The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DB▪Magnum-Expert » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:03 am

TheGreatSaiyaman wrote:(TOP) Gohan vs Hit (U6 Arc)
(ToP) Gohan vs SSB Goku (U6), under the pretence that if he was to go KKx10, he's as strong as Current SSB at the start of the tournament..
(ToP)Gohan vs SSB Vegeta (U6)
GT SS2 Gohan vs SSG Goku, assuming SS2 is stacked onto his prime 'Ultimate' state and he's been training and is in-shape.

Watagash-infected Barry Kahn vs Broly :D
-Gohan stomps. He's a rival to SsjB Goku before he improves through the Tournament, who far surpassed his earlier levels.

-Going by that assumption, Kaioken Goku solos. But the thing is, SsjB Goku in the Tournament of Power far surpasses his previous counterparts

-Gohan stomps, same point as the first one

-SsjG Goku stomps. Gohan in GT stacks his Ssj and Ssj2 onto his base which is Ultimate Gohan (GT follows the logic of Ultimate Gohan prior to the retcon)

-Barry Kahn roflstomps, although it hurts me when I say that lmao
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:24 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
dragon boss z wrote: You know he said Black saga, not Buu saga right?
Sorry I meant SS Kefla is stronger than SS3 Vegetto from the Black arc.
Really? What makes yous say that? Goku and Vegeta from the Black arc are still much stronger than Kale and Caulifla so Vegito should be as well. And the manga seems to back this up since it looked like base Vegito may of been around Blue tier.
TheGreatSaiyaman wrote: (TOP) Gohan vs Hit (U6 Arc)
(ToP) Gohan vs SSB Goku (U6), under the pretence that if he was to go KKx10, he's as strong as Current SSB at the start of the tournament..
(ToP)Gohan vs SSB Vegeta (U6)
GT SS2 Gohan vs SSG Goku, assuming SS2 is stacked onto his prime 'Ultimate' state and he's been training and is in-shape.

Watagash-infected Barry Kahn vs Broly :D
-Hit. Gohan's only chance is if he learns how Hit fights, even then he probably loses
-Goku wins without kaioken.
-Vegeta
-Gohan if his super saiyan multipliers stayed the same.
-Broly one shots

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:45 pm

DB▪Magnum-Expert wrote:Vegito from the Buu Saga (can go Ssj3, no strain, no time limit) runs the following GT Guantlet (In no particular order)

Who does he beat, and who does he lose to?

1.) Ssj Gohan (Super Android 17 Saga)

2.) Metal Rildo (On Planet M-2)

3.) Base Nuova Shenron

4.) Golden Oozaru Baby Vegeta

5.) Majuub (Baby Saga)

6.) Omega Shenron

7.) Super Android 17

8.) Ssj Goten and Trunks (Super Android 17 Saga)

9.) Ssj4 Goku (Shadow Dragons Arc)

10.) Pan (Shadow Dragons Arc)
Vegito SSJ3 probably beats everyone beside SSJ4 Goku (any arc), Super 17, Baby Oozaru and Omega Shenron
Vegito SSJ gets stomped by everyone beside Pan and Goten&Trunks (unless fused into Gotenks SSJ3).
AvatarReiko wrote: Adult SSJ3 Goku vs Baby Vegeta 2
Baby wrecks even without his Super Baby 1 and Super Baby 2 forms.
Kid Goku had less stamina, but his power was the same and SSJ3 was nothing compared to SSJ Baby Vegeta.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by jeffbr92 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:49 pm

DB▪Magnum-Expert wrote:
jeffbr92 wrote:Adult (GT) SSJ3 Goku (can use Dragon Fist) vs. Baby-Vegeta (cannot transform)
Adult or Kid, his strength hasn't changed at all. But another question is, specify which Arc Goku's from, and which form is Baby Vegeta in which he's not supposed to ascend past?
Not that his strength has changed, but Kid GT SSJ3 Goku said he couldn't mantain SSJ3 in such a small body, that's why I said "Adult", is the arc when he fought Baby. When I say he can't transform, I mean he stuck in that form
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:21 pm

