The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by PFM18 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:40 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Goku doesn’t literally become stronger than SSG in the SS form
Believe whatever you want
This is not a nice way to put it. Just to be clear, I don’t care if you or some other people have a different opinion than mine. We don’t have to agree. The issue is about how you present your view. I’m just doing my best to contribute to this thread, which is checking the legal source and the input from fluent Japanese speakers about the discussion at hand and bringing them up. You decide if you agree or not.
I apologize that was rude. Point is, the fact that the show made it very clear he absorbed the god power, easily beat SSJ3 Gotenks and was atleast even(didn't seem very serious) against a significantly powered up Buu. Therefore, Goku's base is really freaking strong.(Don't recall exactly what the debate was specifically about his strength)

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:58 pm

PFM18 wrote: And we have no reason to think that Gokus opponents shouldnt be BoG tier because at the end of the day we dont know these characters and they are the strongest in their respective entire universes so they should be very strong
I mean final form Frieza being presented as being >>>every U6 fighter besides Hit, berserk Kale, and the namekians is a pretty good reason to consider them not being BoG tier.

I do think the U6 saiyans are stronger than Buu saga saiyans, which is already crazy, but I don't think they are supposed to be SSG level (besides Kale). I know some things might imply that, but I highly doubt that is intended.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by PFM18 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:13 pm

dragon boss z wrote:
PFM18 wrote: And we have no reason to think that Gokus opponents shouldnt be BoG tier because at the end of the day we dont know these characters and they are the strongest in their respective entire universes so they should be very strong
I mean final form Frieza being presented as being >>>every U6 fighter besides Hit, berserk Kale, and the namekians is a pretty good reason to consider them not being BoG tier.

I do think the U6 saiyans are stronger than Buu saga saiyans, which is already crazy, but I don't think they are supposed to be SSG level (besides Kale). I know some things might imply that, but I highly doubt that is intended.
Golden Freeza is >>>>> every U6 fighter besides Hit. That is shown when Freeza has to go Golden against Cabba. He comments about Cabba being strong and how he despises saiyans etc etc. But Ultimately he neeed Golden. The fact that they are fairly even with Goku in each form is all evidence you need that they are SSG tier. of course none of them are actually stronger than SSG goku from BoG until they go SSJ. (I don't believe any of the base Saiyans surpass SSG goku from BoG in Base.)

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:35 am

PFM18 wrote:
Hugo Boss wrote:
PFM18 wrote: Believe whatever you want
This is not a nice way to put it. Just to be clear, I don’t care if you or some other people have a different opinion than mine. We don’t have to agree. The issue is about how you present your view. I’m just doing my best to contribute to this thread, which is checking the legal source and the input from fluent Japanese speakers about the discussion at hand and bringing them up. You decide if you agree or not.
I apologize that was rude. Point is, the fact that the show made it very clear he absorbed the god power, easily beat SSJ3 Gotenks and was atleast even(didn't seem very serious) against a significantly powered up Buu. Therefore, Goku's base is really freaking strong.(Don't recall exactly what the debate was specifically about his strength)
Boo’s power-up was debated last year. The way Goku’s line is build is ambiguous, because he could be telling either that Boo’s power is amazing as always or that he got stronger. The only thing specifically noted to have increased was his speed.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:42 pm

PFM18 wrote: Golden Freeza is >>>>> every U6 fighter besides Hit. That is shown when Freeza has to go Golden against Cabba. He comments about Cabba being strong and how he despises saiyans etc etc. But Ultimately he neeed Golden. The fact that they are fairly even with Goku in each form is all evidence you need that they are SSG tier. of course none of them are actually stronger than SSG goku from BoG until they go SSJ. (I don't believe any of the base Saiyans surpass SSG goku from BoG in Base.)
Frieza didn't have to go gold on Cabba. I'm not 100% sure on the correct translation, but right after he beat Cabba he said he went gold to get rid of him quickly so he would save energy, or that going gold on an opponent of that level was a waist.
I have a hard time believing ssj or even ssj2 Cabba could actually compete with Dyspo like Frieza did.
Also final form Frieza seemed confident in fighting ssj2 Caulifla and mastered berserk Kale at the same time.
We might get a better picture of how their powers are supposed to line up in the manga.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by PFM18 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:33 pm

