The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[MainJPW]

New match:

- SSJB Goku (can use 10x Kaioken), SSJB Vegeta, Hit (fully improved), Jiren (unseen full power) vs. Whis (no holding back)

Team Godstomps.

[DBZ Macky]

SSG Goku (DBS Anime) runs the gauntlet:
1. SS3 Goku (GT)
2. SS4 Goku (GT)
3. Syn Shenron
4. Ultra Full Power SS4 Goku (GT)
5. Omega Shenron
6. SS4 Gogeta (GT)

[supercat]

Strongest character Present Zamasu can beat?

He'd probably one-shot anyone and everyone from Z, including SSJ Vegetto. If Zamasu was able to contend with SSJ2 Goku, he's at least comparable to SSG Goku (BoG).

SSJ Goku = SSG - this was strongly indicated in BoG. I don't know why so many people have a hard time accepting it. Toss in some additional power ups Goku's received along the way, and it's not too farfetched to believe that SSJ Goku actually surpassed his SSG incarnation from BoG by a bit. But I honestly have no problem with keeping SSJ Goku (Future Trunks Saga) right at SSG tier.

In any case, if Zamasu was able to keep up with SSJ2 Goku (Future Trunks Saga), who should at least be twice as strong as is SSG self from BoG, I don't see how Zamasu is below SSG (BoG).

SSJ2 Goku (Future Trunks Saga) > / = Zamasu > SSJ Goku = SSG Goku > > > > > and at least 10 more (>) SSJ Vegetto >>> Buuhan

[Zamasu55]

Strongest character Present Zamasu can beat?

He'd probably one-shot anyone and everyone from Z, including SSJ Vegetto. If Zamasu was able to contend with SSJ2 Goku, he's at least comparable to SSG Goku (BoG).

SSJ Goku = SSG - this was strongly indicated in BoG. I don't know why so many people have a hard time accepting it. Toss in some additional power ups Goku's received along the way, and it's not too farfetched to believe that SSJ Goku actually surpassed his SSG incarnation from BoG by a bit. But I honestly have no problem with keeping SSJ Goku (Future Trunks Saga) right at SSG tier.

In any case, if Zamasu was able to keep up with SSJ2 Goku (Future Trunks Saga), who should at least be twice as strong as is SSG self from BoG, I don't see how Zamasu is below SSG (BoG).

SSJ2 Goku (Future Trunks Saga) > / = Zamasu > SSJ Goku = SSG Goku > > > > > and at least 10 more (>) SSJ Vegetto >>> Buuhan

Ssj Caulifla then is SsjG level?

[Lord Beerus]

SSG Goku (DBS Anime) runs the gauntlet:
1. SS3 Goku (GT)
2. SS4 Goku (GT)
3. Syn Shenron
4. Ultra Full Power SS4 Goku (GT)
5. Omega Shenron
6. SS4 Gogeta (GT)

I'd say Goku clears the gauntlet with east. In terms of feats, nobody really compares in Dragon Ball GT to what SSJG Goku did in the anime.

[supercat]

Strongest character Present Zamasu can beat?

He'd probably one-shot anyone and everyone from Z, including SSJ Vegetto. If Zamasu was able to contend with SSJ2 Goku, he's at least comparable to SSG Goku (BoG).

SSJ Goku = SSG - this was strongly indicated in BoG. I don't know why so many people have a hard time accepting it. Toss in some additional power ups Goku's received along the way, and it's not too farfetched to believe that SSJ Goku actually surpassed his SSG incarnation from BoG by a bit. But I honestly have no problem with keeping SSJ Goku (Future Trunks Saga) right at SSG tier.

In any case, if Zamasu was able to keep up with SSJ2 Goku (Future Trunks Saga), who should at least be twice as strong as is SSG self from BoG, I don't see how Zamasu is below SSG (BoG).

SSJ2 Goku (Future Trunks Saga) > / = Zamasu > SSJ Goku = SSG Goku > > > > > and at least 10 more (>) SSJ Vegetto >>> Buuhan

Ssj Caulifla then is SsjG level?