dragon boss z wrote: Really? What makes yous say that? Goku and Vegeta from the Black arc are still much stronger than Kale and Caulifla so Vegito should be as well. And the manga seems to back this up since it looked like base Vegito may of been around Blue tier.
Mastered Super Saiyan Bersek is way stronger than SS3 so it scales that way.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:46 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
dragon boss z wrote: Really? What makes yous say that? Goku and Vegeta from the Black arc are still much stronger than Kale and Caulifla so Vegito should be as well. And the manga seems to back this up since it looked like base Vegito may of been around Blue tier.
Mastered Super Saiyan Bersek is way stronger than SS3 so it scales that way.
But Blue is stronger than berserk. And we really don't know how fusion works. Maybe their ssj form is stronger because it has berserk power, but if it's just base forms I would say Vegito>Kefla.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DB▪Magnum-Expert » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:47 am

sunsetshimmer wrote:
DB▪Magnum-Expert wrote:Vegito from the Buu Saga (can go Ssj3, no strain, no time limit) runs the following GT Guantlet (In no particular order)

Who does he beat, and who does he lose to?

1.) Ssj Gohan (Super Android 17 Saga)

2.) Metal Rildo (On Planet M-2)

3.) Base Nuova Shenron

4.) Golden Oozaru Baby Vegeta

5.) Majuub (Baby Saga)

6.) Omega Shenron

7.) Super Android 17

8.) Ssj Goten and Trunks (Super Android 17 Saga)

9.) Ssj4 Goku (Shadow Dragons Arc)

10.) Pan (Shadow Dragons Arc)
Vegito SSJ3 probably beats everyone beside SSJ4 Goku (any arc), Super 17, Baby Oozaru and Omega Shenron
Vegito SSJ gets stomped by everyone beside Pan and Goten&Trunks (unless fused into Gotenks SSJ3).
Why would he win against Gohan, Rildo, Majuub, and Base Nuova Shenron who surpassed any GT villain prior to his appearance? Goten and Trunks got far too amped in GT

I just want to know you stance on this
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DB▪Magnum-Expert » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:49 am

jeffbr92 wrote:
DB▪Magnum-Expert wrote:
jeffbr92 wrote:Adult (GT) SSJ3 Goku (can use Dragon Fist) vs. Baby-Vegeta (cannot transform)
Adult or Kid, his strength hasn't changed at all. But another question is, specify which Arc Goku's from, and which form is Baby Vegeta in which he's not supposed to ascend past?
Not that his strength has changed, but Kid GT SSJ3 Goku said he couldn't mantain SSJ3 in such a small body, that's why I said "Adult", is the arc when he fought Baby. When I say he can't transform, I mean he stuck in that form
Goku as a kid could maintain Ssj3 with a tail though. Anyways, Baby Vegeta stomps.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:59 am

dragon boss z wrote:
ZombieVito wrote:
dragon boss z wrote: Really? What makes yous say that? Goku and Vegeta from the Black arc are still much stronger than Kale and Caulifla so Vegito should be as well. And the manga seems to back this up since it looked like base Vegito may of been around Blue tier.
Mastered Super Saiyan Bersek is way stronger than SS3 so it scales that way.
But Blue is stronger than berserk. And we really don't know how fusion works. Maybe their ssj form is stronger because it has berserk power, but if it's just base forms I would say Vegito>Kefla.
But I never even talked about Blue haha. The match said SS.

And yeah Vegetto is stronger but not by much.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:32 am

ZombieVito wrote:
dragon boss z wrote:
ZombieVito wrote: Mastered Super Saiyan Bersek is way stronger than SS3 so it scales that way.
But Blue is stronger than berserk. And we really don't know how fusion works. Maybe their ssj form is stronger because it has berserk power, but if it's just base forms I would say Vegito>Kefla.
But I never even talked about Blue haha. The match said SS.

And yeah Vegetto is stronger but not by much.
I brought up Blue because it's possible fusion takes max power into consideration, even while in base. But ya, if you agree base Vegito> base Kefla and ssj Kefla only beats ssj Vegito due to the berserk power I could agree with that. But I think ssj3 might be too much as Kale and Caulifla seemed pretty amazed by it when they were fighting him. I think ssj3 should be enough to pull the win.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:31 am

DB▪Magnum-Expert wrote: Why would he win against Gohan, Rildo, Majuub, and Base Nuova Shenron who surpassed any GT villain prior to his appearance? Goten and Trunks got far too amped in GT

I just want to know you stance on this
According to Goku and Baby, Super Baby 1 was stronger than Vegito SSJ from Buu saga. Was he stronger than SSJ2 or SSJ3? Hard to tell, so i just assumed that Super Baby 1 is between SSJ Vegito and SSJ2 Vegito. If you have any argument why is Super Baby 1 even stronger i'd like to hear it.

