Freeza coming to Earth. What was he thinking?

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Fox666
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Re: Freeza coming to Earth. What was he thinking?

Postby Fox666 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:40 pm

Huh, I think the simpliest explanation was that Freeza was ganging up with his father to defeat Goku.

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Re: Freeza coming to Earth. What was he thinking?

Postby batistabus » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:05 am

In reality, though, was he actually powered up? To me, he seemed to be even weaker as a cyborg. And I'm still not sure as to whether Cold was stronger than him or not, but I'd like to think that he wasn't.

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Re: Freeza coming to Earth. What was he thinking?

Postby Piccolo Daimao » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:44 am

batistabus wrote:In reality, though, was he actually powered up? To me, he seemed to be even weaker as a cyborg. And I'm still not sure as to whether Cold was stronger than him or not, but I'd like to think that he wasn't.


He stated it himself.

Strength Checker wrote:Chapter: 329 (DBZ 135), P14.1
Cold: “A small planet…Wouldn’t it be better if you just wiped it out in one shot?”
Freeza: “That wouldn’t satisfy me…I want to make him well acquainted with my powered-up self…”

Chapter: 330 (DBZ 136), P13.3-4
King Cold: “The Earthlings don’t matter; the Super Saiyan alone we absolutely must exterminate, by any means. The one who holds the greatest power in the universe must without a doubt be our clan”
Freeza: “We can definitely defeat him if we go at him together, Papa. And I’ve powered up too, so I think I can probably go alone.”

Chapter: 331 (DBZ 137), P3.5
Freeza: “It’s an honor that my name should be known on this planet so far removed from the rest of the galaxy…However, unfortunately you don’t seem to know that I have the greatest power in the universe…”


To you, he probably only seemed weaker as a cyborg because of his death by Trunks. And no, Cold was definitely weaker than Freeza, because Freeza flat-out says that he's the strongest in the universe right in front of him and Cold seems to be more concerned about the superiority of their clan than specifically himself.

Judging by your other statements, it doesn't look as if you're particularly familiar with the manga. If not, Herms has translated a lot of the strength-related quotes from the original Japanese manga here: http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopi ... =7&t=15488
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Re: Freeza coming to Earth. What was he thinking?

Postby Fox666 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:01 pm

The Daizenshuu also states this:

Though he's the head of the strongest family in the universe, he is somewhat inferior to Freeza.

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Re: Freeza coming to Earth. What was he thinking?

Postby batistabus » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:59 pm

Ah, I see. I was confused because recently I introduced the series to my friend in the form of Kai, and he wanted to watch the English version. I assumed what they were saying was accurate to the Japanese version, but maybe I was just misunderstanding the dialogue.

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Re: Freeza coming to Earth. What was he thinking?

Postby Fox666 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:13 pm

The anime filler (not sure about Kai) added some dialogue about there being a Ki even greater than that of Freeza... but that's against what the manga imply.

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Re: Freeza coming to Earth. What was he thinking?

Postby Dabooyaka » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:50 am

He was just being a damn idiot. Just like Semi-Cell against Super Vegeta, and Perfect Cell against Super Saiyan 2 Gohan.

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Re: Freeza coming to Earth. What was he thinking?

Postby Hades » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:13 pm

Freeza was always the arrogant type (as most evil overlords are), and to be fair, he did not expect a certain time traveller to interfere with his plans for revenge.
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Re: Freeza coming to Earth. What was he thinking?

Postby Piccolo Daimao » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:07 pm

Dabooyaka wrote:He was just being a damn idiot. Just like Semi-Cell against Super Vegeta, and Perfect Cell against Super Saiyan 2 Gohan.


He wasn't, though. We've already explained in this thread the reasons for him going to Earth. He was even with SS Goku before, had now gotten stronger and had his daddy behind him in case he couldn't kill Goku alone. It's just that he didn't count on another Super Saiyan (arguably even stronger than SS Goku on Namek) from the future turning up.
Holden Caulfield in The Catcher in the Rye wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.

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Re: Freeza coming to Earth. What was he thinking?

Postby Saiga » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:02 pm

Piccolo Daimao wrote:
Dabooyaka wrote:He was just being a damn idiot. Just like Semi-Cell against Super Vegeta, and Perfect Cell against Super Saiyan 2 Gohan.


He wasn't, though. We've already explained in this thread the reasons for him going to Earth. He was even with SS Goku before, had now gotten stronger and had his daddy behind him in case he couldn't kill Goku alone. It's just that he didn't count on another Super Saiyan (arguably even stronger than SS Goku on Namek) from the future turning up.


The problem is, in Trunks' timeline Goku IT'd there and defeated the both of them anyway. So yes, he was being an idiot.
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Re: Freeza coming to Earth. What was he thinking?

Postby Piccolo Daimao » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:16 pm

Saiga wrote:
Piccolo Daimao wrote:
Dabooyaka wrote:He was just being a damn idiot. Just like Semi-Cell against Super Vegeta, and Perfect Cell against Super Saiyan 2 Gohan.


He wasn't, though. We've already explained in this thread the reasons for him going to Earth. He was even with SS Goku before, had now gotten stronger and had his daddy behind him in case he couldn't kill Goku alone. It's just that he didn't count on another Super Saiyan (arguably even stronger than SS Goku on Namek) from the future turning up.


