The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[ricky84]

Shin has power around SPC

Not really. Goku threatened to one shot him as a Super Saiyan.

I think Buu Saga Goku is around CG MSsj. That's why i think Shin is around SPC level.

Shin was stated to be equal to Cell Games Goku on the La legendario manga guide and the Super Exciting Guide. Dabura is the one that's Super Perfect Cell level.

[dragon boss z]

We also know that he is even with the Goku who's SSJ was stated to have surpassed SSG. So at a minimum he is a 50th of SSG even assuming he had no training gains from Whis.(Obviously not)
SSJ Goku(post-ritual)>SSG>SSJ3 Vegetto>SSJ Vegetto>RoF Base Goku/Final Form Freeza

Or to put it in quantitatively....

Super Saiyan 3 Goku: 1
BoG Super Saiyan God Goku: 20,000
BoG SSJ Goku(post-ritual): 22,000
BoG Base Goku(post-ritual): 440

RoF Base Goku: 880 (assuming he got twice as strong from training with Whis)
RoF FInal Form Freeza: 880

SSJ Goku: 1
Base Vegetto: 25
SSJ Vegetto: 1250

So, the only way that you could possibly spin things in such a way that Base Vegetto would have any chance in hell of beating RoF Final Form Freeza is if you have an obscenely small multiplier for Super Saiyan God. Which, is going to be proportional to Vegetto anyways since we know SSG is superior to SSJ3 Vegetto so even then you couldn't really spin things that way either.

I don't see why the regular multipliers wouldn't apply to fusions.

The reason I think regular multipliers wouldn't apply to fusions is because fusions bring more of the latent battle powers of the warriors out, and fusion transformations never seemed that powerful tbh. It was implied base Gotenks may have surpassed ssj Gotenks after a few weeks of training, in the anime base Vegito went from stomping Buu, then went ssj and went to just stomping Buu a little more, in the super manga base Vegito was strong enough to blast half of fused Zamasu's body off, which implies he is at least around SSB tier, and then he goes SSB and he didn't just snap Zamasu out of existence. If Vegito got the full multiplier there then SSB Vegito should have been thousands of times base Vegito who could already blast half of Zamasu's body off.

So I could see the scale going like this, in which base Goku and RoF final form Frieza would be 2x base Vegito and 5x weaker than ssj Vegito. Really it's guess work from both of us, but I could see Frieza (while suppressed) being below base Vegito. I think if he went full buff like he did in the ToP that should be enough to surpass base Vegito solidly, but as for his skinny form I could see it being in the base Vegito range.

fat Buu: 1
base Vegito: 5
post ritual base Goku: 10
ssj Vegito: 50
ssj3 Vegito: 400
SSG Goku: 500

[Hulk10]

New Broly vs Super Buu who would win?

[RecolorSaiyan]

New Broly vs Super Buu who would win?

Um broly incinerates

[Hulk10]

New Broly vs Super Buu who would win?

Um broly incinerates

Imagine if new Broly had the same forms as old Broly, which he could.

[PFM18]

New Broly vs Super Buu who would win?

Is this a serious question?

in the anime base Vegito went from stomping Buu, then went ssj and went to just stomping Buu a little more

Yeah a very suppressed iteration of SSJ Vegetto was only stomping a bit more. Vegetto made comments about how he wasn't using his full-power and when he used more he would state it. This isn't exactly evidence of a weaker than 50x multiplier for SSJ Goku. Either way, this didn't happen in the original manga and it takes precedence.

in the super manga base Vegito was strong enough to blast half of fused Zamasu's body off

If Vegito got the full multiplier there then SSB Vegito should have been thousands of times base Vegito who could already blast half of Zamasu's body off.

The manga is irrelevant to this conversation.(And that's just an example of it being horrendously inconsistent rather than evidence of a decreased multiplier)

So I could see the scale going like this, in which base Goku and RoF final form Frieza would be 2x base Vegito and 5x weaker than ssj Vegito. Really it's guess work from both of us, but I could see Frieza (while suppressed) being below base Vegito. I think if he went full buff like he did in the ToP that should be enough to surpass base Vegito solidly, but as for his skinny form I could see it being in the base Vegito range.

