The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:01 am

RecolorSaiyan wrote:SSB Vegeta (RoF) vs Mastered Berserk Kale (episode 114)?
Kale was weaker than SSG Goku so her fighting a full power SSB Vegeta would be suicide.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:30 am

ZombieVito wrote:
Zamasu55 wrote: - Copy Vegeta stomps in base. Lavender's poison wouldn't obviously work on someone who's made of jelly.
- Ssj Berserker Kale tears him apart.
- It can go either way.
- Champa is a little bit weaker than Beerus. The latter was surpassed only on ep.109 (by a suppressed Jiren), so Zamasu has no chance.
- Damon can't see him.
- It took Jiren to defeat Maji-Kayo (probably one of the most underrated fighters in the ToP), while Monna is merely above Ssj tier.
1-2) You didn't see the conditions of the fights? lol.
4) No. Beerus was only surpassed in E130 by mastered UI Goku and FP Jiren.
- Yeah I somehow missed that. Anyway, the Trio de Danger still get stomped. As for the second fight, Buu takes it pretty easily.

- Whis said that Jiren's power in ep.109 was "maybe" above that of a God of Destruction. Considering that Jiren was heavily suppressed, then his FP form is massively above Beerus.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by zarmack » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:32 am

ToP SSG > RoF SSB

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:49 am

Dyspo vs. Ribrianne in a one-on-one match using the Tournament of Power rules. We're having a bit of an issue with this in my other thread.
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by zarmack » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:28 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:Dyspo vs. Ribrianne in a one-on-one match using the Tournament of Power rules. We're having a bit of an issue with this in my other thread.
Dyspo stomps. He is SSB tier while Ribrianne is only SSJ1 level at best

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by PFM18 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:00 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
RecolorSaiyan wrote:SSB Vegeta (RoF) vs Mastered Berserk Kale (episode 114)?
Kale was weaker than SSG Goku so her fighting a full power SSB Vegeta would be suicide.
the idea is that characters have made a lot of progress since RoF though. You're not taking that into consideration. I still agree with you though
zarmack wrote:ToP SSG > RoF SSB
how do you figure?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:55 pm

zarmack wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:Dyspo vs. Ribrianne in a one-on-one match using the Tournament of Power rules. We're having a bit of an issue with this in my other thread.
Dyspo stomps. He is SSB tier while Ribrianne is only SSJ1 level at best
I would disagree that she's that weak but I still agree that Dyspo wins.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:31 pm

Zamasu55 wrote: - Yeah I somehow missed that. Anyway, the Trio de Danger still get stomped. As for the second fight, Buu takes it pretty easily.

- Whis said that Jiren's power in ep.109 was "maybe" above that of a God of Destruction. Considering that Jiren was heavily suppressed, then his FP form is massively above Beerus.
They were guessing if Jiren was the one mortal that surpassed the GoD's since his ki felt different. Jiren was not at full power there and only Mastered UI Goku has been confirmed to pass that level, making only FP Jiren about that level as well.
PFM18 wrote: the idea is that characters have made a lot of progress since RoF though. You're not taking that into consideration. I still agree with you though
I actually don't have Goku and Vegeta making huge gains between the RoF and ToP arc.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by zarmack » Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:47 pm

ZombieVito wrote: I actually don't have Goku and Vegeta making huge gains between the RoF and ToP arc.
They clearly did though. In the Champa arc, Goku needed SSBKKx10 to take on Hit (which still wasn't enough). Later in the Black arc, Goku and Vegeta take on Black who (even before pulling out his scythe) was stronger than Champa arc Hit. Vegeta (after 6 months of ROSAT training), was able to dominate Goku Black before he pulled out his scythe. Then after that, Goku has a rematch with an even stronger Hit and fights him to a draw in SSB without using Kaioken. Then he has a short fight with True Golden Freeza (who should be at least equal to Black in his prime), which ends in a draw with just SSB.

