The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby Analytic » Sat May 12, 2018 10:43 pm

Vegetto Red vs. Gogeta Blue

Basically, what do you consider to be greater: the difference between SSG and SSB or the difference between Gogeta and Vegetto?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby Asura » Sun May 13, 2018 2:53 am

dragon boss z wrote:
Asura wrote:A theoretical Kefla SSJ3 vs MUI Goku


Goku stomps

PFM18 wrote:
Asura wrote:A theoretical Kefla SSJ3 vs MUI Goku


Well, in terms of raw strength, Kefla is far far stronger. The way I estimate things to be, MUI Goku is about 90x stronger than SSB and Kefla SSJ3 would be about 160x stronger than SSB.

However, Goku doesn't have to think before he acts and is much more experienced in battle and that was shown to play a role when Goku was beating Caulifla in base. It would be interesting to see but since DB usually just comes down to pure power over anything else, I would say that SSJ3 Kefla would probably win.


Howis any version of Kefla is stronger than MUI Goku who beat Jiren, who is above GoD level?
Ssj2 Kefla would be lucky to beat Toppo, and ssj3 Kefla would probably still lose to pre limit breaking Jiren, who got stomped by MUI Goku.


Roshi comments that "not even Goku would be able to survive" if he got hit by any of SSJ2 Kefla's beams. MUI is stronger than UI, sure, but SSJ3 is also stronger than SSJ2. All Kefla actually has to do is hit him, but that's easier said than done.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby JazzMazz » Sun May 13, 2018 3:06 am

Asura wrote:
dragon boss z wrote:
Asura wrote:A theoretical Kefla SSJ3 vs MUI Goku


Goku stomps

PFM18 wrote:
Well, in terms of raw strength, Kefla is far far stronger. The way I estimate things to be, MUI Goku is about 90x stronger than SSB and Kefla SSJ3 would be about 160x stronger than SSB.

However, Goku doesn't have to think before he acts and is much more experienced in battle and that was shown to play a role when Goku was beating Caulifla in base. It would be interesting to see but since DB usually just comes down to pure power over anything else, I would say that SSJ3 Kefla would probably win.


Howis any version of Kefla is stronger than MUI Goku who beat Jiren, who is above GoD level?
Ssj2 Kefla would be lucky to beat Toppo, and ssj3 Kefla would probably still lose to pre limit breaking Jiren, who got stomped by MUI Goku.


Roshi comments that "not even Goku would be able to survive" if he got hit by any of SSJ2 Kefla's beams. MUI is stronger than UI, sure, but SSJ3 is also stronger than SSJ2. All Kefla actually has to do is hit him, but that's easier said than done.

Well, considering the type of attack she used, and her current power, I don't think its all surprising that those would have cut through Goku like butter if they connected. That doesn't necessarily mean anything about them in relation to which character was stronger, since it was established to be an Omni dimensional cutting attack, as opposed to just a pure beam.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby GreatSaiyaman123 » Sun May 13, 2018 9:16 am

jeffbr92 wrote:Yes, Trunks stands no chance. It's insane to think him playing hide and seek with Black made him stronger than the ultimate fusion.


Well, it did make him stronger than the emperor of the universe when he played with 17 and 18. That's some serious nerfing of Trunks here.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby Sora Saiyan » Sun May 13, 2018 12:29 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:
What this has to do with Blue and God's multiplier?

When was it stated on the ToP that SSJ3 is 8x SSJ? I heavily doubt Toyotaro is bothering with the SEG Multipliers. We do have a direct implication of Blue not getting much beyond 10x regular Super Saiyan, and that overrules what SEG said 10 years ago.

Goku was on an entirely different level than the Ginyu Force and he's like 1.5x stronger than them. Those types of statements don't require tenfold gaps, you know.

