku. Anyway;
1) Hit (Champa saga) doesn't stand a chance against SsjR Black Goku, even in his very first appearence.
2) Hit (fillers) might just kill him instantly. But if Black manages to revive himself as Goku did, it'd be tough for the assassin as Black can become stronger and his clones are very dangerous.
3) Hit (ToP) probably wins. Not only did he get stronger (Goku straight out said this after Hit's fight with Dyspo), but he's also got a unique ability which would give him the win very quickly.
- Vegito slaughters even with Ssj. The "Beyond God" state doesn't exist since ROF, so it's just Base Vegeta after a bunch of years of traning. That's not nearly enough even to handle Buu (who easily beat Goku during their fight), let alone Vegito.
- If it's a regular SsjB, then Dyspo wins.
- Cabba pretty easily.

[PFM18]

Vegito slaughters even with Ssj. The "Beyond God" state doesn't exist since ROF, so it's just Base Vegeta after a bunch of years of traning. That's not nearly enough even to handle Buu (who easily beat Goku during their fight), let alone Vegito.

The "beyond god" stuff was never the case in DBS. The only time that was implied to be the case was in promotional material for the movie ROF.

In DBS, when they had an entire rest of the series in mind, that was never implied to be the case. Narratively it makes absolutely no sense.

Instead, BoG made it clear that the SSG power was infused with his SSJ form, Beerus stating he infused the power as he is in SSJ, and he only does slightly better as a SSJ where if his base surpassed SSG, he would have immediately gained a huge advantage. Additionally, the narrator didnt state Goku had surpassed SSG until he went SSB, if Saiyan Beyond God was the case, it would have been prior to that.

If there was never an infusion of their SSG power, and they didnt get an astronomical boost, it never would have been possible for:
-First form Freeza to dominate everyone and then go Final form and still lose to Base Goku.
-for Copy Vegeta to dominate SSJ3 Gotenks
-for Goku to compete with Beerus in the monaka costume in base
-For Goku to compete with a very powered up fat buu in base. (Without even appearing to be trying)

So to say he couodnt even beat Buu arc Fat Buu in base isn't consistent with the story being told.

I believe base Vegeta at the end of Super wouldn't dominate Buu arc SSJ3 Vegetto but I think he would have a decent sized advantage

[Zamasu55]

Vegito slaughters even with Ssj. The "Beyond God" state doesn't exist since ROF, so it's just Base Vegeta after a bunch of years of traning. That's not nearly enough even to handle Buu (who easily beat Goku during their fight), let alone Vegito.

If there was never an infusion of their SSG power, and they didnt get an astronomical boost, it never would have been possible for:
-First form Freeza to dominate everyone and then go Final form and still lose to Base Goku.
-for Copy Vegeta to dominate SSJ3 Gotenks
-for Goku to compete with Beerus in the monaka costume in base
-For Goku to compete with a very powered up fat buu in base. (Without even appearing to be trying)

So to say he couodnt even beat Buu arc Fat Buu in base isn't consistent with the story being told.

I believe base Vegeta at the end of Super wouldn't dominate Buu arc SSJ3 Vegetto but I think he would have a decent sized advantage

- That's still part of the RoF arc. Plus, he only dominated a heavily weakened Ssj Gohan.
- You're right. But it was retconned, just like Beerus's power. Or Ribrianne.
- Same as above.
- Well, Buu was clearly playing and, in the end, beat him fairly easily.

In the last arc, Base Goku:
- Needed Ssj against Krillin (!!!)
- Fought evenly with Roshi (!!!!!!)
- Couldn't overpower someone like Ganos, that was much, much weaker than Roshi (who wasn't even fighting seriously at first).
- Couldn't harm Chappil.
- Lost in an embarassing way to Tupper, who later jobbed to 18.

And I could go on.

[PFM18]

Vegito slaughters even with Ssj. The "Beyond God" state doesn't exist since ROF, so it's just Base Vegeta after a bunch of years of traning. That's not nearly enough even to handle Buu (who easily beat Goku during their fight), let alone Vegito.

If there was never an infusion of their SSG power, and they didnt get an astronomical boost, it never would have been possible for:
-First form Freeza to dominate everyone and then go Final form and still lose to Base Goku.
-for Copy Vegeta to dominate SSJ3 Gotenks
-for Goku to compete with Beerus in the monaka costume in base
-For Goku to compete with a very powered up fat buu in base. (Without even appearing to be trying)

So to say he couodnt even beat Buu arc Fat Buu in base isn't consistent with the story being told.