dragon boss z wrote:
PFM18 wrote: Golden Freeza is >>>>> every U6 fighter besides Hit. That is shown when Freeza has to go Golden against Cabba. He comments about Cabba being strong and how he despises saiyans etc etc. But Ultimately he neeed Golden. The fact that they are fairly even with Goku in each form is all evidence you need that they are SSG tier. of course none of them are actually stronger than SSG goku from BoG until they go SSJ. (I don't believe any of the base Saiyans surpass SSG goku from BoG in Base.)
Frieza didn't have to go gold on Cabba. I'm not 100% sure on the correct translation, but right after he beat Cabba he said he went gold to get rid of him quickly so he would save energy, or that going gold on an opponent of that level was a waist.
I have a hard time believing ssj or even ssj2 Cabba could actually compete with Dyspo like Frieza did.
Also final form Frieza seemed confident in fighting ssj2 Caulifla and mastered berserk Kale at the same time.
We might get a better picture of how their powers are supposed to line up in the manga.
He said that he didnt want to "waste excess energy on trash." That was more of a statement regarding the fact that he hates Saiyans and considers them trash. He had to use Golden otherwise he wouldn't have used it. There is no reason to believe SSJ2 Cabba couldn't have done just as well against Dyspo did prior to turning Golden. He was confident against Cabba and Kale when he was in final form but that doesn't mean that he wouldn't have used Golden. He knows he is stronger than them but that doesn't mean he is confident without Golden. Golden is a massive boost(on the same level as SSB) and he isn't extremely strong without it.

The manga is a different continuity and doesn't shed any light on the anime continuity.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:36 am

PFM18 wrote: He said that he didnt want to "waste excess energy on trash."
That could easily imply he went gold so he wouldn't have to waist energy trying to beat him in his final form.
He had to use Golden otherwise he wouldn't have used it.
Says who? He transformed for an easy victory. Can you give me a good reason he wouldn't go gold to stomp an opponent? That at best proves final form Frieza can't one shot Cabba, but it doesn't mean he couldn't win after a good fight.
There is no reason to believe SSJ2 Cabba couldn't have done just as well against Dyspo did prior to turning Golden.
He had trouble with Monna, who is basically fodder, and Dyspo is a top tier of the ToP. Even Hit needed to play mind games with time skip to beat Dyspo. If Hit couldn't just out brawl Dyspo, how could any version of Cabba even compete?
He was confident against Cabba and Kale when he was in final form but that doesn't mean that he wouldn't have used Golden. He knows he is stronger than them but that doesn't mean he is confident without Golden. Golden is a massive boost(on the same level as SSB) and he isn't extremely strong without it.
He was ready to attack while in final form. Goku even stopped his attack.
The manga is a different continuity and doesn't shed any light on the anime continuity.
It could shed light on authors intent. The manga version of RoF seems to just be the movie version, so if Cabba's base form is really comparable to Goku's he should be on par with final form Frieza in base, but if final form Frieza end up beating ssj or ssj2 Cabba I think that would imply that the U6 saiyans were never god tier. But if Cabba is able to beat on Frieza as a ssj then I would say he could definitely be BoG SSG tier.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by jeffbr92 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:56 pm

- Base to SSJ Kefla vs. Golden Freeza
Power levels are not just big numbers:

by Doctor.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by kn83 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:47 pm

jeffbr92 wrote:- Base to SSJ Kefla vs. Golden Freeza
SSJ Kefla stomps. Its like comparing a KKx20 to a KKx1

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by kn83 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:55 pm

dragon boss z wrote: It could shed light on authors intent. The manga version of RoF seems to just be the movie version, so if Cabba's base form is really comparable to Goku's he should be on par with final form Frieza in base, but if final form Frieza end up beating ssj or ssj2 Cabba I think that would imply that the U6 saiyans were never god tier. But if Cabba is able to beat on Frieza as a ssj then I would say he could definitely be BoG SSG tier.
You are forgetting the fact that Goku, Vegeta and Freeza got much stronger since the RoF and Champa arcs due to more Whis training, more ROSAT training, zenkais from Black and Freeza mental training in Hell. So ToP Final Form Freeza being stronger than even SSJ2 Cabba does not at all mean the U6 saiyan aren't god level, it merely means Goku, Vegeta and Freeza improved much more than Cabba had since those arcs.

Pretty much everything in both versions suggest that the U6 saiyans are god level. Same with 17 and Gohan.