Majuub actually forced Super Baby 2 to use full power which means he would be somewhere on Super Baby 1 level.

Rildo and Gohan were clearly weaker than that.

Now when it comes to base Nuova, he was slightly stronger than base Goku.
At this point, base Goku seemed to be stronger than Majuub and so SSJ Vegito, but once again, i can't find any proof that he would be stronger than SSJ3 Vegito.
And how do you know Nuova was stronger than any villain before? And i am not asking about FUNimation line because it doesn't really count at all. If i remember well, Goku only said that Nuova is leagues beyond previous dragons but i might be wrong.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DB▪Magnum-Expert » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:18 am

sunsetshimmer wrote:According to Goku and Baby, Super Baby 1 was stronger than Vegito SSJ from Buu saga. Was he stronger than SSJ2 or SSJ3? Hard to tell, so i just assumed that Super Baby 1 is between SSJ Vegito and SSJ2 Vegito. If you have any argument why is Super Baby 1 even stronger i'd like to hear it.
Goku's Base is stated to be stronger than Buu in General, all out. GT Follows the Anime, which shows Buuhan pushing Ssj Vegito at full power. Goku then got stronger In this same arc to kill Rildo casually with Pan and Trunks (they're fodder to Goku, so supposedly they wouldn't affect the power output much), with a single Kamehameha. Another point is, Infant Baby > Rildo By far, and by that Time Trunks has already surpassed Infant Baby.

Infant Baby is fodder to Goku, Trunks and Pan. Goten in Base Form went up against Baby who absorbed many Human power and Rildo, and Goten even confirms he's stronger than any claim Goten ever encountered up till that point. Base Goku > Ssj Gohan, and Gohan's Base > Ssj Goten, with Baby's Power. That easily makes Goku above anything of Vegito's level considering fodder characters to Base Goku baby arc are at his level.
sunsetshimmer wrote:Majuub actually forced Super Baby 2 to use full power which means he would be somewhere on Super Baby 1 level.

Rildo and Gohan were clearly weaker than that.
Rildo is weaker, However Gohan In the Super Android 17 Saga at full power was implied to be above Majuub in base form. Majuub > Ssj3 Goku baby arc
sunsetshimmer wrote:Now when it comes to base Nuova, he was slightly stronger than base Goku.
At this point, base Goku seemed to be stronger than Majuub and so SSJ Vegito, but once again, i can't find any proof that he would be stronger than SSJ3 Vegito.
When you say "Vegito", that would imply his power in its entirety. Base Nuova Shenron is stated to be the strongest shadow dragons, which means he's stronger than Naturon and Rage Shenron who could tank and to up against Ssj4 Goku, and Base Goku is relative to Nuova Shenron in base (which means Goku somehow got stronger)
sunsetshimmer wrote:And how do you know Nuova was stronger than any villain before? And i am not asking about FUNimation line because it doesn't really count at all. If i remember well, Goku only said that Nuova is leagues beyond previous dragons but i might be wrong.
Partially explained above
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dragonball0900 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:40 pm

DB▪Magnum-Expert wrote: What do you mean "in fact they are not"? They became God Tier and it absolutely makes sense, considering we already know that Base Goku is far beyond SsjG BoG. Thinking that he isn't is utterly ridiculous. You're basically assuming things, and your argument is this: "I think Character A is this strong", but no evidence, let alone a proof, is there to suggest it's a "fact".
Listen, arguing about things in Super won't reach to anything. Super's power scalling is not the best and I think we should both know that. Who knows that maybe by the time the U6 arc arrives they forgot about what was shown in the ROF arc about "Goku's base being in God tier". There's no reason to think that characters like Piccolo got a massive jump to reach god tier. That doesn't make sense at all, and the story does not show that, besides Vegeta needed SSJ to finish off Frost, so he didn't lose all that much power to begin with. We will never know the answers of Super until Toriyama or some writer confirms it, but for now I'm cautious about these things okay? We will never agree with each other in the end so let's agree to disagree.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:02 pm

dragon boss z wrote: I brought up Blue because it's possible fusion takes max power into consideration, even while in base. But ya, if you agree base Vegito> base Kefla and ssj Kefla only beats ssj Vegito due to the berserk power I could agree with that. But I think ssj3 might be too much as Kale and Caulifla seemed pretty amazed by it when they were fighting him. I think ssj3 should be enough to pull the win.
Kale was amazed of that power but then she got stronger as well. She even battled with SSG Goku and wasn't beaten that badly.