Nothing contradicts it so why not?

[Zamasu55]

He'd probably one-shot anyone and everyone from Z, including SSJ Vegetto. If Zamasu was able to contend with SSJ2 Goku, he's at least comparable to SSG Goku (BoG).

SSJ Goku = SSG - this was strongly indicated in BoG. I don't know why so many people have a hard time accepting it. Toss in some additional power ups Goku's received along the way, and it's not too farfetched to believe that SSJ Goku actually surpassed his SSG incarnation from BoG by a bit. But I honestly have no problem with keeping SSJ Goku (Future Trunks Saga) right at SSG tier.

In any case, if Zamasu was able to keep up with SSJ2 Goku (Future Trunks Saga), who should at least be twice as strong as is SSG self from BoG, I don't see how Zamasu is below SSG (BoG).

SSJ2 Goku (Future Trunks Saga) > / = Zamasu > SSJ Goku = SSG Goku > > > > > and at least 10 more (>) SSJ Vegetto >>> Buuhan

Ssj Caulifla then is SsjG level?

Nothing contradicts it so why not?

Do you even realize that's completely ridicoulus, do you?

[MainJPW]

SSG Goku (DBS Anime) runs the gauntlet:
1. SS3 Goku (GT)
2. SS4 Goku (GT)
3. Syn Shenron
4. Ultra Full Power SS4 Goku (GT)
5. Omega Shenron
6. SS4 Gogeta (GT)

SSJG Goku could probably clear this in his sleep.

[nickzambuto]

Boo absorbs Goku and Vegeta on the Kai planet and returns to Earth.

R1 - Can Gotenks stop Boogetto?
R2 - Can Gohan stop Boogetto?

[supercat]

Ssj Caulifla then is SsjG level?

Nothing contradicts it so why not?

Do you even realize that's completely ridicoulus, do you?

Not at all.

Firstly, if you can't find a counter argument other than, "that's bad writing" or "that doesn't make sense" or the whole "that cheapens past power ups, rituals" or whatever, don't bother responding to my posts.

SSJ1 Goku was stated to have obtained SSG powers. Where Caulifla stands is anyone's guess, but seeing as how Goku had the upperhand and was likely taking it easy, I'd say it's safe to say Caulifla is not quite at Goku's level but could be closing in on his weaker transformations (SSJ1 and SSJ2). SSG was a powerhouse back in BoG, and Goku and Vegeta have gotten far stronger since then, so it's not that farfetched for newer characters to reach that level.

Fans feeling that said level was reached in a cheapened way has nothing to do with the actual power scale itself. Especially if the plot calls for it. Plus, if Goku's universe really is the second weakest, there's nothing wrong with other universes housing characters stronger than certain standards of universe 7.

[Zamasu55]

Nothing contradicts it so why not?

Do you even realize that's completely ridicoulus, do you?

Not at all.

Firstly, if you can't find a counter argument other than, "that's bad writing" or "that doesn't make sense" or the whole "that cheapens past power ups, rituals" or whatever, don't bother responding to my posts.

SSJ1 Goku was stated to have obtained SSG powers. Where Caulifla stands is anyone's guess, but seeing as how Goku had the upperhand and was likely taking it easy, I'd say it's safe to say Caulifla is not quite at Goku's level but could be closing in on his weaker transformations (SSJ1 and SSJ2). SSG was a powerhouse back in BoG, and Goku and Vegeta have gotten far stronger since then, so it's not that farfetched for newer characters to reach that level.

Fans feeling that said level was reached in a cheapened way has nothing to do with the actual power scale itself. Especially if the plot calls for it. Plus, if Goku's universe really is the second weakest, there's nothing wrong with other universes housing characters stronger than certain standards of universe 7.

What I think is that power levels became nonsense ever since the Future Trunks arc, but in this one they got much worse. I'm going to write them all.