I believe base Vegeta at the end of Super wouldn't dominate Buu arc SSJ3 Vegetto but I think he would have a decent sized advantage

- That's still part of the RoF arc. Plus, he only dominated a heavily weakened Ssj Gohan.
- You're right. But it was retconned, just like Beerus's power. Or Ribrianne.
- Same as above.
- Well, Buu was clearly playing and, in the end, beat him fairly easily.

In the last arc, Base Goku:
- Needed Ssj against Krillin (!!!)
- Fought evenly with Roshi (!!!!!!)
- Couldn't overpower someone like Ganos, that was much, much weaker than Roshi (who wasn't even fighting seriously at first).
- Couldn't harm Chappil.
- Lost in an embarassing way to Tupper, who later jobbed to 18.

And I could go on.

-It was something that further established the God Essence notion.
-Nothing to indicate this was retconned
-Again, nothing to indicate this was retconned
-Buu was "playing" in the sense that he is always playing when he is fighting. That is just his personality. Goku was obviously not taking it seriously.

- Needed Ssj against Krillin (!!!)

-the Krillin scene was just for the sake of Goku trying to get Krillin to not be so easily intimidated all the time. Obviously he was suppressed.

- Fought evenly with Roshi (!!!!!!)

-When he fought Roshi, the lady had flared up his aura indicating she had boosted his power.

-Couldn't overpower someone like Ganos, that was much, much weaker than Roshi (who wasn't even fighting seriously at first).

-When did Goku fight Ganos?

- Couldn't harm Chappil.

-How does this remotely indicate a retcon? Chappil was very durable and there's nothing to indicate that a Goku that infused SSG should HAVE to be able to break through his defenses. It isn't as though we have him to compare with anything from the Buu saga or something to back up your claim that Base Goku couldn't beat Buu. This guy is after all one of the top 10 strongest fighters in his entire universe.(Even if it was the weakest Universe)

- Lost in an embarassing way to Tupper, who later jobbed to 18.

-He didn't "lose in an embarassing way" Tupper simply got behind him and increased his weight. It was the fact that he had him in a bear hug that was the problem. 18's situation was different because he did not catch her off guard and all she had to do was lift her with her arm. This scene was just a function of the idea of power not being everything, like was pushed throughout the tournament. Goku was caught from behind; 18 wasn't. Besides, 18 obviously got stronger and this isn't in any way evidence of a retcon.

For you to claim that there was a retcon, you need to have a strong amount of evidence to support such a claim of invalidating a very prominent point in the story. However, this is hardly strong evidence if evidence at all.

[Zamasu55]

If there was never an infusion of their SSG power, and they didnt get an astronomical boost, it never would have been possible for:
-First form Freeza to dominate everyone and then go Final form and still lose to Base Goku.
-for Copy Vegeta to dominate SSJ3 Gotenks
-for Goku to compete with Beerus in the monaka costume in base
-For Goku to compete with a very powered up fat buu in base. (Without even appearing to be trying)

So to say he couodnt even beat Buu arc Fat Buu in base isn't consistent with the story being told.

I believe base Vegeta at the end of Super wouldn't dominate Buu arc SSJ3 Vegetto but I think he would have a decent sized advantage

- That's still part of the RoF arc. Plus, he only dominated a heavily weakened Ssj Gohan.
- You're right. But it was retconned, just like Beerus's power. Or Ribrianne.
- Same as above.
- Well, Buu was clearly playing and, in the end, beat him fairly easily.

In the last arc, Base Goku:
- Needed Ssj against Krillin (!!!)
- Fought evenly with Roshi (!!!!!!)
- Couldn't overpower someone like Ganos, that was much, much weaker than Roshi (who wasn't even fighting seriously at first).
- Couldn't harm Chappil.
- Lost in an embarassing way to Tupper, who later jobbed to 18.

And I could go on.

-It was something that further established the God Essence notion.
-Nothing to indicate this was retconned
-Again, nothing to indicate this was retconned
-Buu was "playing" in the sense that he is always playing when he is fighting. That is just his personality. Goku was obviously not taking it seriously.

- Which was abandoned later in the show and I gave you the examples.
- Yes, because Goku and Vegeta struggled against people much weaker than Ssj3 Gotenks.
- Buu can still take fights seriously, just like he did against Drugged Basil. He was toying with Goku and beat him pretty easily at the end. This is a fact.

[Zamasu55]

- Needed Ssj against Krillin (!!!)