Mastered Super Saiyan Berker is stronger than Super Saiyan 3, no way around that.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DB▪Magnum-Expert » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:16 pm

dragonball0900 wrote:Listen, arguing about things in Super won't reach to anything. Super's power scalling is not the best and I think we should both know that. Who knows that maybe by the time the U6 arc arrives they forgot about what was shown in the ROF arc about "Goku's base being in God tier".
Just because Dragon Ball Super Is inconsistent on many occasions, doesn't mean we won't reach into any conclusion. DBS is so full of contradictions, but we have to deal with them, not bash it. You can't assume they forgot about it, as we do know it was mentioned and never once was it contradicted back Then, so we roll with it. In fact, Universe 6 Arc supports my argument about Goku's base being God Tier.
dragonball0900 wrote:There's no reason to think that characters like Piccolo got a massive jump to reach god tier. That doesn't make sense at all
First you say that we shouldn't argue about Dragon Ball Super, but you're proceeding here. I'm not trying to be offensive on the matter, but I'm actually noting what you're doing in accordance to what you said earlier.

"That doesn't make sense at all" is not an argument mate. As long as there's evidence to suggest it, then that's that. Just because it doesn't make sense in our eyes, without evidence to support our thoughts, it's useless to deny it
dragonball0900 wrote:and the story does not show that, besides Vegeta needed SSJ to finish off Frost, so he didn't lose all that much power to begin with.
Vegeta Going Ssj doesn't prove that he needed so. By that Logic, Goku needed to go Ssj against Basil, while his base was relative to Bergamo who's far beyond Basil and Lavender combined. The only thing this shows is Vegeta Going Ssj to completely one shot frost, and avoid the poisen from Frost. What you're also saying contradicts what's mentioned by Frost himself and What's implied by Goku, despite it being supported.
dragonball0900 wrote:We will never know the answers of Super until Toriyama or some writer confirms it, but for now I'm cautious about these things okay? We will never agree with each other in the end so let's agree to disagree.
Apparently we can't count on Toriyama or his Staff to confirm everything, because apparently they won't. You don't see every single information in the show is clarified by them, and it's not their job to explain everything. I'll agree to disagree, but I didn't like how this ended
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:00 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
dragon boss z wrote: I brought up Blue because it's possible fusion takes max power into consideration, even while in base. But ya, if you agree base Vegito> base Kefla and ssj Kefla only beats ssj Vegito due to the berserk power I could agree with that. But I think ssj3 might be too much as Kale and Caulifla seemed pretty amazed by it when they were fighting him. I think ssj3 should be enough to pull the win.
Kale was amazed of that power but then she got stronger as well. She even battled with SSG Goku and wasn't beaten that badly.

Mastered Super Saiyan Berker is stronger than Super Saiyan 3, no way around that.
Well imo the gap in pure power between current ssj3 and SSG isn't that much. Goku "absorbed" god ki if that hasn't been retconned so imo his max power of ssj should be able to reach close to ssj3 but it puts strain on his body. SSG allows him to access the full power of a god again without the strain. In the manga the gap is still big, but that's because Goku never absorbed god ki into his base and the multiplier of SSG never changed.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by dragonball0900 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:26 am

1. Piccolo (Post King Kai, Pre Nail Fusion) vs Recoome, Burter and Jeice

2. SSJ Gotenks (post ROSAT) vs SSJ3 Goku (Full Power)

4. SSJ Gogeta vs SSJ3 Gotenks

5. Copy Vegeta vs SSJ Vegito (Buu arc)

6. Base Goku Black vs Final Form Frieza (ROF arc)

7. SSJ Future Trunks (Black arc, anime) vs Zamasu

In my opinion, I give the first round to Piccolo, even with his weights he would defeat them one on one, though it would be hard if the three team up against him. However, without his weights, he stomps all of them with ease, since I have him 20 times stronger than his saiyan arc self (3,500*20=70,000, even though I have Piccolo at 2,700 in that arc).