1- How can Bergamo, who was as strong as Ssj Goku, be able to even resist SsjBKk Goku's kamehameha? It doesn't matter if he did for a very short period, Goku should have stomped him instantly. Should.

2- How can Krillin stand up to SsjB Goku's kamehameha. Really, it's nonsense. He didn't even train that much. And I don't care if he was holding back, it still makes no sense.
3- How can Base Goku go from having to turn Ssj (and then Blue) against the likes of Krillin, fight on par with a strenghtened Majin Buu? So, unless Buu's weaker than Krillin, this makes no sense at all. Or there are two bases. Or... Super's real bad.
4- SsjB Goku and 17 being even. The latter even tanked his kamehameha with ease. Please don't pull out the holding back thing. First because Goku should've still crushed, second because 17 said he held back too (!!!). Dude went from being weaker than 16 to doing that by... "training" in the woods for 10 years. K..
5- Yeah, the same Goku who couldn't beat Krillin in his base and needed Ssj, was able to hurt Final form Freeza.

6- Yeah, the same Goku who couldn't beat Krillin in his base and needed Ssj, was struggling against the likes of Basil and Lavender, who're much weaker than the Buu Goku fought on par with...
7- Krillin and 18 looked exactly even in their fights with U4's dudes. This is so wrong.
8- How can Kale "seem" stronger than SsjB Goku? He was holding back? This excuse is so overused now.

That's it I think, only for this arc.

[supercat]

Do you even realize that's completely ridicoulus, do you?

Not at all.

Firstly, if you can't find a counter argument other than, "that's bad writing" or "that doesn't make sense" or the whole "that cheapens past power ups, rituals" or whatever, don't bother responding to my posts.

SSJ1 Goku was stated to have obtained SSG powers. Where Caulifla stands is anyone's guess, but seeing as how Goku had the upperhand and was likely taking it easy, I'd say it's safe to say Caulifla is not quite at Goku's level but could be closing in on his weaker transformations (SSJ1 and SSJ2). SSG was a powerhouse back in BoG, and Goku and Vegeta have gotten far stronger since then, so it's not that farfetched for newer characters to reach that level.

Fans feeling that said level was reached in a cheapened way has nothing to do with the actual power scale itself. Especially if the plot calls for it. Plus, if Goku's universe really is the second weakest, there's nothing wrong with other universes housing characters stronger than certain standards of universe 7.

What I think is that power levels became nonsense ever since the Future Trunks arc, but in this one they got much worse. I'm going to write them all.

1- How can Bergamo, who was as strong as Ssj Goku, be able to even resist SsjBKk Goku's kamehameha? It doesn't matter if he did for a very short period, Goku should have stomped him instantly. Should.

2- How can Krillin stand up to SsjB Goku's kamehameha. Really, it's nonsense. He didn't even train that much. And I don't care if he was holding back, it still makes no sense.
3- How can Base Goku go from having to turn Ssj (and then Blue) against the likes of Krillin, fight on par with a strenghtened Majin Buu? So, unless Buu's weaker than Krillin, this makes no sense at all. Or there are two bases. Or... Super's real bad.
4- SsjB Goku and 17 being even. The latter even tanked his kamehameha with ease. Please don't pull out the holding back thing. First because Goku should've still crushed, second because 17 said he held back too (!!!). Dude went from being weaker than 16 to doing that by... "training" in the woods for 10 years. K..
5- Yeah, the same Goku who couldn't beat Krillin in his base and needed Ssj, was able to hurt Final form Freeza.

6- Yeah, the same Goku who couldn't beat Krillin in his base and needed Ssj, was struggling against the likes of Basil and Lavender, who're much weaker than the Buu Goku fought on par with...
7- Krillin and 18 looked exactly even in their fights with U4's dudes. This is so wrong.
8- How can Kale "seem" stronger than SsjB Goku? He was holding back? This excuse is so overused now.

That's it I think, only for this arc.

1. No idea. But my guess is once a character reaches a certain level, their durability grants them more than just being able to survive something of their own caliber. Also, Bergamo keeping up with SSJ Goku is no small feat. Like I said, SSJ Goku = SSG Goku, based on statements from BoG.