It has everything to do with god and blues multiplier. Base Black is way stronger than Trunks who is SSJ3 level and against Vegeta he stood no chance even as a SSJ (50x). So SSJ2 Vegeta end ups being like 100x SSJ3 Goku. Now the reason it has everything to do with the Blue multiplier is because, well, Goku must still transform from his SSJ3 level into his God level forms. So for blue Goku and Vegeta to be equal Goku must have an increase of much more than 100x his SSJ3 form. He obviously has to surpass Vegetas SSJ2 form, and as we’ve seen from his fight with Trunks, Goku would get utterly stomped by base Black. I can’t explain it any clearer why Blue is a massive jump.

Right, let’s say it isn’t an 8x multiplier anymore, but as we’ve seen it’s a good jump from SSJ, or SSJ2 in the manga, as Beerus called SSJ3 impressive, yet he didn’t think SSJ and SSJ2 we’re impressive at all. So that right there implies a big jump as it’s coming from somebody as super powerful as Beerus. So anyway, in that example of the Super manga we’ve been given a direct comparison between the SSJ forms, and SSJ3 has been shown to be noteworthy when the other two weren’t, and when we were shown the god forms against Toppo there was a clear showcase of how the other forms (including 3) weren’t even close to the multiplier of just SSJG, as my previous comment to you has pointed out, and like I said previously CSSJB is on an entirely different level from just normal Blue, which itself is on a level above God. Anyway, like I said SSJ - 3 can’t make a dent in closing the goal post that is Toppo, yet SSJG surpasses that, and makes Toppo power up to what may be his fullpower in the manga, and he is still only equal to God.

Anyway, we also know that SSJG is enough to put Goku above Vegetto, who judging by Keflas display (anime) and Base Vegettos display (manga) is a massive jump. We see from both of those potara fusions that the base form of the fusion is much above the individuals in their most powerful forms. So BoG Vegetto would make SSJ3 Goku look like a pussy in just his base, and God Goku is above SSJ Vegetto at the minimum, and maybe even stronger than SSJ3 Vegetto. So as you can see from that comparison god Goku is a massive jump. By the way, in the manga I only place base Goku around his pre God ritual base as there is nothing to imply that he has gained any substantial jump in the manga, so the Vegetto that would exist at the time of BoG still applies to the comparison I am making. Obviously Zamasu arc Vegetto is a different animal entirely, as that Vegetto now seems to start off stronger than Blue, sorta like the potara fusions base will always be stronger than the fusees most powerful forms.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby PFM18 » Sun May 13, 2018 1:02 pm

dragon boss z wrote:Howis any version of Kefla is stronger than MUI Goku who beat Jiren, who is above GoD level?
Ssj2 Kefla would be lucky to beat Toppo, and ssj3 Kefla would probably still lose to pre limit breaking Jiren, who got stomped by MUI Goku.


Because the 2nd UI Omen~SSJ2 Kefla if not Kefla being slightly stronger. Goku won because he wasn't hampered by having to think before he moves. Then Kefla gets 4x stronger than this SSJ2 Kefla that was atleast as strong as the 2nd UI Omen?? This is atleast as strong as Goku's final UI form because there is no way that the 2nd UI Omen -> Completed UI constitutes a 4x difference in strength. I see it as 2 or MAYBE a 2.5x difference.

Like I said, Kefla SSJ3 is 160x stronger than SSB Goku, Completed UI I only have as about 90 or MAYBE 100x stronger than SSB. To me there is no question that Kefla wins in terms of brute strength

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby PFM18 » Sun May 13, 2018 1:04 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:
jeffbr92 wrote:Yes, Trunks stands no chance. It's insane to think him playing hide and seek with Black made him stronger than the ultimate fusion.


Well, it did make him stronger than the emperor of the universe when he played with 17 and 18. That's some serious nerfing of Trunks here.


Yeah exactly. Trunks has been training for the past 13 years since we saw him in the Cell Arc and he has a ton of potential because he is a half breed. If he can compete with Goku at this point in the story then SSJ Vegetto from the Buu arc is nothing to him.(This is going off the anime I don't really know about the manga and it's strange shenanigans.)

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby Zamasu55 » Sun May 13, 2018 1:18 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:
jeffbr92 wrote:Yes, Trunks stands no chance. It's insane to think him playing hide and seek with Black made him stronger than the ultimate fusion.