So both Goku & Vegeta at the start the ToP arc had to be at least over 10x stronger than they were in the RoF arc.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:03 am

zarmack wrote: They clearly did though. In the Champa arc, Goku needed SSBKKx10 to take on Hit (which still wasn't enough). Later in the Black arc, Goku and Vegeta take on Black who (even before pulling out his scythe) was stronger than Champa arc Hit. Vegeta (after 6 months of ROSAT training), was able to dominate Goku Black before he pulled out his scythe. Then after that, Goku has a rematch with an even stronger Hit and fights him to a draw in SSB without using Kaioken. Then he has a short fight with True Golden Freeza (who should be at least equal to Black in his prime), which ends in a draw with just SSB.

So both Goku & Vegeta at the start the ToP arc had to be at least over 10x stronger than they were in the RoF arc.
Hit has never been stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Goku or Vegeta and he never increases his power with his progression ability. That actually confirmed in the show.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by zarmack » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:47 am

ZombieVito wrote:
zarmack wrote: They clearly did though. In the Champa arc, Goku needed SSBKKx10 to take on Hit (which still wasn't enough). Later in the Black arc, Goku and Vegeta take on Black who (even before pulling out his scythe) was stronger than Champa arc Hit. Vegeta (after 6 months of ROSAT training), was able to dominate Goku Black before he pulled out his scythe. Then after that, Goku has a rematch with an even stronger Hit and fights him to a draw in SSB without using Kaioken. Then he has a short fight with True Golden Freeza (who should be at least equal to Black in his prime), which ends in a draw with just SSB.

So both Goku & Vegeta at the start the ToP arc had to be at least over 10x stronger than they were in the RoF arc.
Hit has never been stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Goku or Vegeta and he never increases his power with his progression ability. That actually confirmed in the show.
The anime version in ep.39 blatantly states that Hit increases with raw power with Pure Progress. Vegeta even calls Hit out on this, saying that he thought only Saiyans had that kind of ability. : https://youtu.be/CNcvx8bERWs 6:49.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:54 am

zarmack wrote: The anime version in ep.39 blatantly states that Hit increases with raw power with Pure Progress. Vegeta even calls Hit out on this, saying that he thought only Saiyans had that kind of ability. : https://youtu.be/CNcvx8bERWs 6:49.
Whis and Vados flat out say no when Vegeta wonders if Hit powered up after he hits Goku after increasing his Time Skip to 0.2 seconds.

The difference in strength becomes very clear in the next episode when a tired Goku does more damage with one punch than Hit does in several.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by zarmack » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:03 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
zarmack wrote: The anime version in ep.39 blatantly states that Hit increases with raw power with Pure Progress. Vegeta even calls Hit out on this, saying that he thought only Saiyans had that kind of ability. : https://youtu.be/CNcvx8bERWs 6:49.
Whis and Vados flat out say no when Vegeta wonders if Hit powered up after he hits Goku after increasing his Time Skip to 0.2 seconds.

The difference in strength becomes very clear in the next episode when a tired Goku does more damage with one punch than Hit does in several.
1. When then Whis and Vados say no? Do you have any proof?

2. Hit tanked many hits from SSBKKx10 Goku can could still keep up and trade blows with him. So its obvious where he is scaling wise.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:33 pm

zarmack wrote: The difference in strength becomes very clear in the next episode when a tired Goku does more damage with one punch than Hit does in several.
1. When then Whis and Vados say no? Do you have any proof?

2. Hit tanked many hits from SSBKKx10 Goku can could still keep up and trade blows with him. So its obvious where he is scaling wise.[/quote]
1.- It's in the episode. Watch it.

2.- Hit never tanked a single blow from KKx10 Blue Goku. Hit barely does anything to KKx10 Blue Goku in E39 actually. I hardly call that "trading blows". He was getting stomped and only keeping up with Time Skip.

In E40, he improves his Time Skip again and wrecks Goku delivering several punches only for the latter to wreck him even more with just one hit.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by zarmack » Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:05 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
zarmack wrote: The difference in strength becomes very clear in the next episode when a tired Goku does more damage with one punch than Hit does in several.
1. When then Whis and Vados say no? Do you have any proof?

2. Hit tanked many hits from SSBKKx10 Goku can could still keep up and trade blows with him. So its obvious where he is scaling wise.
1.- It's in the episode. Watch it.