This is an interesting take on things and to some extent this is guess work. Although there's a bit of head canon on your part, generally your argument is logically coherent and I can respect it. See, the only problem is that your scale doesn't take into account power gains that Goku made training with Whis before RoF. It assumes that he gained 0 power in this time which is obviously not the case.

[dragon boss z]

This is an interesting take on things and to some extent this is guess work. Although there's a bit of head canon on your part, generally your argument is logically coherent and I can respect it. See, the only problem is that your scale doesn't take into account power gains that Goku made training with Whis before RoF. It assumes that he gained 0 power in this time which is obviously not the case.

True, but during the Black arc Vegeta was questioning if they could get much stronger, which means their gains were probably stagnating a bit. But yes, final form Frieza and base Goku could very well have been above base Vegito. I definitely got that vibe when I first watched RoF, but it just seems like they keep trying to nerf them in future arcs. More so base Goku rather than final form Frieza.

[Hulk10]

new Broly SS4 vs Whis who would win?

[Ssjcell]

new Broly SS4 vs Whis who would win?

Whis ... Here's a classic SS2 Gohan the one who fights cell vs Goku SS2 (Buu arc) and vs majin vegeta SS2 I have Gohan beating both of them slight difficulty (I know Vegeta said Goku was as strong as his son) but it was 7 years later and I don't ever take what vegeta says seriously he probably wanted to make himself feel better about his current power and Goku,Vegeta both still said if he gets mad no one can beat him ala when he fought cell and Buu saga Gohan imo is only slightly weaker than his younger self but still weaker with less battle sense

[MainJPW]

new Broly SS4 vs Whis who would win?

What does “new” mean? Toriyama’s Broli? Then Whis oneshots.

[Nokra]

1.) UI Goku Black (Scythe) vs. FP Jiren, GOD Toppo and Max Speed Dyspo (Deathmatch)
2.) Ultimate Gohan (TOP) vs. Rage Trunks (TOP) (No Hope Sword)
3.) SSBE Vegeta vs. SS3 Kefla (No time limit)
4.) SSB Vegito vs. SSB Gogeta (Both Post-TOP) (No time limit)
5.) Ranger 17 vs. Majin Android 21 (Cell absorbed)
6. Muten Roshi (TOP) vs. FP Garlic Jr.
7.) Tagoma (Ginyu) vs. SS2 Gohan (Buu arc)
8.) Majin Vegeta vs. Majin Goku
9.) Zen-Oh's Attendants vs. The Angels
10.) Zen-Oh vs. All of Dragonball (Except Tori-Bot)
11.) Tori-Bot vs The Dragonball Fandom
12.) Chi-chi vs. Yurin
13.) Zuno vs. Bulma (Battle of Brains)
14.) Zen-Oh vs. Dragon God Zalama
15.) Present Zamasu vs. Kibito Kai
16.) Omega Shenron vs. SSG Goku (BOG arc)
17.) SSJ Pan vs. SSJ Caulifla
18.) Super 17 vs. Super Baby Vegeta
19.) Mercenary Tao vs. Hit (Both are equal in power and can use time-skip)
20.) UI Beerus vs. UI Goku, FP Jiren and GOD Toppo

[dragon boss z]