Well, it did make him stronger than the emperor of the universe when he played with 17 and 18. That's some serious nerfing of Trunks here.

Only because he was a Super Saiyan.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby GreatSaiyaman123 » Sun May 13, 2018 6:55 pm

Zamasu55 wrote:Only because he was a Super Saiyan.


A very weak one, who Base Gohan would easily manhandle on their sparring sections. It's worth pointing out that Gohan believed Trunks would leave him in the dust in a few months. Trunks's potential is way bigger than even Gohan's.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby Dragon Ball Gus » Mon May 14, 2018 10:15 am

Universe Survival Vegeta (Not counting SSB Evolution) vs Universe Survival Hit
Happy Halloween! :twisted:

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby Zamasu55 » Mon May 14, 2018 3:53 pm

Dragon Ball Gus wrote:Universe Survival Vegeta (Not counting SSB Evolution) vs Universe Survival Hit

Hit stomps.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby PFM18 » Mon May 14, 2018 9:57 pm

Dragon Ball Gus wrote:Universe Survival Vegeta (Not counting SSB Evolution) vs Universe Survival Hit


Vegeta wins very comfortably. Goku and Hit were relative to each other when Goku fought as a SSG and Vegeta as a SSB should be far above that

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby dragon boss z » Tue May 15, 2018 10:15 pm

PFM18 wrote:Because the 2nd UI Omen~SSJ2 Kefla if not Kefla being slightly stronger. Goku won because he wasn't hampered by having to think before he moves. Then Kefla gets 4x stronger than this SSJ2 Kefla that was atleast as strong as the 2nd UI Omen?? This is atleast as strong as Goku's final UI form because there is no way that the 2nd UI Omen -> Completed UI constitutes a 4x difference in strength. I see it as 2 or MAYBE a 2.5x difference.

Like I said, Kefla SSJ3 is 160x stronger than SSB Goku, Completed UI I only have as about 90 or MAYBE 100x stronger than SSB. To me there is no question that Kefla wins in terms of brute strength


Using multiplier numbers doesn't really work for me, especially since we don't know the UI multiplier or how fussion affects multipliers.
I don't see how ssj3 Kefla would have more brute strength than limit breaker Jiren. Plot wise I just don't see it happening.

Asura wrote:Roshi comments that "not even Goku would be able to survive" if he got hit by any of SSJ2 Kefla's beams. MUI is stronger than UI, sure, but SSJ3 is also stronger than SSJ2. All Kefla actually has to do is hit him, but that's easier said than done.


Krillin's destructo disc was able to go through Nappa and Frieza and he was much weaker than them.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby PFM18 » Wed May 16, 2018 10:28 pm

dragon boss z wrote:
PFM18 wrote:Because the 2nd UI Omen~SSJ2 Kefla if not Kefla being slightly stronger. Goku won because he wasn't hampered by having to think before he moves. Then Kefla gets 4x stronger than this SSJ2 Kefla that was atleast as strong as the 2nd UI Omen?? This is atleast as strong as Goku's final UI form because there is no way that the 2nd UI Omen -> Completed UI constitutes a 4x difference in strength. I see it as 2 or MAYBE a 2.5x difference.

Like I said, Kefla SSJ3 is 160x stronger than SSB Goku, Completed UI I only have as about 90 or MAYBE 100x stronger than SSB. To me there is no question that Kefla wins in terms of brute strength


Using multiplier numbers doesn't really work for me, especially since we don't know the UI multiplier or how fussion affects multipliers.
I don't see how ssj3 Kefla would have more brute strength than limit breaker Jiren. Plot wise I just don't see it happening.

Asura wrote:Roshi comments that "not even Goku would be able to survive" if he got hit by any of SSJ2 Kefla's beams. MUI is stronger than UI, sure, but SSJ3 is also stronger than SSJ2. All Kefla actually has to do is hit him, but that's easier said than done.


Krillin's destructo disc was able to go through Nappa and Frieza and he was much weaker than them.