2.- Hit never tanked a single blow from KKx10 Blue Goku. Hit barely does anything to KKx10 Blue Goku in E39 actually. I hardly call that "trading blows". He was getting stomped and only keeping up with Time Skip.

In E40, he improves his Time Skip again and wrecks Goku delivering several punches only for the latter to wreck him even more with just one hit.[/quote]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OsXlaUhxX8

Here is Hit tanking a whole onslaught of attacks from SSBKKx10 Goku and still keeping up. You are in denial.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:39 pm

zarmack wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OsXlaUhxX8

Here is Hit tanking a whole onslaught of attacks from SSBKKx10 Goku and still keeping up. You are in denial.
That's not tanking...

Semi Cell vs 16 was tanking. Hit can't even react to Goku there.

And again, look at their fight in E40. Goku only needed one punch to inflict the same damage Hit did in several.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Ssjcell » Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:23 am

ZombieVito wrote:
zarmack wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OsXlaUhxX8

Here is Hit tanking a whole onslaught of attacks from SSBKKx10 Goku and still keeping up. You are in denial.
That's not tanking...

Semi Cell vs 16 was tanking. Hit can't even react to Goku there.

And again, look at their fight in E40. Goku only needed one punch to inflict the same damage Hit did in several.
I'd like to add something here , hit wasn't tanking anything he was getting beaten to death if killing was allowed Goku could have snapped his neck

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:45 am

Ssjcell wrote: I'd like to add something here , hit wasn't tanking anything he was getting beaten to death if killing was allowed Goku could have snapped his neck
This is a god point. I forgotten that they can't kill so Goku must hold back there.

:thumbup:

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by zarmack » Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:33 am

Ssjcell wrote:
ZombieVito wrote:
zarmack wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OsXlaUhxX8

Here is Hit tanking a whole onslaught of attacks from SSBKKx10 Goku and still keeping up. You are in denial.
That's not tanking...

Semi Cell vs 16 was tanking. Hit can't even react to Goku there.

And again, look at their fight in E40. Goku only needed one punch to inflict the same damage Hit did in several.
I'd like to add something here , hit wasn't tanking anything he was getting beaten to death if killing was allowed Goku could have snapped his neck
Bad argument. If Goku was holding back and Hit was that much weaker than SSBKK then Goku would have never felt the need to use the form in the 1st place. Goku even admitted to Beerus & Whis after his fight with Hit that he never stood a chance even with SSBKKx10.

Also, if anything, Hit was the one that was holding back. The implication throughout the Champa arc in the anime was that Hit could easy kill Goku & Vegeta if killing was allowed, which was proven after the Black arc with Goku and Hit's 1st rematch where Hit casually kills SSB Goku with one attack.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:19 am

zarmack wrote: Bad argument. If Goku was holding back and Hit was that much weaker than SSBKK then Goku would have never felt the need to use the form in the 1st place. Goku even admitted to Beerus & Whis after his fight with Hit that he never stood a chance even with SSBKKx10.

Also, if anything, Hit was the one that was holding back. The implication throughout the Champa arc in the anime was that Hit could easy kill Goku & Vegeta if killing was allowed, which was proven after the Black arc with Goku and Hit's 1st rematch where Hit casually kills SSB Goku with one attack.
He needed to use the form to counter the Time Skip, not Hit's power. It's literally that simple.

Goku using regular Kaioken is even faster than Hit can see. After using times 10, Hit is literally hopeless until he improves again and uses a better Time Skip to evade Goku's Kamehameha from E39. After that he easily hits an unguarded Goku with several punches but fails to K.O. or send him flying away. Goku then with one punch does the same damage and sends him flying away like nothing.

The difference in strength is clear as day in E40. Especially when it's confirmed by Whis and Vados that Hit doesn't increase his power when he improves in the previous episode.

Goku of course couldn't beat Hit in that match since he still hasn't mastered Kaioken Blue. Same as Goku was never going to beat Vegeta with Kaioken x3 back in the Saiyan arc. Hit killing Goku in E72 has nothing to do with strength.

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