1.) UI Goku Black (Scythe) vs. FP Jiren, GOD Toppo and Max Speed Dyspo (Deathmatch)
2.) Ultimate Gohan (TOP) vs. Rage Trunks (TOP) (No Hope Sword)
3.) SSBE Vegeta vs. SS3 Kefla (No time limit)
4.) SSB Vegito vs. SSB Gogeta (Both Post-TOP) (No time limit)
5.) Ranger 17 vs. Majin Android 21 (Cell absorbed)
6. Muten Roshi (TOP) vs. FP Garlic Jr.
7.) Tagoma (Ginyu) vs. SS2 Gohan (Buu arc)
8.) Majin Vegeta vs. Majin Goku
9.) Zen-Oh's Attendants vs. The Angels
10.) Zen-Oh vs. All of Dragonball (Except Tori-Bot)
11.) Tori-Bot vs The Dragonball Fandom
12.) Chi-chi vs. Yurin
13.) Zuno vs. Bulma (Battle of Brains)
14.) Zen-Oh vs. Dragon God Zalama
15.) Present Zamasu vs. Kibito Kai
16.) Omega Shenron vs. SSG Goku (BOG arc)
17.) SSJ Pan vs. SSJ Caulifla
18.) Super 17 vs. Super Baby Vegeta
19.) Mercenary Tao vs. Hit (Both are equal in power and can use time-skip)
20.) UI Beerus vs. UI Goku, FP Jiren and GOD Toppo

1. Black would probably get overwhelmed or run out of time. If he has unlimited UI then I can see him winning as Toppo and Dyspo won't be that much help.
2. Could go either way.
3. Hard to say since we never saw ssj3 Kefla, but I guess with no time limit I could see her winning.
4. Potara fusion is stated to be stronger, so Vegito.
5. Pass
6. Roshi probably seals him with mafuba.
7. Gohan stomps. ssj2 buu arc Gohan is stronger than RoF ssj Gohan.
8. Majin Goku easily. Goku was already as strong as majin Vegeta, and Goku would only get stronger.
9. As of now the angels since we know they are stronger than the GoD and we don't know how strong the attendants are. The angels also outnumber them.
10. Zeno already erased the entire multiverse before, and he can do it again.
11. Neither
12. Chi-chi
13. Zuno knows everything. We don't know how smart he is, but he should know everything Bulma is thinking and what she will do, which is too over powered.
14. Pass
15. Zamasu
16. pass
17. pass
18. pass
19. Hit easily
20. The team should win since I don't think UI gives Beerus a power boost since it seemed he used it a bit in the manga against the other GoD and it was stated Jiren was stronger than Belmod who looked to be one of the stronger GoD.

[sunsetshimmer]

1.) UI Goku Black (Scythe) vs. FP Jiren, GOD Toppo and Max Speed Dyspo (Deathmatch)
2.) Ultimate Gohan (TOP) vs. Rage Trunks (TOP) (No Hope Sword)
3.) SSBE Vegeta vs. SS3 Kefla (No time limit)
4.) SSB Vegito vs. SSB Gogeta (Both Post-TOP) (No time limit)
5.) Ranger 17 vs. Majin Android 21 (Cell absorbed)
6. Muten Roshi (TOP) vs. FP Garlic Jr.
7.) Tagoma (Ginyu) vs. SS2 Gohan (Buu arc)
8.) Majin Vegeta vs. Majin Goku
9.) Zen-Oh's Attendants vs. The Angels
10.) Zen-Oh vs. All of Dragonball (Except Tori-Bot)
11.) Tori-Bot vs The Dragonball Fandom
12.) Chi-chi vs. Yurin
13.) Zuno vs. Bulma (Battle of Brains)
14.) Zen-Oh vs. Dragon God Zalama
15.) Present Zamasu vs. Kibito Kai
16.) Omega Shenron vs. SSG Goku (BOG arc)
17.) SSJ Pan vs. SSJ Caulifla
18.) Super 17 vs. Super Baby Vegeta
19.) Mercenary Tao vs. Hit (Both are equal in power and can use time-skip)
20.) UI Beerus vs. UI Goku, FP Jiren and GOD Toppo

1. Team Jiren
2. Trunks
3. Kefla easily
4. If it's Gogeta from movies then he wins. Otherwise Vegito.
5. no idea
6. Roshi
7. Gohan wrecks
8. Majin Goku
9. no idea
10. Zeno can erase everyone but physically he might be weaker than Yamcha
11. no idea
12. ChiChi
13. no idea
14. Zeno
15. Zamasu
16. Omega one shots without absorbing any dragon balls
17. SSJ Caulifla
18. Super 17 wrecks
19. Hit
20. Team 2