The multiplier for SSj3 is 4x SSJ2. Whether it works for you or not that is the case. We don't necessarily NEED a multiplier, we can work around a UI multipler. It is a matter of whether you think that 2nd UI Omen -> UI is more or less than a 4x difference. If you think it is less than 4x, then Kefla has more strength otherwise Goku would be more powerful. Either way, Goku has the X-factor of being able to move without thinking. I think Limit Breaker Jiren or any of the GoDs wouldn't be able to stop her as a SSJ3 though. Especially since it was stated 3rd UI Omen ~ Beerus and Beerus is probably atleast an average GoD. So I think it looks like this:

UI Goku>=SSJ3 Kefla>Limit Breaker Jiren>Full-Power Jiren>Gods of Destruction>=3rd UI Omen Goku

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby jeffbr92 » Thu May 17, 2018 2:26 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:
jeffbr92 wrote:Yes, Trunks stands no chance. It's insane to think him playing hide and seek with Black made him stronger than the ultimate fusion.


Well, it did make him stronger than the emperor of the universe when he played with 17 and 18. That's some serious nerfing of Trunks here.


Nice try, but Super Saiyans were always implied to be stronger than pre-RoF Freeza. It's reasonable to think that Trunks surpassed Freeza by the many fights he had against the androids instead of him surpassing powers beyond his compression only fighting with Black.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby Polyphase Avatron » Thu May 17, 2018 3:04 pm

Dyspo vs. Toppo, has this been done yet?
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby GreatSaiyaman123 » Thu May 17, 2018 4:06 pm

jeffbr92 wrote:Nice try, but Super Saiyans were always implied to be stronger than pre-RoF Freeza. It's reasonable to think that Trunks surpassed Freeza by the many fights he had against the androids instead of him surpassing powers beyond his compression only fighting with Black.


Image

This one doesn't seem stronge than Freeza. The cyborgs were as much beyond Kid Trunks's compression as Black was.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby Zamasu55 » Thu May 17, 2018 5:07 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:Dyspo vs. Toppo, has this been done yet?

No, probably because the outcome is obvious. Dyspo has no chance of beating his own leader.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby dragon boss z » Thu May 17, 2018 8:04 pm

PFM18 wrote:The multiplier for SSj3 is 4x SSJ2. Whether it works for you or not that is the case. We don't necessarily NEED a multiplier, we can work around a UI multipler. It is a matter of whether you think that 2nd UI Omen -> UI is more or less than a 4x difference. If you think it is less than 4x, then Kefla has more strength otherwise Goku would be more powerful. Either way, Goku has the X-factor of being able to move without thinking. I think Limit Breaker Jiren or any of the GoDs wouldn't be able to stop her as a SSJ3 though. Especially since it was stated 3rd UI Omen ~ Beerus and Beerus is probably atleast an average GoD. So I think it looks like this:

UI Goku>=SSJ3 Kefla>Limit Breaker Jiren>Full-Power Jiren>Gods of Destruction>=3rd UI Omen Goku


The multipliers are not 100% law for every instance. They aren't even stated in the actual manga or anime and the only one actually stated by Toriyama himself was the 50x one and he said he originally intended it for be a x10 multiplier. Ssj2 teen Gohan was even stated to be at half power but was clearly stronger than he was as a ssj, so for at least that instance, maybe due to Gohan's rage boost, his ssj2 was more than a x2 multiplier. So you can't just say, because of the multipliers it has to be this way, especially since we don't even know ssj2 Kefla's true power. Imo she is probably weaker than SSBE Vegeta (after pride boost) and GoD Toppo, and possibly end of ToP SSB kkx20 Goku. Plot is the main driving point in how power levels go, and that goes even more for Super which doesn't make sense half the time. By your logic Goku going ssj2 should make him 100x stronger, yet his base form was matching ssj2 Caulifla, and after going ssj2 he only did a bit better. Going by Z logic, a 100x boost should of allowed him to snap her out of existence if he wanted to.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Postby Polyphase Avatron » Thu May 17, 2018 9:57 pm

Zamasu55 wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:Dyspo vs. Toppo, has this been done yet?

No, probably because the outcome is obvious. Dyspo has no chance of beating his own leader.


But can Toppo catch him?
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