2. No idea.

3. Goku probably pulled out different tiers of power to test and gauge Krillin more than anything else. The whole point of their match was probably for Krillin to showcase his skills against a far stronger opponent.

4. 17 probably powered up to SSB tier. Their brief match strongly implies that he has. Nothing wrong with this by the way. He's an android with an unlimited supply of energy that started off even stronger than Frieza (Namek). In fact, I think 17 reaching SSB-tier and leap frogging over people like Buu is by far one of the most logical ways to reintroduce him.

5. See number 3.

6. Struggling is subjective. It was also likely teamwork and strategy (something the tournament seems to emphasize on) that allowed Basil and Lavender to make it past getting one-shotted.

7. Nothing implies that Krillin and 18 were even. And even if they were, that would probably mean 18 didn't power up much and Krillin caught up.

8. What's wrong with Kale rivaling SSB Goku? Universe 7 was supposedly a bunch of weaklings when it came to power. Nothing wrong with other universes having Saiyans that are far far stronger naturally.

[LowRyder2005]

SSG Goku (DBS Anime) runs the gauntlet:
1. SS3 Goku (GT)
2. SS4 Goku (GT)
3. Syn Shenron
4. Ultra Full Power SS4 Goku (GT)
5. Omega Shenron
6. SS4 Gogeta (GT)

Omega acts as brick wall in my numbers. He is reportedly about ten times stronger than regular Omega, and Gogeta should probably (in turn) be at least three or four times his power, if not more.
I have Super Saiyan God about three times as strong as a Super Saiyan 4 Goku at the end of the series: the God form easily beats SS4 Goku, but it's in turn demolished by Omega.

Then again, if you follow the notion that Vegito can't beat the *suppressed* Beerus, and that Goku is not. It sounds filmsy, in my opinion. It would mean the enraged Vegeta far surpassed Vegito, and sounds so much random - since Vegeta trained indefatigably during the years post Cell Game and hardly surpassed Gohan - that I have a very hard time taking it seriously.
For the record, I also have SS4 Gogeta surpassing the current estimation of a fully powered Beerus.

Syn: 0.67
SS4 Goku: 0.99
SSG Goku: 2.5
Omega: 7
Beerus: 28
SS4 Gogeta: 32
Whis: 42

Boo absorbs Goku and Vegeta on the Kai planet and returns to Earth.

R1 - Can Gotenks stop Boogetto?
R2 - Can Gohan stop Boogetto?

It'd be Kid Buu + Goku + Vegeta, then? In that case, I have each of them defeating him with ease: he reaches 50% of Gohan's power, and about 30% of Gotenks'.
Now, Super Buu + Goku + Vegeta would be enough to put him slightly above Ultimate Gohan, however, which would spell defeat for the team.

What tier do you folks put the powered-up Basil in, or how do you factor the fruit power-up in general? I have it acting as a *25, which elevates Basil from Android-tier to Cell/ Super Perfect Cell.

[HeroR]

Strongest character Present Zamasu can beat?

He'd probably one-shot anyone and everyone from Z, including SSJ Vegetto. If Zamasu was able to contend with SSJ2 Goku, he's at least comparable to SSG Goku (BoG).

SSJ Goku = SSG - this was strongly indicated in BoG. I don't know why so many people have a hard time accepting it. Toss in some additional power ups Goku's received along the way, and it's not too farfetched to believe that SSJ Goku actually surpassed his SSG incarnation from BoG by a bit. But I honestly have no problem with keeping SSJ Goku (Future Trunks Saga) right at SSG tier.

In any case, if Zamasu was able to keep up with SSJ2 Goku (Future Trunks Saga), who should at least be twice as strong as is SSG self from BoG, I don't see how Zamasu is below SSG (BoG).