The second round I'll give it to SSJ3 Goku, their powers are actually a bit close but not that much, based on my numbers and fusion formulas I gave to the characters I have their gap the same as Goku and Gohan during the Cell Games, and with Goku's skill and experience, he takkes the win.

The third round I give it to Gotenks, even though many people overrate Gogeta, we have to remember that Gotenks is SSJ3 here, and Goten and Trunks are not like 10 times weaker than Goku and Vegeta, as well as the fact that this is not the potara fusion.

This round I give it to Copy Vegeta, considering he was beating Gotenks as a SSJ3 easily and transformed into SSJ Blue instead of SSJ against Goku, that means that Copy Vegeta was in Saiyan Beyond God state, which is nearly the same as SSJ God, and this Vegeta is much stronger than SSJ God Goku from Battle of Gods, who is stronger than SSJ Vegito. So Copy Vegeta takes this.

Given how Black was able to hold his own against SSJ Blue Vegeta in his base form, something that Final Form Frieza wouldn't be able to do given he was weaker than Saiyan Beyond God Goku, which is a state much weaker than the Blue form, I'll give this to Goku Black.

If we take into account that SSJ Future Trunks was probably close to SSJ3 Goku, though not as much as being able to defeat him, then he's probably above SSJ2 Goku and Zamasu in his SSJ state. I reckon he would win against Zamasu easily.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:06 am

dragonball0900 wrote:1. Piccolo (Post King Kai, Pre Nail Fusion) vs Recoome, Burter and Jeice
Add the Captain and Piccolo still rekts 'em all. Piccolo is implied to be on the ~300k range prior to merging with Nail.
2. SSJ Gotenks (post ROSAT) vs SSJ3 Goku (Full Power)
Base Gotenks stomps.
4. SSJ Gogeta vs SSJ3 Gotenks

Gogeta is a notch above Gotenks IMO. He wins due to better techniques, mindset and more time. I find doubtful SSJ3 was taken into account when Gohan-Boo > Gogeta was stated since only Goku has SSJ3, so via multipliers Gogeta ends up around Gotenks.

You skipped No. 3 btw.
5. Copy Vegeta vs SSJ Vegito (Buu arc)
Base Saiyans > SSJG Goku, Copy Vegeta finger clicks here.
6. Base Goku Black vs Final Form Frieza (ROF arc)
Black was stated to be >= SSJ3 Goku by Trunks, fought evenly with SSJ2 Goku (Probably was holding back) and held his own with Blue Vegeta. Anyone on his right state of mind knows Black wrecks Freeza's shit here. Probably even Golden Freeza would lose.
7. SSJ Future Trunks (Black arc, anime) vs Zamasu
Present or Future Zamasu? But either way Zamasu stomps. He held his own with SSJ2 Goku, who was on equal footing with SSJ2 Trunks.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:23 pm

- SsjR Goku Black and Future Zamasu vs Aniraza

- Ssj2 Caulifla, Ssj2 Cabba and Ssj Berserker Kale (uncontrolled) vs Ssj Baby Gohan, Ssj Baby Goten and Ssj Baby Trunks (all from the Baby Vegeta saga)

- Semi-Perfect Cell vs Biarra

- 17 (TOP) vs Ssj Rage Trunks (vs Merged Zamasu, no Genkisword)

- Hakaishin Toppo vs SsjB Vegetto

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by kn83 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:20 pm

Zamasu55 wrote:- SsjR Goku Black and Future Zamasu vs Aniraza

- Ssj2 Caulifla, Ssj2 Cabba and Ssj Berserker Kale (uncontrolled) vs Ssj Baby Gohan, Ssj Baby Goten and Ssj Baby Trunks (all from the Baby Vegeta saga)

- Semi-Perfect Cell vs Biarra

- 17 (TOP) vs Ssj Rage Trunks (vs Merged Zamasu, no Genkisword)

- Hakaishin Toppo vs SsjB Vegetto
- Black and Zamasu win with extreme difficulty
- Base Cabba alone solos GT, its a stomp
- maybe Biarra
- Current 17 wins mid-difficulty
- Vegito Blue wins, God Toppo is only KKx20 SSB Goku level.

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