-the Krillin scene was just for the sake of Goku trying to get Krillin to not be so easily intimidated all the time. Obviously he was suppressed.

- Fought evenly with Roshi (!!!!!!)

-When he fought Roshi, the lady had flared up his aura indicating she had boosted his power.

-Couldn't overpower someone like Ganos, that was much, much weaker than Roshi (who wasn't even fighting seriously at first).

-When did Goku fight Ganos?

- Couldn't harm Chappil.

-How does this remotely indicate a retcon? Chappil was very durable and there's nothing to indicate that a Goku that infused SSG should HAVE to be able to break through his defenses. It isn't as though we have him to compare with anything from the Buu saga or something to back up your claim that Base Goku couldn't beat Buu. This guy is after all one of the top 10 strongest fighters in his entire universe.(Even if it was the weakest Universe)

- Lost in an embarassing way to Tupper, who later jobbed to 18.

-He didn't "lose in an embarassing way" Tupper simply got behind him and increased his weight. It was the fact that he had him in a bear hug that was the problem. 18's situation was different because he did not catch her off guard and all she had to do was lift her with her arm. This scene was just a function of the idea of power not being everything, like was pushed throughout the tournament. Goku was caught from behind; 18 wasn't. Besides, 18 obviously got stronger and this isn't in any way evidence of a retcon.

For you to claim that there was a retcon, you need to have a strong amount of evidence to support such a claim of invalidating a very prominent point in the story. However, this is hardly strong evidence if evidence at all.

- First off that sounds ridiculous, second they said that Goku used Ssj Blue to "motivate" Krillin, not the regular Ssj, which was clearly used because Goku was struggling. How pathetic.
- And the point is? Roshi should be billions, trillions of times weaker than Base Goku, and he should never be able to fight on par with him, no matter what magic increases his power. But that's Super in a nutshell.
- In ep. 97, and he struggled a bit.
- Chappil was just a fodder who got oneshotted by Ssj Goku, with a ki blast.
- If Goku was so strong in base he'd immediately free himself from that bear hug. And I'd like to know how 18 got stronger, all she did was spar for 5 minutes with Krillin in her garden. Does that make her God-tier?

[PFM18]

- Needed Ssj against Krillin (!!!)

-the Krillin scene was just for the sake of Goku trying to get Krillin to not be so easily intimidated all the time. Obviously he was suppressed.

- Fought evenly with Roshi (!!!!!!)

-When he fought Roshi, the lady had flared up his aura indicating she had boosted his power.

-Couldn't overpower someone like Ganos, that was much, much weaker than Roshi (who wasn't even fighting seriously at first).

-When did Goku fight Ganos?

- Couldn't harm Chappil.

-How does this remotely indicate a retcon? Chappil was very durable and there's nothing to indicate that a Goku that infused SSG should HAVE to be able to break through his defenses. It isn't as though we have him to compare with anything from the Buu saga or something to back up your claim that Base Goku couldn't beat Buu. This guy is after all one of the top 10 strongest fighters in his entire universe.(Even if it was the weakest Universe)

- Lost in an embarassing way to Tupper, who later jobbed to 18.

-He didn't "lose in an embarassing way" Tupper simply got behind him and increased his weight. It was the fact that he had him in a bear hug that was the problem. 18's situation was different because he did not catch her off guard and all she had to do was lift her with her arm. This scene was just a function of the idea of power not being everything, like was pushed throughout the tournament. Goku was caught from behind; 18 wasn't. Besides, 18 obviously got stronger and this isn't in any way evidence of a retcon.

For you to claim that there was a retcon, you need to have a strong amount of evidence to support such a claim of invalidating a very prominent point in the story. However, this is hardly strong evidence if evidence at all.

- First off that sounds ridiculous, second they said that Goku used Ssj Blue to "motivate" Krillin, not the regular Ssj, which was clearly used because Goku was struggling. How pathetic.
- And the point is? Roshi should be billions, trillions of times weaker than Base Goku, and he should never be able to fight on par with him, no matter what magic increases his power. But that's Super in a nutshell.
- In ep. 97, and he struggled a bit.
- Chappil was just a fodder who got oneshotted by Ssj Goku, with a ki blast.
- If Goku was so strong in base he'd immediately free himself from that bear hug. And I'd like to know how 18 got stronger, all she did was spar for 5 minutes with Krillin in her garden. Does that make her God-tier?