Also, I wouldn't say Monna is fodder because any character that powerscales higher than BoG SSG Goku is not fodder.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Sonofman » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:33 pm

jeffbr92 wrote:- Base to SSJ Kefla vs. Golden Freeza
Base Kefla is above Golden Frieza, but probably not by a lot, since SSB is about equal to Golden Frieza imo. A SSJ Kelfa would wreck Golden Frieza.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by supersaiyangodgogeta » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:53 pm

Nobody in U6 except for Hit is God level. Goku and Vegeta were stated to be nowhere near God level by Whis during ROF before they obtain Blue, yet Goku was God level during his fight with Beerus. So BOG Goku>>>>>ROF Goku before the latter obtains SSB.

Goku not being God level in ROF despite being God level during BOG means he got weaker, so he lost access to the God power that burned inside him during his fight with Beerus as he was explicitly stated to not be God level despite being so before.

For some reason, people seem to think that the God level Super Saiyan shown during BOG is the same that Goku always uses. Super Saiyan Blue is stated to be a "Saiyan with the powers of Super Saiyan God becoming a Super Saiyan". That is what Goku is using during BOG. His Super Saiyan form possessed the power of God.

The Super Saiyan form that Goku is using during BOG is Blue, except the form isn't strong enough at that point to become Blue. We saw this with Black in the manga where his basic Super Saiyan form kept getting stronger and stronger until it became Rose.

To put this situation simply into numbers since a lot of people don't get it.

Base Goku: 90,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku: 4,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Goku: 9,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Goku: 36,000,000,000

Super Saiyan God Goku: 60,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Base Goku(Saiyan Beyond God): 10,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku(God's Crimson Radiance): 60,000,000,000,004,500,000,000

Base Goku(Universe 6 Arc): 10,600,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku: 530,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Goku: 71,232,000,000,000,000,000,000

Base Cabba: 7,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Cabba: 350,000,000,000,000

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:09 am

kn83 wrote: You are forgetting the fact that Goku, Vegeta and Freeza got much stronger since the RoF and Champa arcs due to more Whis training, more ROSAT training, zenkais from Black and Freeza mental training in Hell. So ToP Final Form Freeza being stronger than even SSJ2 Cabba does not at all mean the U6 saiyan aren't god level, it merely means Goku, Vegeta and Freeza improved much more than Cabba had since those arcs.
They didn't get that much stronger. Maybe a couple times at most.
Pretty much everything in both versions suggest that the U6 saiyans are god level. Same with 17 and Gohan.
I agree about 17 and Gohan, and Kale too. But not Cabba and Caulifla. I would say their ssj2 forms are maybe Buuhan level. Maybe ssj Vegito from the buu saga, and that's pushing it.

Also, I wouldn't say Monna is fodder because any character that powerscales higher than BoG SSG Goku is not fodder.
The fact you think Monna is stronger than BoG SSG Goku shows the problem with just trying to scale. She clearly isn't supposed to be that strong.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by kn83 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:12 am

supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:Nobody in U6 except for Hit is God level. Goku and Vegeta were stated to be nowhere near God level by Whis during ROF before they obtain Blue, yet Goku was God level during his fight with Beerus. So BOG Goku>>>>>ROF Goku before the latter obtains SSB.

Goku not being God level in ROF despite being God level during BOG means he got weaker, so he lost access to the God power that burned inside him during his fight with Beerus as he was explicitly stated to not be God level despite being so before.

For some reason, people seem to think that the God level Super Saiyan shown during BOG is the same that Goku always uses. Super Saiyan Blue is stated to be a "Saiyan with the powers of Super Saiyan God becoming a Super Saiyan". That is what Goku is using during BOG. His Super Saiyan form possessed the power of God.

The Super Saiyan form that Goku is using during BOG is Blue, except the form isn't strong enough at that point to become Blue. We saw this with Black in the manga where his basic Super Saiyan form kept getting stronger and stronger until it became Rose.

To put this situation simply into numbers since a lot of people don't get it.

