The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[supercat]

(Piccolo vs Vegeta) Both characters during the time they just got back from Namek.

SSBE Vegeta Kaioken x4 vs Whis
Android 17 vs SSJ Kefla
Golden Freeza(ToP) vs Hit(ToP)

Vegeta should have a slight edge against Piccolo.

I'm guessing Whis still has enough power to smash Vegeta.

Android 17 is likely comparable to current SSB Goku / SSB Vegeta, so he should at the very least be able to tangle with SSJ Kefla for a bit. He should be able to defeat Base Kefla with minimal effort though; this version of Kefla was implied to be weaker than SSB Goku but stronger than Red Goku (a level that Android 17 likely far eclipses).

Golden Frieza smashes Hit without Time Skip. With it, Hit embarrasses Frieza.

[PFM18]

End of GT Goku (post 100 year time skip) vs Goku (TOP Arc, no Ultra Instinct)

Both start in base form, the highest forms they can go to are SS4 and SSB Kaioken x2. Who wins?

End of GT Goku slaughters. We can't know for certain but based on what we have seen from any training, 100 years has to yield a downright gargantuan boost. If we low ball it and say Goku got a similar boost per year to what he got in the 7 years before the Buu arc, then he would have gotten atleast a hundred times stronger depending on how big of a gap you think it is between Cell Games Goku and Buu Arc Goku. I think it's around 40% so based on those gains End of GT Goku would have gotten 120x stronger if he stayed at the same rate each year for the 100 years.

DBS Goku can't compete without Ultra Instinct.

Agreed, though with the low balled GT Goku, I could see MUI Goku possibly winning, but any boost higher than that for GT Goku and he beats even Ultra Instinct.

Well with the lowballed estimate with Goku only getting a 120x boost over the 100 years, he would definitely get obliterated by Ultra Instinct. He could defeat SSB Goku's max power by the end of DBS, but probably not even SSBKKx20, let alone UI Omen or Completed UI.

If you use any of the more "high balled" estimates that would have a 50% average boost per year like how he did in the 15 years in between the Buu Arc and the beginning of GT, then GT Goku beats mastered UI Goku in his base form with very little difficulty.

It is just a matter of whether you think he had an average boost similar to the time frame of Cell Arc->Buu Arc or the time frame of Buu Arc->BoGT

[Champa The Destroyer]

End of GT Goku slaughters. We can't know for certain but based on what we have seen from any training, 100 years has to yield a downright gargantuan boost. If we low ball it and say Goku got a similar boost per year to what he got in the 7 years before the Buu arc, then he would have gotten atleast a hundred times stronger depending on how big of a gap you think it is between Cell Games Goku and Buu Arc Goku. I think it's around 40% so based on those gains End of GT Goku would have gotten 120x stronger if he stayed at the same rate each year for the 100 years.

DBS Goku can't compete without Ultra Instinct.

Agreed, though with the low balled GT Goku, I could see MUI Goku possibly winning, but any boost higher than that for GT Goku and he beats even Ultra Instinct.

Well with the lowballed estimate with Goku only getting a 120x boost over the 100 years, he would definitely get obliterated by Ultra Instinct. He could defeat SSB Goku's max power by the end of DBS, but probably not even SSBKKx20, let alone UI Omen or Completed UI.

If you use any of the more "high balled" estimates that would have a 50% average boost per year like how he did in the 15 years in between the Buu Arc and the beginning of GT, then GT Goku beats mastered UI Goku in his base form with very little difficulty.

It is just a matter of whether you think he had an average boost similar to the time frame of Cell Arc->Buu Arc or the time frame of Buu Arc->BoGT

Agreed. Does him fusing with the Dragon Balls or whatever he did change his power at all? I doubt it, since the Dragon Balls are as strong as their creator, and Sense is nothing compared to even the Ginyu Force.




MUI Vegito (Boo Arc, no time limit on the fusion or MUI) vs Goku Black (Scythe)

[theherodjl]

Let's apply MUI to various Saiyans throughout the series.

Early DB MUI Kid Goku vs Pure Boo.
MUI Raditz vs Boo arc Vegetto using Kaio-ken x6.
MUI Nappa vs Boo arc Vegetto using Kaio-ken x20.
Saiyan arc MUI Vegeta vs Boo arc SSJ2 Vegetto.
MUI Turles vs RoF SSJ2 Goku.
M8 MUI Broly(no LSSJ) vs ToP SSJB Goku with Kaio-ken x10.
EoB MUI Bardock vs Anime Super Vegetto.
BoZ MUI Gohan(angry) vs MUI Raditz.
MUI Future Kid Trunks vs RoF SSJ2 Vegeta.
MUI Goten & Trunks vs Jiren.

