Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
apex_pretador wrote:
Either of them finger-flicks with 1% power.
I'll pretend this DBS episode never happened.
Unfortunately we can't do this
IMO Android 17 wins both fights with difficult mostly due his infinite stamina.
Guys stop taking this stuff seriously. Goku held back a lot. The only reason they're showing blue is because I bet a new form is coming soon. So they're milking it as much as possible. 17 is not God level
Yeah lets ignore the the fact that goku didn't even intend to use ssjb and thought ssj was enough for him.
Lets ignore that goku said if he was an enemy he would be terrifying .
He's god level get ove it
I didn't like freeza bs power up into god tier in four months but i got over it
I didn't like trunks asspulls to push him to blue tier in two days and i got over it
Android 17 is god tier and theres nothing you can do about it.
HybridSaiyan wrote:Mr.Satan vs SSB Vegito? DBS style.
A fight to the death, who wins?
Vegito, but only because the champ is holding back.
Probably Kanzenshuu's biggest Bulla fangirl. Current avatar: DBU Bulla as Sailor Princess Sadala, based on Sailor Moon: Cosmic Dance
Dragon Ball Ultimate - 74 out of 150 chapters complete JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Action Blue - link Sailor Moon: Mindful of Love - link | Sailor Moon: Cosmic Dance - link
IMO Android 17 wins both fights with difficult mostly due his infinite stamina.
Guys stop taking this stuff seriously. Goku held back a lot. The only reason they're showing blue is because I bet a new form is coming soon. So they're milking it as much as possible. 17 is not God level
Yeah lets ignore the the fact that goku didn't even intend to use ssjb and thought ssj was enough for him.
Lets ignore that goku said if he was an enemy he would be terrifying .
He's god level get ove it
I didn't like freeza bs power up into god tier in four months but i got over it
I didn't like trunks asspulls to push him to blue tier in two days and i got over it
Android 17 is god tier and theres nothing you can do about it.
Dude 17 isn't god tier. He isn't that strong. This is first time we seen this guy in years. They wanted it to be badass and cool. Since it's also the first time he has seen goku. 17 isn't god tier. Goku could have destroyed him at any time.
Berserker1921 wrote:
Guys stop taking this stuff seriously. Goku held back a lot. The only reason they're showing blue is because I bet a new form is coming soon. So they're milking it as much as possible. 17 is not God level
Yeah lets ignore the the fact that goku didn't even intend to use ssjb and thought ssj was enough for him.
Lets ignore that goku said if he was an enemy he would be terrifying .
He's god level get ove it
I didn't like freeza bs power up into god tier in four months but i got over it
I didn't like trunks asspulls to push him to blue tier in two days and i got over it
Android 17 is god tier and theres nothing you can do about it.
Dude 17 isn't god tier. He isn't that strong. This is first time we seen this guy in years. They wanted it to be badass and cool. Since it's also the first time he has seen goku. 17 isn't god tier. Goku could have destroyed him at any time. Krillin isn't god tier. But goku went blue to give him confidence and held back so much. So he wouldn't kill his friend. Goku can't kill 17 cause he needs him. He turned blue because he was surprised.remember they're trying to give 17 a cool reintroduction.
Berserker1921 wrote:
Guys stop taking this stuff seriously. Goku held back a lot. The only reason they're showing blue is because I bet a new form is coming soon. So they're milking it as much as possible. 17 is not God level
Yeah lets ignore the the fact that goku didn't even intend to use ssjb and thought ssj was enough for him.
Lets ignore that goku said if he was an enemy he would be terrifying .
He's god level get ove it
I didn't like freeza bs power up into god tier in four months but i got over it
I didn't like trunks asspulls to push him to blue tier in two days and i got over it
Android 17 is god tier and theres nothing you can do about it.
Dude 17 isn't god tier. He isn't that strong. This is first time we seen this guy in years. They wanted it to be badass and cool. Since it's also the first time he has seen goku. 17 isn't god tier. Goku could have destroyed him at any time.
He is god tier this isnt like krillin where he was just testing him to see what he could do to someone around his level
Goku specifically stated i didn't even intend to use this form meaning 17 is way above ssj2 and ssj3 levels of power
If he wasn't goku would've just bust out ssj2 or ssj3 to handle him.
The fact that 17 could push him to it means he's god tier level not to mention him holding his own against him despite both holding back.
He's god tier get used to it.
Ah, no, I was a bit unclear. I meant "defeats Frost" as "he defeats everyone up until Frost". He can beat Tagoma in my book. As you can probably see by yourself, though, people's opinions will widely vary and everyone will bring some compelling points in favor of one or another interpretation.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Hmm... that's a good one. If you buy into the idea that Goku is just magically waaaay more durable than a human at the same power level due to his Saiyan-ness (...despite not really seeming drastically more durable than humans of a similar power level once he starts fighting serious martial artists later in Dragonball, and some other non-Saiyans like Bora also showing off the ability to shrug off bullets so it's not like only Goku ever did that...), then Goku definitely wins, though it might still at least look like a decent fight until Mr. Satan gets injured and panics.
But if not, I could see them being pretty much evenly matched. Mr. Satan would be a lot more likely to freak out if injured, which is a definite disadvantage... but on the other hand, he's probably got more actual fighting skill than beginning-of-Dragonball Goku, considering that he's an actual trained fighter (who just doesn't know how to use ki) while Goku's just a kid who pretty much just picked up some very basic techniques from Grandpa Gohan before his death and then coasted along on his superior-to-ordinary-humans-and-wildlife strength until meeting Roshi and getting real training.
Hmm... that's a good one. If you buy into the idea that Goku is just magically waaaay more durable than a human at the same power level due to his Saiyan-ness (...despite not really seeming drastically more durable than humans of a similar power level once he starts fighting serious martial artists later in Dragonball, and some other non-Saiyans like Bora also showing off the ability to shrug off bullets so it's not like only Goku ever did that...), then Goku definitely wins, though it might still at least look like a decent fight until Mr. Satan gets injured and panics.
But if not, I could see them being pretty much evenly matched. Mr. Satan would be a lot more likely to freak out if injured, which is a definite disadvantage... but on the other hand, he's probably got more actual fighting skill than beginning-of-Dragonball Goku, considering that he's an actual trained fighter (who just doesn't know how to use ki) while Goku's just a kid who pretty much just picked up some very basic techniques from Grandpa Gohan before his death and then coasted along on his superior-to-ordinary-humans-and-wildlife strength until meeting Roshi and getting real training.
BoDB Goku was able to balance himself effortlessly while walking on a lodge with a sword, was casually standing on top of the sword of that Bear Thief after moving at FTE movement, and learned how to drive Bulma's motorcycle in under a minute to defeat that Pterodactyl. His level of skill was way more impressive than Mr. Satan (who never displayed any especially great feats of skill) even before training with Muten Roshi.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