[PFM18]

3.) SSBE Vegeta vs. SS3 Kefla (No time limit)

What makes you think this is a competition? I'm curious because as far as I can tell SSJ2 Kefla should wreck SSBE Vegeta let alone SSJ3 Kefla

[Nokra]

3.) SSBE Vegeta vs. SS3 Kefla (No time limit)

What makes you think this is a competition? I'm curious because as far as I can tell SSJ2 Kefla should wreck SSBE Vegeta let alone SSJ3 Kefla

Well vegeta did defeat GOD Toppo and he was most likely stronger than SS2 Kefla so SS3 Kefla vs SSBE Vegeta seems like it could go either way imo.

[PFM18]

3.) SSBE Vegeta vs. SS3 Kefla (No time limit)

What makes you think this is a competition? I'm curious because as far as I can tell SSJ2 Kefla should wreck SSBE Vegeta let alone SSJ3 Kefla

Well begets did defeat GOD Toppo and he was most likely stronger than SS2 Kefla so SS3 Kefla vs SSBE Vegeta seems like it could go either way imo.

Well we know that SSBE Vegeta~SSBKKx20 Goku and SSJ Kefla one shot SSBKK Goku and then went SSJ2 on top of that. Naturally that would make SSJ2 Kefla>SSBE Vegeta would it not?

[Nokra]

What makes you think this is a competition? I'm curious because as far as I can tell SSJ2 Kefla should wreck SSBE Vegeta let alone SSJ3 Kefla

Well begets did defeat GOD Toppo and he was most likely stronger than SS2 Kefla so SS3 Kefla vs SSBE Vegeta seems like it could go either way imo.

Well we know that SSBE Vegeta~SSBKKx20 Goku and SSJ Kefla one shot SSBKK Goku and then went SSJ2 on top of that. Naturally that would make SSJ2 Kefla>SSBE Vegeta would it not?

Kefla would most likely be stronger in raw power but I think Vegeta could possibly win due to experience/skill. Like I said, it could honestly go either way.

[PFM18]

Well begets did defeat GOD Toppo and he was most likely stronger than SS2 Kefla so SS3 Kefla vs SSBE Vegeta seems like it could go either way imo.

Well we know that SSBE Vegeta~SSBKKx20 Goku and SSJ Kefla one shot SSBKK Goku and then went SSJ2 on top of that. Naturally that would make SSJ2 Kefla>SSBE Vegeta would it not?

Kefla would most likely be stronger in raw power but I think Vegeta could possibly win due to experience/skill. Like I said, it could honestly go either way.

Ok but you need to address the fact that SSBE Vegeta was even with SSBKKx20, and Kefla one shot SSBKK in SSJ1 so SSJ2 Kefla should be double that and above SSBE Vegeta let alone SSJ3 Kefla right? Sure, an edge in power isn't everything but this gap being this large takes precedence over a gap in skill.(Obviously Vegeta is a more skilled fighter)

True, but during the Black arc Vegeta was questioning if they could get much stronger, which means their gains were probably stagnating a bit. But yes, final form Frieza and base Goku could very well have been above base Vegito. I definitely got that vibe when I first watched RoF, but it just seems like they keep trying to nerf them in future arcs. More so base Goku rather than final form Frieza.

Vegeta said in the Universe 6 arc during their 3 years training that they were reaching their limit. And the Goku Black arc explained that all this means is that Goku/Vegeta now need a catalyst for larger power gains now rather than just doing generic training. In Vegeta's case during the Black arc, it was stated to be his rage towards Black hurting his future son and killing his future wife. Then the ToP made the aforementioned limits and breaking through them a central plot point in the plot. Point is, by the time of the 3 years in the ROSAT they hit a glass ceiling and they just needed something to break that ceiling. During the training prior to RoF, we certainly don't get any indication that they had reached this ceiling yet, especially since this was different training than what they had done before. Hell, the opposite is implied when Beerus acknowledged their large improvements and Whis expresses being surprised at their growth rate during that time. In short, the training before RoF yielded much more than negligible gains.