SSJ2 Goku (Future Trunks Saga) > / = Zamasu > SSJ Goku = SSG Goku > > > > > and at least 10 more (>) SSJ Vegetto >>> Buuhan

If Super Saiyan Goku from Battle of Gods equal Super Saiyan God after he absorbed it, it stand to reason that Super Saiyan Goku by the Future Trunks Saga would be stronger by a noticeable amount since Goku has been training for almost five years (three in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber) and Goku stated that Vegeta got stronger since when he fought Copy Vegeta and they were even.

[apex_pretador]

Boo absorbs Goku and Vegeta on the Kai planet and returns to Earth.

R1 - Can Gotenks stop Boogetto?
R2 - Can Gohan stop Boogetto?

Assuming Kid Buu absorbed SS3 Goku and SS2 Vegeta, he will be stronger than Gotenks or Gohan, and in addition he will be unpredictable, more skilled, with abilities such as candy beam, regeneration and deformable body.
The only way Earth can survive is Gotenks and Gohan combining their efforts in perfect teamwork and working competently, and that's assuming Buu doesn't simply blow the planet up.

New match:

- SSJB Goku (can use 10x Kaioken), SSJB Vegeta, Hit (fully improved), Jiren (unseen full power) vs. Whis (no holding back)

Whis should be above Beerus, who can stomp this team.

Whis wins

SSG Goku (DBS Anime) runs the gauntlet:
1. SS3 Goku (GT)
2. SS4 Goku (GT)
3. Syn Shenron
4. Ultra Full Power SS4 Goku (GT)
5. Omega Shenron
6. SS4 Gogeta (GT)

Clears with ease. Not much to elaborate

[dragon boss z]

He'd probably one-shot anyone and everyone from Z, including SSJ Vegetto. If Zamasu was able to contend with SSJ2 Goku, he's at least comparable to SSG Goku (BoG).

SSJ Goku = SSG - this was strongly indicated in BoG. I don't know why so many people have a hard time accepting it. Toss in some additional power ups Goku's received along the way, and it's not too farfetched to believe that SSJ Goku actually surpassed his SSG incarnation from BoG by a bit. But I honestly have no problem with keeping SSJ Goku (Future Trunks Saga) right at SSG tier.

In any case, if Zamasu was able to keep up with SSJ2 Goku (Future Trunks Saga), who should at least be twice as strong as is SSG self from BoG, I don't see how Zamasu is below SSG (BoG).

SSJ2 Goku (Future Trunks Saga) > / = Zamasu > SSJ Goku = SSG Goku > > > > > and at least 10 more (>) SSJ Vegetto >>> Buuhan

Ssj Caulifla then is SsjG level?

Nothing contradicts it so why not?

Imo Goku's ssj only equaled SSG during the fight with Beerus. He was somehow accessing all of his power, hence why he didn't even attempt to go ssj3.

[supercat]

Strongest character Present Zamasu can beat?

He'd probably one-shot anyone and everyone from Z, including SSJ Vegetto. If Zamasu was able to contend with SSJ2 Goku, he's at least comparable to SSG Goku (BoG).

SSJ Goku = SSG - this was strongly indicated in BoG. I don't know why so many people have a hard time accepting it. Toss in some additional power ups Goku's received along the way, and it's not too farfetched to believe that SSJ Goku actually surpassed his SSG incarnation from BoG by a bit. But I honestly have no problem with keeping SSJ Goku (Future Trunks Saga) right at SSG tier.

In any case, if Zamasu was able to keep up with SSJ2 Goku (Future Trunks Saga), who should at least be twice as strong as is SSG self from BoG, I don't see how Zamasu is below SSG (BoG).

SSJ2 Goku (Future Trunks Saga) > / = Zamasu > SSJ Goku = SSG Goku > > > > > and at least 10 more (>) SSJ Vegetto >>> Buuhan

If Super Saiyan Goku from Battle of Gods equal Super Saiyan God after he absorbed it, it stand to reason that Super Saiyan Goku by the Future Trunks Saga would be stronger by a noticeable amount since Goku has been training for almost five years (three in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber) and Goku stated that Vegeta got stronger since when he fought Copy Vegeta and they were even.