[Champa The Destroyer]

Let's apply MUI to various Saiyans throughout the series.

Early DB MUI Kid Goku vs Pure Boo.
MUI Raditz vs Boo arc Vegetto using Kaio-ken x6.
MUI Nappa vs Boo arc Vegetto using Kaio-ken x20.
Saiyan arc MUI Vegeta vs Boo arc SSJ2 Vegetto.
MUI Turles vs RoF SSJ2 Goku.
M8 MUI Broly(no LSSJ) vs ToP SSJB Goku with Kaio-ken x10.
EoB MUI Bardock vs Anime Super Vegetto.
BoZ MUI Gohan(angry) vs MUI Raditz.
MUI Future Kid Trunks vs RoF SSJ2 Vegeta.
MUI Goten & Trunks vs Jiren.

I have MUI as millions of times stronger than base, but I just can't see Goku that young having the power to completely wipe out Boo.
Because of the findings almost everything I give it to Raditz.
Same as above
Just barely Vegeta, similar situation to the two above, but he's smarter and more resilient than Raditz and Nappa combined.
Goku stomps.
Goku stomps.
Bardock should win.
Raditz, he may have less raw power but he's able to access his power far more easily.
Vegeta stomps.
Jiren murders.




Baby Goku and Kid Vegeta (both from Bardock the Father of Goku) somehow fuse and get MUI to become MUI toddler Vegito. Who's the strongest character he can beat?

[PFM18]

Let's apply MUI to various Saiyans throughout the series.

Early DB MUI Kid Goku vs Pure Boo.
MUI Raditz vs Boo arc Vegetto using Kaio-ken x6.
MUI Nappa vs Boo arc Vegetto using Kaio-ken x20.
Saiyan arc MUI Vegeta vs Boo arc SSJ2 Vegetto.
MUI Turles vs RoF SSJ2 Goku.
M8 MUI Broly(no LSSJ) vs ToP SSJB Goku with Kaio-ken x10.
EoB MUI Bardock vs Anime Super Vegetto.
BoZ MUI Gohan(angry) vs MUI Raditz.
MUI Future Kid Trunks vs RoF SSJ2 Vegeta.
MUI Goten & Trunks vs Jiren.

I have MUI as millions of times stronger than base, but I just can't see Goku that young having the power to completely wipe out Boo.
Because of the findings almost everything I give it to Raditz.
Same as above
Just barely Vegeta, similar situation to the two above, but he's smarter and more resilient than Raditz and Nappa combined.
Goku stomps.
Goku stomps.
Bardock should win.
Raditz, he may have less raw power but he's able to access his power far more easily.
Vegeta stomps.
Jiren murders.




Baby Goku and Kid Vegeta (both from Bardock the Father of Goku) somehow fuse and get MUI to become MUI toddler Vegito. Who's the strongest character he can beat?

Who's the strongest that a hypothetical toddler Vegetto with the Completed Ultra Instinct form could beat? I have absolutely no idea whatsoever.

[theherodjl]

Baby Goku and Kid Vegeta (both from Bardock the Father of Goku) somehow fuse and get MUI to become MUI toddler Vegito. Who's the strongest character he can beat?

Baby Goku's contribution to the fusion is quite small so at most, Toddler Vegetto is a few times stronger than Kid Vegeta. Since Vegeta said that he's was somewhat stronger than his father even as a child then that means Toddler Vegetto is in the power level range of 36,000-ish. My multiplier for MUI is about 2,600,000,000x greater than a Saiyan who hasn't undergone the SSJG ritual, and that multiplied by 36,000 is 93.6 trillion. I'd say that MUI Toddler Vegetto is a little bit stronger than ToP SSJ Goku, but below SSJ2 by my numbers.

[PFM18]

2,600,000,000x greater than a Saiyan who hasn't undergone the SSJG ritual,

What does this distinction mean to you? Why does it matter if they have not gone through the ritual?

[Champa The Destroyer]

Omega Shenron (created from the Super Dragon Balls instead of the standard Dragon Balls) runs a gauntlet:

SSB Kaioken x20 Goku
SSBE Vegeta
UIO Goku (3rd time)
Full Power Jiren
Full Power Beerus
Limit Broken Jiren
MUI Goku
All Gods of Destruction at the same time
Whis and Vados
All Angels at the same time
The Grand Priest
Zeno

[ZombieVito]

(Piccolo vs Vegeta) Both characters during the time they just got back from Namek.

SSBE Vegeta Kaioken x4 vs Whis
Android 17 vs SSJ Kefla
Golden Freeza(ToP) vs Hit(ToP)

Vegeta is stronger but I can see Piccolo taking this by skill.

Vegeta gets destroyed unless he gets another rage boost like in E126.

Kefla murders him in seconds. She was conpared to Goku's Genkidama.