-Ok great it sounds ridiculous except it was clearly shown on screen. Even though he used SSJ that doesn't mean he still wasn't heavily suppressed.
-Yes. Obviously. That is the case for Roshi regardless of if the SSG infusion happened or not. Goku should still be several magnitudes stronger either way and this isn't at all evidence of a retccon.
-Just rewatched it. Despite Ganos blocking he still gets blown across the stage. Hardly a good example. There was no such struggle.
-Ok great. This is a character that we know little about his power so this doesn't in any way show that Goku is weaker and there was a retcon. If anything, this is evidence that there was not a retcon.
-No not really. The tournament was made more exciting because of circumstances like this. Where power isn't the only element involved here, for example here, the element of surprise. 18 clearly got stronger since she was able to beat Ribrianne. Don't ask me how or why but this is the case. Again, this doesn't

In the end there is scarce evidence of a retcon of the "God Essence" sort of thing. The "Saiyan Beyond God" crap was only a thing in the movies and it was never a thing in DBS, instead the infusion is within Goku's SSJ form, but this is still an astronomical boost and by the time of the ToP Goku's base is leaps and bounds above everything shown in DBZ.

[supercat]

Base Kale vs Raditz

Raditz finger flicks.

Why?

Also:

ROF 1st Form Freeza vs Super Buu
Base Cabba vs Final form Frost
Hit vs SSJ Rose Goku Black
SSJ3 Vegetto(Buu arc) vs Base Vegeta(End of Super)
Super Speed Mode Dyspo vs current SSB Vegeta
SSJ2 Cabba vs Ultimate Mode Katopesla

First Form Frieza wins effortlessly. SSJ Gohan, who likely isn't much weaker than his Ultimate self, was flat-out humiliated by a Frieza who was nonchalantly kicking back in his hover chair.

Any version of Base Vegeta in Super (after training with Whis) should be able to effortlessly wreck SSJ Vegetto (Buu saga) along with all forms of Buu. That said, Vegeta likely doesn't quite reach SSJ3 Vegetto-tier til a little later. I would say by the events of RoF, Base Vegeta is more or less 2-3x stronger than SSJ Vegetto (Buu saga), while he becomes at least twice as strong as SSJ3 Vegetto during the later part of the Zamasu battle.


Super Speed Mode Dyspo is presumably stronger than the whole SSB Goku / Vegeta / Android 17 / Golden Frieza level of power.

[PFM18]

Raditz finger flicks.

Why?

Also:

ROF 1st Form Freeza vs Super Buu
Base Cabba vs Final form Frost
Hit vs SSJ Rose Goku Black
SSJ3 Vegetto(Buu arc) vs Base Vegeta(End of Super)
Super Speed Mode Dyspo vs current SSB Vegeta
SSJ2 Cabba vs Ultimate Mode Katopesla

First Form Frieza wins effortlessly. SSJ Gohan, who likely isn't much weaker than his Ultimate self, was flat-out humiliated by a Frieza who was nonchalantly kicking back in his hover chair.

Any version of Base Vegeta in Super (after training with Whis) should be able to effortlessly wreck SSJ Vegetto (Buu saga) along with all forms of Buu. That said, Vegeta likely doesn't quite reach SSJ3 Vegetto-tier til a little later. I would say by the events of RoF, Base Vegeta is more or less 2-3x stronger than SSJ Vegetto (Buu saga), while he becomes at least twice as strong as SSJ3 Vegetto during the later part of the Zamasu battle.


Super Speed Mode Dyspo is presumably stronger than the whole SSB Goku / Vegeta / Android 17 / Golden Frieza level of power.

I mostly agree with everything you said. I think that Vegeta doesn't reach SSJ3 Vegetto tier until after his trip to the ROSAT during the Zamasu arc, but I don't think that he ever gets 2-3x stronger than SSJ3 Vegetto at any point in the story. By the end of the story I think he has a significant edge but not an overwhelming one over SSJ3 Vegetto.(2x would qualify as overwhelming.)

[supercat]

Why?

Also:

ROF 1st Form Freeza vs Super Buu
Base Cabba vs Final form Frost
Hit vs SSJ Rose Goku Black
SSJ3 Vegetto(Buu arc) vs Base Vegeta(End of Super)
Super Speed Mode Dyspo vs current SSB Vegeta
SSJ2 Cabba vs Ultimate Mode Katopesla

First Form Frieza wins effortlessly. SSJ Gohan, who likely isn't much weaker than his Ultimate self, was flat-out humiliated by a Frieza who was nonchalantly kicking back in his hover chair.