Absolutely. And both of these things were strongly indicated. After the fight with Beerus, it should be pretty clear that anyone who could stand up to SSJ Goku should at least be in the same realm of power as an SSG. Meaning both Zamasus are well above characters like SSJ Vegetto from the Buu saga and Buuhan.

Imo Goku's ssj only equaled SSG during the fight with Beerus. He was somehow accessing all of his power, hence why he didn't even attempt to go ssj3.

That was never once stated or even implied, whereas SSJ Goku taking on the powers of SSG actually was. There's nothing wrong with the newer characters being that powerful. If universe 7 was bottom tier as far as strength goes, I don't see the problem with other universes having fighters who are far stronger than what's considered legendary in universe 7.

[dragon boss z]

That was never once stated or even implied, whereas SSJ Goku taking on the powers of SSG actually was. There's nothing wrong with the newer characters being that powerful. If universe 7 was bottom tier as far as strength goes, I don't see the problem with other universes having fighters who are far stronger than what's considered legendary in universe 7.

It doesn't have to be stated, it is implied in the fights. If going ssj 3 would of made Goku stronger against Beerus he would of done it. We see how ssj3 turned Trunks into fodder and he was equal to ssj3 Goku. Beerus said he was using 100% so Goku should of tried to transform to win but he didn't. And then in the RoF arc King Kai was freaking out how Goku could become a god without the ritua now, but if he was always as strong as a god then there would be no reason to freak out. Also Piccolo who should of been around Cell level gave Frost problems who was able to fight a bit against ssj Goku. Goku did get a permanent boost from SSG but after his fight with Beerus he would have at least needed ssj3 to access his full power.

[supercat]

That was never once stated or even implied, whereas SSJ Goku taking on the powers of SSG actually was. There's nothing wrong with the newer characters being that powerful. If universe 7 was bottom tier as far as strength goes, I don't see the problem with other universes having fighters who are far stronger than what's considered legendary in universe 7.

It doesn't have to be stated, it is implied in the fights. If going ssj 3 would of made Goku stronger against Beerus he would of done it. We see how ssj3 turned Trunks into fodder and he was equal to ssj3 Goku. Beerus said he was using 100% so Goku should of tried to transform to win but he didn't. And then in the RoF arc King Kai was freaking out how Goku could become a god without the ritua now, but if he was always as strong as a god then there would be no reason to freak out. Also Piccolo who should of been around Cell level gave Frost problems who was able to fight a bit against ssj Goku. Goku did get a permanent boost from SSG but after his fight with Beerus he would have at least needed ssj3 to access his full power.

It's all speculation until it's somehow stated or proven. SSJ Goku retaining the powers of his ritual was directly stated, so you're basically taking a fan theory (that was probably made up to downplay new characters and previous fodders like 17 and Piccolo) and trying to counter something that was actually said to be a thing. Trunks was never equal to any form of Goku during their brief sparring match. Also, nothing wrong with Trunks coming back with a huge power up. It's been years since he was last shown in action and with all the training and chaos that he had to endure, I could see him at the very least surpassing levels that were once considered great in the Buu Saga. What's wrong with SSJ3 Goku defeating Trunks? Of course at that point, something like that would be the outcome. Goku as an SSJ3 (vs Future Trunks) was likely far above anything he showcased when faced off against Beerus, so why not?

Piccolo far surpassed Cell by the time he took on Frost. Plus nothing states him and Frost were close in power. Goku even stated Piccolo doesn't have a chance. Frost could be somewhere around Base Goku but notably below SSJ Goku and that would still put him far far above the likes of SSJ Vegetto and Buuhan.

As for the King Kai thing, it's probably because SSJ Goku was the one who kept the powers of the ritual, whereas Base Goku was not quite at that level yet. Toss that in with a brand new transformation and it's not that farfetched for King Kai to be surprised. But keep in mind, even if Base Goku didn't quite have access to all the powers of his ritual he would still likely be well above anything the Buu saga had to showcase, as SSJ is 50x Base and I have the ritually powered up Goku (vs Beerus) around 75x-100x stronger than SSJ Vegetto (Buu Saga) and around 150-250x stronger than Buuhan.