Freeza. Hit has always been inferior to Blue.

New fights:

Vegeta vs Future Trunks. Both from episode 67.
Ultimate Gohan (ToP arc) vs SSI Future Trunks (E67).
17 (ToP arc) vs Pirina. 17 doesn't have infinite stamina.
Frost (ToP arc) vs SS Vegeta (Champa arc).
SS Bersek Kale vs SS3 Goku (ToP arc). No stamina issues for both.

[Zamasu55]

Omega Shenron (created from the Super Dragon Balls instead of the standard Dragon Balls) runs a gauntlet:

SSB Kaioken x20 Goku
SSBE Vegeta
UIO Goku (3rd time)
Full Power Jiren
Full Power Beerus
Limit Broken Jiren
MUI Goku
All Gods of Destruction at the same time
Whis and Vados
All Angels at the same time
The Grand Priest
Zeno

Probably stops at SsjBE Vegeta.

[Zamasu55]

(Piccolo vs Vegeta) Both characters during the time they just got back from Namek.

SSBE Vegeta Kaioken x4 vs Whis
Android 17 vs SSJ Kefla
Golden Freeza(ToP) vs Hit(ToP)

Vegeta is stronger but I can see Piccolo taking this by skill.

Vegeta gets destroyed unless he gets another rage boost like in E126.

Kefla murders him in seconds. She was conpared to Goku's Genkidama.

Freeza. Hit has always been inferior to Blue.

New fights:

Vegeta vs Future Trunks. Both from episode 67.
Ultimate Gohan (ToP arc) vs SSI Future Trunks (E67).
17 (ToP arc) vs Pirina. 17 doesn't have infinite stamina.
Frost (ToP arc) vs SS Vegeta (Champa arc).
SS Bersek Kale vs SS3 Goku (ToP arc). No stamina issues for both.

- Both have good chances of winning. I really can't say who tho.
- Ultimate Gohan is at least SsjG tier in the ToP (as ridiculous as it sounds), while Ssj Rage Trunks is probably beyond Blue tier. Pretty sure that settles it. Gohan gets wrecked.
- Saonel and Pirina were weaker than Ultimate Gohan. The latter did far worse than 17 did against Toppo. Pretty sure the android wins fairly easily, no matter the stamina.
- Vegeta still remains stronger, even if Frost got better... by escaping cops. Lol. Super logic.
- Kale was doing pretty good against SsjG Goku who, even if tired, is far stronger than Ssj3. Kale murders.

[PFM18]

Vegeta vs Future Trunks. Both from episode 67.
Ultimate Gohan (ToP arc) vs SSI Future Trunks (E67).
17 (ToP arc) vs Pirina. 17 doesn't have infinite stamina.
Frost (ToP arc) vs SS Vegeta (Champa arc).
SS Bersek Kale vs SS3 Goku (ToP arc). No stamina issues for both.

Trunks caught up but he still wasn't as strong as his father. Vegeta overpowered SSJ Rose Black and Trunks never did the same.
I'd say Future Trunks has the edge here. Not a big one, both are significantly weaker than SSB Goku/Vegeta in the ToP.
17 dominates. Pirina lost to Ultimate Gohan who is inferior to 17.
Frost may have gotten stronger, but it seemed to be only marginally so. Vegeta would still dominate since the gap between them was enormous.
This is a pretty close one. It depends if it is the controlled, stronger version of Berserk Kale or not.

[Champa The Destroyer]

Omega Shenron (created from the Super Dragon Balls instead of the standard Dragon Balls) runs a gauntlet:

SSB Kaioken x20 Goku
SSBE Vegeta
UIO Goku (3rd time)
Full Power Jiren
Full Power Beerus
Limit Broken Jiren
MUI Goku
All Gods of Destruction at the same time
Whis and Vados
All Angels at the same time
The Grand Priest
Zeno

Probably stops at SsjBE Vegeta.

If the Super Dragon Balls can grant ANY wish, shouldn't they at least be like God of Destruction level though?



Goku Black (Episode 64, after getting angry) and Goku (Episode 64) each go into the ROSAT for 10 days/10 years, both of them having Vegeta (Episode 64) as a training partner. Who wins? Furthermore, who is the strongest character they can beat?

Personally, the insane gains Goku Black made in such a short time causes me to believe he could win, assuming neither of them attain Ultra Instinct, and after 10 years, I think the strongest character they could beat by themself is Limit Broken Jiren, but I want other opinions on this.

[theherodjl]

2,600,000,000x greater than a Saiyan who hasn't undergone the SSJG ritual,

What does this distinction mean to you? Why does it matter if they have not gone through the ritual?