Any version of Base Vegeta in Super (after training with Whis) should be able to effortlessly wreck SSJ Vegetto (Buu saga) along with all forms of Buu. That said, Vegeta likely doesn't quite reach SSJ3 Vegetto-tier til a little later. I would say by the events of RoF, Base Vegeta is more or less 2-3x stronger than SSJ Vegetto (Buu saga), while he becomes at least twice as strong as SSJ3 Vegetto during the later part of the Zamasu battle.


Super Speed Mode Dyspo is presumably stronger than the whole SSB Goku / Vegeta / Android 17 / Golden Frieza level of power.

I mostly agree with everything you said. I think that Vegeta doesn't reach SSJ3 Vegetto tier until after his trip to the ROSAT during the Zamasu arc, but I don't think that he ever gets 2-3x stronger than SSJ3 Vegetto at any point in the story. By the end of the story I think he has a significant edge but not an overwhelming one over SSJ3 Vegetto.(2x would qualify as overwhelming.)

Well that could work too. I personally feel that whether Base Vegeta is 2-3x or 1.5x stronger than SSJ3 Vegetto isn't really as relevant as the fact that the latter would go down rather easily if the two were to battle.

I would say Base Vegeta is likely SSJ3 Vegetto-tier by the time he was able to wreck Goku Black as an SSB.

[PFM18]

First Form Frieza wins effortlessly. SSJ Gohan, who likely isn't much weaker than his Ultimate self, was flat-out humiliated by a Frieza who was nonchalantly kicking back in his hover chair.

Any version of Base Vegeta in Super (after training with Whis) should be able to effortlessly wreck SSJ Vegetto (Buu saga) along with all forms of Buu. That said, Vegeta likely doesn't quite reach SSJ3 Vegetto-tier til a little later. I would say by the events of RoF, Base Vegeta is more or less 2-3x stronger than SSJ Vegetto (Buu saga), while he becomes at least twice as strong as SSJ3 Vegetto during the later part of the Zamasu battle.


Super Speed Mode Dyspo is presumably stronger than the whole SSB Goku / Vegeta / Android 17 / Golden Frieza level of power.

I mostly agree with everything you said. I think that Vegeta doesn't reach SSJ3 Vegetto tier until after his trip to the ROSAT during the Zamasu arc, but I don't think that he ever gets 2-3x stronger than SSJ3 Vegetto at any point in the story. By the end of the story I think he has a significant edge but not an overwhelming one over SSJ3 Vegetto.(2x would qualify as overwhelming.)

Well that could work too. I personally feel that whether Base Vegeta is 2-3x or 1.5x stronger than SSJ3 Vegetto isn't really as relevant as the fact that the latter would go down rather easily if the two were to battle.

I would say Base Vegeta is likely SSJ3 Vegetto-tier by the time he was able to wreck Goku Black as an SSB.

Yeah whether it is a 1.5x difference or 2-3x a difference is largely irrelevant. But I subscribe more to the former because I think the latter would imply he surpassed BoG SSG and me personally I just dont think that is the case.

[supercat]

I mostly agree with everything you said. I think that Vegeta doesn't reach SSJ3 Vegetto tier until after his trip to the ROSAT during the Zamasu arc, but I don't think that he ever gets 2-3x stronger than SSJ3 Vegetto at any point in the story. By the end of the story I think he has a significant edge but not an overwhelming one over SSJ3 Vegetto.(2x would qualify as overwhelming.)

Well that could work too. I personally feel that whether Base Vegeta is 2-3x or 1.5x stronger than SSJ3 Vegetto isn't really as relevant as the fact that the latter would go down rather easily if the two were to battle.

I would say Base Vegeta is likely SSJ3 Vegetto-tier by the time he was able to wreck Goku Black as an SSB.

Yeah whether it is a 1.5x difference or 2-3x a difference is largely irrelevant. But I subscribe more to the former because I think the latter would imply he surpassed BoG SSG and me personally I just dont think that is the case.

I think there's a good chance SSJ Goku / Vegeta both surpassed ritual form Goku (vs Beerus on the ship), but their base forms getting that strong seems like a stretch. As for this hypothetical SSJ3 Vegetto, I feel he'd still be far weaker than the ritual form Goku that faced off against Beerus. It's more than likely that Goku took SSJ3 Vegetto into consideration when he realized fusion would be futile. This form of SSJ3 Vegetto would be far stronger than a hypothetical SSJ3 Vegetto from the Buu saga given how SSJ3 Goku had powered up a bit since then; it was strongly implied to be stronger than Ultimate Gohan.