Base Goku: 90,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku: 4,500,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Goku: 9,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Goku: 36,000,000,000

Super Saiyan God Goku: 60,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Base Goku(Saiyan Beyond God): 10,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku(God's Crimson Radiance): 60,000,000,000,004,500,000,000

Base Goku(Universe 6 Arc): 10,600,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku: 530,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Goku: 71,232,000,000,000,000,000,000

Base Cabba: 7,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Cabba: 350,000,000,000,000
You are making stuff up. Nowhere in the anime nor even the manga is it anywhere said by Whis that base Goku and Vegeta where weaker than the SSG form in the RoF arc. This line from when base Goku fights Final Form Frieza completely debunks your claim: https://pm1.narvii.com/6553/4794b14ccc0 ... a9e_hq.jpg

Second, it is pure headcanon and denialism to assume that the SSJ1 Goku used against Beerus was actually Blue, because that goes against what Beerus literally says during their fight: https://i.neoseeker.com/mgv/905859/859/ ... eqan8v.png
https://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/o ... -27-30.png
https://pm1.narvii.com/6312/cd830fe27b4 ... f9b_hq.jpg

Plus if that was SSBlue then Goku would have visually turned SSB during the fight with Beerus, which he didn't. What actually happened was that Goku absorbed the raw power of SSG into his base form (not the transformation itself), that's why Goku can stack SSG again on top of that later on in the series and how base Goku was abled to stop Beerus' giant red blast from destroying the Earth.

There is just no point in denying the fact that post-BoG base Goku and Vegeta being way stronger than BoG SSG at this point. There are simply way too many feats, statements and other evidence shows that it is a fact. Any character that's at least relative to post-BoG base Goku is God level, that includes all of the fighters from U6 and at least a third of the ToP. Its just a fact.

Also, whats with the made up numbers? There is no official multiplier for SSG in the first place, and the official mulitiplers we do have for the other forms shows that your powerlevel chart is way off.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:20 am

jeffbr92 wrote:Base to SSJ Kefla vs. Golden Freeza
In my opinion, Kefla benefited from Goku’s issues with his stamina, specially when using god forms. My impression is that Goku with kaioken should be stronger than SS2 Kefla. By proxy, SSB would be greater than SS Kefla and SSG at full power above Base Kefla as well. Golden Freeza was certainly even with SSB Goku before the tournament, but I suspect Goku surpassed him after fighting Jiren. So, SS Kefla vs. Golden Freeza seems more likely a match. If I were to bet, SS Kefla would win due to her persistence.
supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:Nobody in U6 except for Hit is God level. Goku and Vegeta were stated to be nowhere near God level by Whis during ROF before they obtain Blue, yet Goku was God level during his fight with Beerus. So BOG Goku>>>>>ROF Goku before the latter obtains SSB.

Goku not being God level in ROF despite being God level during BOG means he got weaker, so he lost access to the God power that burned inside him during his fight with Beerus as he was explicitly stated to not be God level despite being so before.

For some reason, people seem to think that the God level Super Saiyan shown during BOG is the same that Goku always uses. Super Saiyan Blue is stated to be a "Saiyan with the powers of Super Saiyan God becoming a Super Saiyan". That is what Goku is using during BOG. His Super Saiyan form possessed the power of God.

The Super Saiyan form that Goku is using during BOG is Blue, except the form isn't strong enough at that point to become Blue. We saw this with Black in the manga where his basic Super Saiyan form kept getting stronger and stronger until it became Rose.
I think Kale is scratching the surface of God level with her berserk form, due to excessive amount of midchlorians coff.. coff.. S-cells. But I mostly agree with your point. I would say that what Goku used against Beerus was really a SS with the power of SSG. Though, SSB seems more like a powered-up version of SSG, or a SSG going SS. It wasn’t for nothing that it was called SSGSS in official media. I also concur with the part about the hair color having a change once the SS form goes beyond SSG.
kn83 wrote:You are making stuff up. Nowhere in the anime nor even the manga is it anywhere said by Whis that base Goku and Vegeta where weaker than the SSG form in the RoF arc.
He is not.

Episode 15: Minute: 17: Context: Whis provides highly detailed expository dialogue.
Oracle Fish: "Maybe your training is a bit too tough? At this rate, those two are going to die. You could at least have them become those "Super Saiyan" things."
Whis: "That wouldn't do, at all."
Oracle Fish: "It wouldn't?"
Whis: "Those two have just barely reached the level where they can sense the ki of a god. If that castle up there were the level of the gods, then their power is only about this high. They need to raise the level of their ki without becoming Super Saiyan. Otherwise, they won't be able to grow much stronger, since they won't be able to see the realm which lies ahead. Most likely, those two realize this themselves. After all, I never once told them not to become Super Saiyans."
Oracle Fish: "Well, whatever. Just don't kill them."