It relies on Goku's pre-ritual power vs his MUI power. I have the power-up for SSJG to be 13,000,000x stronger than Boo arc Goku's base form, SSJB to be 26,000,000x stronger than Boo arc Goku's base(x2 of SSJG), and MUI to be 2,600,000,000x stronger than Boo arc Goku's base(x100 of SSjB). Admittedly, it may not work for the other Saiyans of U7, and it most definitely would not work for U6 Saiyans since their power is on a completely different tier than Boo arc Base Saiyans. However, it ought to work for most characters prior to DBS.

[supercat]

New fights:

Vegeta vs Future Trunks. Both from episode 67.
Ultimate Gohan (ToP arc) vs SSI Future Trunks (E67).
17 (ToP arc) vs Pirina. 17 doesn't have infinite stamina.
Frost (ToP arc) vs SS Vegeta (Champa arc).
SS Bersek Kale vs SS3 Goku (ToP arc). No stamina issues for both.

Android 17 wins effortlessly. Saonel and Pirina merely kept up with Ultimate Gohan, someone who by that point who was likely a good amount weaker than Android 17. Ultimate Gohan tried kicking a distracted Toppo (who was busy facing Android 17) from behind but failed; Toppo grabbed Gohan's kick and tossed him aside like he was some common fodder. Not long after, Android 17 rushed Toppo head-on and was able to tangle with him in a hand to hand scuffle. He was even able to push Toppo back during this brief hand to hand clash. Then there's Android 17 also holding his own during his beam struggle with Toppo while Gohan's Kamehameha left Toppo completely unfazed. Android 17's blast took so much of Toppo's effort even Frieza mentioned Toppo was unable to fight back. If Android 17 was so weak as some seem to believe, Toppo could have easily used one hand to fend off his blast while using the other to guard against Frieza. Either that, or he could have jumped out of the way and let Android 17's blast hit Frieza. Clearly, these weren't possibilities as Android 17 was still powerful enough for Toppo to have to work for it. I won't even go into the Aniraza feat, since pushing back and blitzing through an attack that was on the verge of crushing actual Super Saiyan Blues sort of speaks for itself.

Android 17 has a good amount of feats strongly suggesting that he is far stronger than Red Goku and is likely very close to ToP SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta while Saonel and Pirina were probably at best stronger than Red Goku. A suppressed Jiren used one finger to fend off Red Goku, but Android 17 actually clashed fists with Jiren (who at the time was using far more strength than he was against Red Goku) and even managed to tangle with him for a bit. Then there's Android 17 momentarily stopping Jiren's blast (shortly before he went down), resulting in Jiren yelling and exerting himself more to push it through; all good implications that Android 17 is at least comparable to the SSB Goku that initially challenged Jiren.

Vegeta still likely has enough strength to overcome any amount of progress Frost may have made.

[jeffbr92]

How strong would Gotenks get if he could train a whole day/year in the RoSaT?

[Champa The Destroyer]

How strong would Gotenks get if he could train a whole day/year in the RoSaT?

Wouldn't Goten and Trunks training without fusing be more effective since they are both getting stringer individually? If they train without fusing, I would put Gotenks at borderline Boohan. If they train while fused, I would say between Bootenks and Boohan, but closer to Bootenks.

Goku Black (Episode 64, after getting angry) and Goku (Episode 64) each go into the ROSAT for 10 days/10 years, both of them having Vegeta (Episode 64) as a training partner. Who wins? Furthermore, who is the strongest character they can beat?

Personally, the insane gains Goku Black made in such a short time causes me to believe he could win, assuming neither of them attain Ultra Instinct, and after 10 years, I think the strongest character they could beat by themself is Limit Broken Jiren, but I want other opinions on this.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

How strong would Gotenks get if he could train a whole day/year in the RoSaT?

Given how Gotenks surpassed his SSJ form in Base, unlocked two new transformations and created a few new techniques in twoo weeks, within a year he probably would be as strong as his SSJ3 self in Base. He could probably go way higher, but that's the best he can draw from Rosat training.

[sunsetshimmer]

Omega Shenron (created from the Super Dragon Balls instead of the standard Dragon Balls) runs a gauntlet:

SSB Kaioken x20 Goku
SSBE Vegeta
UIO Goku (3rd time)
Full Power Jiren
Full Power Beerus
Limit Broken Jiren
MUI Goku
All Gods of Destruction at the same time
Whis and Vados
All Angels at the same time
The Grand Priest
Zeno

Omega Shenron? That's too much.
Even Haze Shenron would probably destroy all of them if he was made from Super Dragon Balls.
They are like milions times bigger than regular dragon balls and so would hold milions times more negative energy making all dragons millions times stronger.

If Omega Shenron was made from such balls then all of those characters combined wouldn't beat him considering how strong he was just from those small balls.