Also, I don't get the idea that Base Goku was nerfed in future arcs.

[Zamasu55]

1.) UI Goku Black (Scythe) vs. FP Jiren, GOD Toppo and Max Speed Dyspo (Deathmatch)
2.) Ultimate Gohan (TOP) vs. Rage Trunks (TOP) (No Hope Sword)
3.) SSBE Vegeta vs. SS3 Kefla (No time limit)
4.) SSB Vegito vs. SSB Gogeta (Both Post-TOP) (No time limit)
5.) Ranger 17 vs. Majin Android 21 (Cell absorbed)
6. Muten Roshi (TOP) vs. FP Garlic Jr.
7.) Tagoma (Ginyu) vs. SS2 Gohan (Buu arc)
8.) Majin Vegeta vs. Majin Goku
9.) Zen-Oh's Attendants vs. The Angels
10.) Zen-Oh vs. All of Dragonball (Except Tori-Bot)
11.) Tori-Bot vs The Dragonball Fandom
12.) Chi-chi vs. Yurin
13.) Zuno vs. Bulma (Battle of Brains)
14.) Zen-Oh vs. Dragon God Zalama
15.) Present Zamasu vs. Kibito Kai
16.) Omega Shenron vs. SSG Goku (BOG arc)
17.) SSJ Pan vs. SSJ Caulifla
18.) Super 17 vs. Super Baby Vegeta
19.) Mercenary Tao vs. Hit (Both are equal in power and can use time-skip)
20.) UI Beerus vs. UI Goku, FP Jiren and GOD Toppo

- Team 2 easily. SsjB Goku (ToP) > SsjR Goku Black, thus UI Goku > UI Goku Black. Jiren wrecks him. Also, his clones wouldn't be a problem as Toppo can just destroy them (like Beerus was able to destroy ghosts).
- I don't think Gohan is even close to Merged Zamasu. Trunks wins even without Genkisword.
- Stalemate? Vegeta would last longer though.
- Vegito, but I'm sure Toei will retcon Gogeta's inferiority to him IF he does appear in the movie.
- Pass.
- Roshi seals him without a sweat.
- Gohan stomps, seriously. Ginyu-Tagoma was taken down with two hits by a much weaker Ssj Gohan.
- Goku has more transformations.
- It's impossible to say, but my guts tell me that Zeno's bodyguards are superior.
- Is this a joke?
- Why?
- Chi-Chi easily.
- Zuno.
- Zeno.
- Zamasu oneshots.
- ... Pass.
- Caulifla of course. Stronger in base.
- Is this a joke? 17 took down a stronger version of Ssj4 Goku, who was dominating Baby.
- Hit has killing techniques.
- Beerus after a ferocius battle.

[dragon boss z]

Vegeta said in the Universe 6 arc during their 3 years training that they were reaching their limit. And the Goku Black arc explained that all this means is that Goku/Vegeta now need a catalyst for larger power gains now rather than just doing generic training. In Vegeta's case during the Black arc, it was stated to be his rage towards Black hurting his future son and killing his future wife. Then the ToP made the aforementioned limits and breaking through them a central plot point in the plot. Point is, by the time of the 3 years in the ROSAT they hit a glass ceiling and they just needed something to break that ceiling. During the training prior to RoF, we certainly don't get any indication that they had reached this ceiling yet, especially since this was different training than what they had done before. Hell, the opposite is implied when Beerus acknowledged their large improvements and Whis expresses being surprised at their growth rate during that time. In short, the training before RoF yielded much more than negligible gains.

Ya, they definitely made gains, just not like how they did back in early Z.

Also, I don't get the idea that Base Goku was nerfed in future arcs.

Needing ssj against frost, having their base form be on par with U6 saiyans, being on par with future Trunks, having Krillin force Goku into ssj, having Buu with a few hours of training beat Goku, Goku being hurt by a bullet saying he got rusty, ect.