So assuming, SSJ Goku (pre training) = ritually powered up Goku (vs Beerus), as stated.

After training with Whis, Base Goku (RoF) should at least be 3-5x SSJ Vegetto (Buu Saga).

Buuhan: 1
SSJ Vegetto: 3
Base Goku (RoF): 9-15
SSJ Goku: 450-750
SSJ2 Goku: 900-1,500
SSJ3 Goku: 7,200-12,000

That of course, is all debatable since Final Form Frieza (RoF) was in his slim form and could be the same 3% Final Form Frieza that initially faced off against Goku.

If Final Form Frieza was using 100% of his Final Form's power rather than just around 3% I just multiply 226 to Base Goku onwards on that list.

[dragon boss z]

It's all speculation until it's somehow stated or proven. SSJ Goku retaining the powers of his ritual was directly stated, so you're basically taking a fan theory (that was probably made up to downplay new characters and previous fodders like 17 and Piccolo) and trying to counter something that was actually said to be a thing.

He did absorb the power, but it makes no sense for his ssj to be equal to SSG, that would mean after losing his god power he became 8x stronger because he could go ssj3. At best Goku's 100% max power after losing god power was equal to SSG, meaning his ssj3 from was equal to SSG. There is no way losing god power would make him stronger. So yest he kept god power, but no he did not all of a sudden get 8x stronger for no reason.

Trunks was never equal to any form of Goku during their brief sparring match.

He was near equal with ssj2 Goku. In the anime he one shot Trunks with ssj3 and in the manga he one shot Trunks with SSG (possible evidence anime ssj3 Goku=SSG)

Also, nothing wrong with Trunks coming back with a huge power up. It's been years since he was last shown in action and with all the training and chaos that he had to endure, I could see him at the very least surpassing levels that were once considered great in the Buu Saga. What's wrong with SSJ3 Goku defeating Trunks? Of course at that point, something like that would be the outcome. Goku as an SSJ3 (vs Future Trunks) was likely far above anything he showcased when faced off against Beerus, so why not?

ssj kid Trunks fought base future Trunks and future Trunks got a little scuffed up, though he did win. So base Trunks being above ssj3 Gotenks is most likely not the case.

Piccolo far surpassed Cell by the time he took on Frost. Plus nothing states him and Frost were close in power. Goku even stated Piccolo doesn't have a chance. Frost could be somewhere around Base Goku but notably below SSJ Goku and that would still put him far far above the likes of SSJ Vegetto and Buuhan.

No he didn't. He seemed to have gotten weaker in the RoF arc (he lost to a Frieza soldier and got one shot by first form Frieza) and recently after years of intense training again he was about equal to a ssj2 Gohan who just started training again and got his arm knocked off from one hit of mystic Gohan who was stated to be equal to his mystic form from the Buu saga.

As for the King Kai thing, it's probably because SSJ Goku was the one who kept the powers of the ritual, whereas Base Goku was not quite at that level yet. Toss that in with a brand new transformation and it's not that farfetched for King Kai to be surprised.

It's still a strange thing for him to say.

But keep in mind, even if Base Goku didn't quite have access to all the powers of his ritual he would still likely be well above anything the Buu saga had to showcase, as SSJ is 50x Base and I have the ritually powered up Goku (vs Beerus) around 75x-100x stronger than SSJ Vegetto (Buu Saga) and around 150-250x stronger than Buuhan.

It has been directly stated while training with Whis that they will become stronger if they keep all of their ki in their body.

So imo their regular base <<<ssj3 Gotenks<<their base while keeping all of their ki in<current ssj(50x regular base)<<<ssj3<=SSG<SSB(50x base while keeping all their ki in AKA ssj form while keeping all ki in).

This would actually explain a lot.