SSB Goku / SSB Vegeta / Android 17 / Golden Frieza > Ultimate Gohan > Ritual Form Goku (current) >> SSJ3 Goku > SSJ2 Goku / Vegeta > SSJ Goku > / = Ritual Form Goku (vs Beerus on the ship) >> Base Vegeta (ToP) > Base Vegeta (final Zamasu battle) > / = SSJ3 Vegetto (hypothetical vs Beerus) > SSJ3 Vegetto (Buu saga) > SSJ2 Vegetto (Buu saga) > SSJ Vegetto >> Buuhan > Buutenks > Ultimate Gohan > SSJ3 Gotenks > Super Buu > Mr. Buu

[PFM18]

Well that could work too. I personally feel that whether Base Vegeta is 2-3x or 1.5x stronger than SSJ3 Vegetto isn't really as relevant as the fact that the latter would go down rather easily if the two were to battle.

I would say Base Vegeta is likely SSJ3 Vegetto-tier by the time he was able to wreck Goku Black as an SSB.

Yeah whether it is a 1.5x difference or 2-3x a difference is largely irrelevant. But I subscribe more to the former because I think the latter would imply he surpassed BoG SSG and me personally I just dont think that is the case.

I think there's a good chance SSJ Goku / Vegeta both surpassed ritual form Goku (vs Beerus on the ship), but their base forms getting that strong seems like a stretch. As for this hypothetical SSJ3 Vegetto, I feel he'd still be far weaker than the ritual form Goku that faced off against Beerus. It's more than likely that Goku took SSJ3 Vegetto into consideration when he realized fusion would be futile. This form of SSJ3 Vegetto would be far stronger than a hypothetical SSJ3 Vegetto from the Buu saga given how SSJ3 Goku had powered up a bit since then; it was strongly implied to be stronger than Ultimate Gohan.

SSB Goku / SSB Vegeta / Android 17 / Golden Frieza > Ultimate Gohan > Ritual Form Goku (current) >> SSJ3 Goku > SSJ2 Goku / Vegeta > SSJ Goku > / = Ritual Form Goku (vs Beerus on the ship) >> Base Vegeta (ToP) > Base Vegeta (final Zamasu battle) > / = SSJ3 Vegetto (hypothetical vs Beerus) > SSJ3 Vegetto (Buu saga) > SSJ2 Vegetto (Buu saga) > SSJ Vegetto >> Buuhan > Buutenks > Ultimate Gohan > SSJ3 Gotenks > Super Buu > Mr. Buu

Goku and Vegeta are far beyond SSG from BoG but their base forms are not. I am not entirely sure what you are saying the rest of the post

[supercat]

Yeah whether it is a 1.5x difference or 2-3x a difference is largely irrelevant. But I subscribe more to the former because I think the latter would imply he surpassed BoG SSG and me personally I just dont think that is the case.

I think there's a good chance SSJ Goku / Vegeta both surpassed ritual form Goku (vs Beerus on the ship), but their base forms getting that strong seems like a stretch. As for this hypothetical SSJ3 Vegetto, I feel he'd still be far weaker than the ritual form Goku that faced off against Beerus. It's more than likely that Goku took SSJ3 Vegetto into consideration when he realized fusion would be futile. This form of SSJ3 Vegetto would be far stronger than a hypothetical SSJ3 Vegetto from the Buu saga given how SSJ3 Goku had powered up a bit since then; it was strongly implied to be stronger than Ultimate Gohan.

SSB Goku / SSB Vegeta / Android 17 / Golden Frieza > Ultimate Gohan > Ritual Form Goku (current) >> SSJ3 Goku > SSJ2 Goku / Vegeta > SSJ Goku > / = Ritual Form Goku (vs Beerus on the ship) >> Base Vegeta (ToP) > Base Vegeta (final Zamasu battle) > / = SSJ3 Vegetto (hypothetical vs Beerus) > SSJ3 Vegetto (Buu saga) > SSJ2 Vegetto (Buu saga) > SSJ Vegetto >> Buuhan > Buutenks > Ultimate Gohan > SSJ3 Gotenks > Super Buu > Mr. Buu

Goku and Vegeta are far beyond SSG from BoG but their base forms are not. I am not entirely sure what you are saying the rest of the post

I'm saying while their base forms didn't quite surpass the Ritual Form Goku that battled Beerus on the ship, their SSJs likely did.

Current SSJ > Ritual Form Goku (vs Beerus) > Base Goku / Vegeta (ToP).