This was copied and pasted from the old Fact Checker Thread. But if you have any doubts just check the link. SSG is in the realm of a god, so Whis is pretty much saying Goku and Vegeta are not god level.

Also, not only the line from Kuririn you linked is off, since strength was never brought up, but it doesn’t come from legal sources.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by kn83 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:34 am

dragon boss z wrote: They didn't get that much stronger. Maybe a couple times at most.
Yes they did. For example Goku needed KKx10 just to match Hit in the Champa arc. Later after the Black arc, Goku was able to beat an even stronger Hit without using kaioken at all. This suggest that Goku and Vegeta got at least 10x stronger from the Champa arc to the end of the Black arc. Plus, there is also the additional gains they got training in preparation for the ToP after the rematch with Hit.
dragon boss z wrote:I agree about 17 and Gohan, and Kale too. But not Cabba and Caulifla. I would say their ssj2 forms are maybe Buuhan level. Maybe ssj Vegito from the buu saga, and that's pushing it.
In the BoG arc, Goku made it clear that even a Buu arc SSJ3 Vegito couldn't stand a chance against surppressed Beerus, yet SSG Goku was abled to match that Beerus. Both base Cabba and base Caulifla scale much higher than BoG SSG Goku, since RoF base Goku and base Vegeta surpassed BoG SSG Goku. Later those 2 train in the ROSAT for 3 years after ROF, then Champa arc base Cabba matched base Vegeta in the same arc. And finally Caulifla from the start has a higher base than Cabba's.
dragon boss z wrote:
The fact you think Monna is stronger than BoG SSG Goku shows the problem with just trying to scale. She clearly isn't supposed to be that strong.
Just because a character seems weaker than current base Goku doesn't mean they are meant to be weaker than BoG SSG Goku for all the reasons mentioned above. That's like arguing that Guldo can't be stronger than Nappa because Guldo was portrayed as fodder in the Namek arc while Nappa portrayed as high-tier in the Saiyan arc.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by kn83 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:55 am

Hugo Boss wrote: In my opinion, Kefla benefited from Goku’s issues with his stamina, specially when using god forms. My impression is that Goku with kaioken should be stronger than SS2 Kefla. By proxy, SSB would be greater than SS Kefla and SSG at full power above Base Kefla as well. Golden Freeza was certainly even with SSB Goku before the tournament, but I suspect Goku surpassed him after fighting Jiren. So, SS Kefla vs. Golden Freeza seems more likely a match. If I were to bet, SS Kefla would win due to her persistence.
Hugo Boss wrote: He is not.

Episode 15: Minute: 17: Context: Whis provides highly detailed expository dialogue.
Oracle Fish: "Maybe your training is a bit too tough? At this rate, those two are going to die. You could at least have them become those "Super Saiyan" things."
Whis: "That wouldn't do, at all."
Oracle Fish: "It wouldn't?"
Whis: "Those two have just barely reached the level where they can sense the ki of a god. If that castle up there were the level of the gods, then their power is only about this high. They need to raise the level of their ki without becoming Super Saiyan. Otherwise, they won't be able to grow much stronger, since they won't be able to see the realm which lies ahead. Most likely, those two realize this themselves. After all, I never once told them not to become Super Saiyans."
Oracle Fish: "Well, whatever. Just don't kill them."

This was copied and pasted from the old Fact Checker Thread. But if you have any doubts just check the link. SSG is in the realm of a god, so Whis is pretty much saying Goku and Vegeta are not god level.

Also, not only the line from Kuririn you linked is off, since strength was never brought up, but it doesn’t come from legal sources.
Whis in that scene was comparing Goku and Vegeta's powers in general to that of the Gods of Destruction, that's what Whis mean't by the "realm of the gods". He was not comparing their base powers to the SSG form, that just sounds like a desperate attempt to deny the fact that base Goku and Vegeta >>>>> BoG SSG Goku
since RoF by projecting false meanings into the dialogue of that scene.

Also, Krillin literally just said that Goku was stronger than before when he was fighting Freeza in base in the scene. There is no way you can deny it at this point.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by PFM18 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:23 am

Sonofman wrote:
jeffbr92 wrote:- Base to SSJ Kefla vs. Golden Freeza
Base Kefla is above Golden Frieza, but probably not by a lot, since SSB is about equal to Golden Frieza imo. A SSJ Kelfa would wreck Golden Frieza.
So you think Kefla in base is on par with SSB/Golden Freeza?? That would make SSJ2 Kefla 100x stronger than SSB. How could Goku have possibly competed if she was 100x stronger than SSB?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:57 am

kn83 wrote:Whis in that scene was comparing Goku and Vegeta's powers in general to that of the Gods of Destruction, that's what Whis mean't by the "realm of the gods". He was not comparing their base powers to the SSG form, that just sounds like a desperate attempt to deny the fact that base Goku and Vegeta >>>>> BoG SSG Goku since RoF by projecting false meanings into the dialogue of that scene.

Also, Krillin literally just said that Goku was stronger than before when he was fighting Freeza in base in the scene. There is no way you can deny it at this point.
https://pm1.narvii.com/6553/4794b14ccc0 ... a9e_hq.jpg
I don’t understand how gods in this context means just Gods of Destruction, since we had an entire arc before called “battle of gods”.. Not to mention the several instances that Goku was called a god when he used that power. Also, when Goku fought Jiren, Whis had no qualms on comparing Jiren to a God of Destruction, so if he was really talking about just Gods of Destructions back then he would be specific. What you are claiming about us is quite a strecth, none here has interest in projecting false meaning in anything, this is very dishonest on your part. If you want to stick around here, respect what the others have to say. Or at least don’t bring translations here that don’t belong to legal sources. Despite not being exactly against the rules on your case, Kanzenshuu disapproves any streaming service that is run illegaly. The translation of what Krillin says in Crunchyroll has nothing to do with strength, but with his feeling. For context, Gohan says they have tremendous energy, which doesn’t tell much, and Krillin comments: “Unlike with Beerus, I sense a real indiscribable fear right now”.

kn83
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by kn83 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:10 am

Hugo Boss wrote:
kn83 wrote:Whis in that scene was comparing Goku and Vegeta's powers in general to that of the Gods of Destruction, that's what Whis mean't by the "realm of the gods". He was not comparing their base powers to the SSG form, that just sounds like a desperate attempt to deny the fact that base Goku and Vegeta >>>>> BoG SSG Goku since RoF by projecting false meanings into the dialogue of that scene.

Also, Krillin literally just said that Goku was stronger than before when he was fighting Freeza in base in the scene. There is no way you can deny it at this point.
https://pm1.narvii.com/6553/4794b14ccc0 ... a9e_hq.jpg
I don’t understand how gods in this context means just Gods of Destruction, since we had an entire arc before called “battle of gods”.. Not to mention the several instances that Goku was called a god when he used that power. Also, when Goku fought Jiren, Whis had no qualms on comparing Jiren to a God of Destruction, so if he was really talking about just Gods of Destructions back then he would be specific. What you are claiming about us is quite a strecth, none here has interest in projecting false meaning in anything, this is very dishonest on your part. If you want to stick around here, respect what the others have to say. Or at least don’t bring translations here that don’t belong to legal sources. Despite not being exactly against the rules on your case, Kanzenshuu disapproves any streaming service that is run illegaly. The translation of what Krillin says in Crunchyroll has nothing to do with strength, but with his feeling. For context, Gohan says they have tremendous energy, which doesn’t tell much, and Krillin comments: “Unlike with Beerus, I sense a real indiscribable fear right now”.
Whenever characters generally say "the level of the gods" in the series, they are always talking about the Gods of Destruction unless explicitly stated otherwise. Plus, the fact that Whis was comparing Beerus' castle with a tree makes it obvious that Whis was talking about the Gods of Destruction's power (especially Beerus) compared to Goku and Vegeta's. Its a massive stretch to assume he was talking about SSG because he never actually brings up the form in that scene.

And there was no translation error in the scene with Krillin. Everyone was able to sense Goku's power during his fight with Beerus after absorbing the form. So Krillin has no reason to be wrong. When characters say in this series "that guy feels stronger" they are being literal because they can sense their power levels. To argue otherwise is just an attempt to ignore stated facts.

Plus, there are way too many feats and statements that prove that Goku and Vegeta's bases since RoF are much stronger than BoG SSG Goku. Like base Copy-Vegeta knocking out SSJ3 Gotenks in one casual punch for example. That couldn't have been possible if Goku and Vegeta's bases didn't reach BoG SSG level.

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