The problem is, in Trunks' timeline Goku IT'd there and defeated the both of them anyway. So yes, he was being an idiot.


But Gokuu had become stronger since his year on Yardrat.
Holden Caulfield in The Catcher in the Rye wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.

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Re: Freeza coming to Earth. What was he thinking?

Postby Mystic Gohan » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:38 pm

Piccolo Daimao wrote:
Dabooyaka wrote:He was just being a damn idiot. Just like Semi-Cell against Super Vegeta, and Perfect Cell against Super Saiyan 2 Gohan.


He wasn't, though. We've already explained in this thread the reasons for him going to Earth. He was even with SS Goku before, had now gotten stronger and had his daddy behind him in case he couldn't kill Goku alone. It's just that he didn't count on another Super Saiyan (arguably even stronger than SS Goku on Namek) from the future turning up.

Do you also believe like me that the daiz number for frieza and goku is bs at 120 and 150 respectively. Thats too far for an even fight like theres?

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Re: Freeza coming to Earth. What was he thinking?

Postby CaBrPi » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:58 pm

Mystic Gohan wrote:
Piccolo Daimao wrote:
Dabooyaka wrote:He was just being a damn idiot. Just like Semi-Cell against Super Vegeta, and Perfect Cell against Super Saiyan 2 Gohan.


He wasn't, though. We've already explained in this thread the reasons for him going to Earth. He was even with SS Goku before, had now gotten stronger and had his daddy behind him in case he couldn't kill Goku alone. It's just that he didn't count on another Super Saiyan (arguably even stronger than SS Goku on Namek) from the future turning up.

Do you also believe like me that the daiz number for Freeza and goku is bs at 120 and 150 respectively. Thats too far for an even fight like theres?

It was hardly "even" in the manga. The anime really drew the fight out and made Freeza much more powerful than he should've been.

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Re: Freeza coming to Earth. What was he thinking?

Postby Saiga » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:51 pm

Piccolo Daimao wrote:But Gokuu had become stronger since his year on Yardrat.


I don't believe he would have gotten that much stronger. I think that Goku on Namek would be more than enough for Mecha Freeza, we're not really given much reason to believe otherwise.
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That's kind of the Dragon Ball fan mentality. If you want something, you want the most extreme possibility. "What you want Piccolo to be useful? So you won't be satisfied til he's powering up and punting villains into the sun, and better than Goku and Vegeta?" There's just no middle ground or subtlety. It's just one big extreme or the other.

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Re: Freeza coming to Earth. What was he thinking?

Postby Fox666 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:12 pm

Mystic Gohan wrote:Do you also believe like me that the daiz number for Freeza and goku is bs at 120 and 150 respectively. Thats too far for an even fight like theres?
There isn't much substance for that kind of logic. Sometimes a character can fight evenly against someone with twice his someone, sometimes he can instantly defeat someone slight weaker than himself. And it's not because manga is being inconsistent, it's because it takes more an artistic side than it works with "formulas" like fans constantly look at.

Saiga wrote:I don't believe he would have gotten that much stronger. I think that Goku on Namek would be more than enough for Mecha Freeza, we're not really given much reason to believe otherwise.
I suppose that's acceptable, the way characters talk about Goku makes it sound like a Super Saiyan is just that great.

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Re: Freeza coming to Earth. What was he thinking?

Postby Perfect » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:21 am

I'd like to point out that Goku's injuries as well as Freeza's could have both played a role in why the match was so even.
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Re: Freeza coming to Earth. What was he thinking?

Postby Fox666 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:29 am

I always tought of something like that. But like CaBrPi pointed out, the fight is very short in the manga.

The only significant accomplishment of Freeza in the fight was to use his barrier to move out of the Kamehameha and hit Goku, but that was more about strategy than strength, so he could win time and make his wish to Porunga.

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Re: Freeza coming to Earth. What was he thinking?

Postby Piccolo Daimao » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:55 pm

Mystic Gohan wrote:Do you also believe like me that the daiz number for Freeza and goku is bs at 120 and 150 respectively. Thats too far for an even fight like theres?


No, I don't think it's bullshit, because nothing contradicts it. And who says it's too far for an even fight like theirs? There aren't any set percentage rules or whatever for how evenly someone can fight another. That's entirely fan opinion.

Saiga wrote:
Piccolo Daimao wrote:But Gokuu had become stronger since his year on Yardrat.


I don't believe he would have gotten that much stronger. I think that Goku on Namek would be more than enough for Mecha Freeza, we're not really given much reason to believe otherwise.


I believe that Trunks was slightly stronger than SS Goku on Namek (Mecha Freeza may or may not have been at full power when he was killed by Trunks [he didn't bulk up, and even though you could argue that his cybernetic enhancements enabled him to use full power without bulking up, nothing really suggests that], and Trunks could've caught him off-guard), and that SS Goku was somewhat stronger than him. That would've been enough of a difference for Gokuu to finish off Mecha Freeza, who I think was around SS Goku on Namek and probably could've defeated SS Goku on Namek with the help of King Cold.

I do think that Gokuu mainly focused on mastering SS and learning teleportation, but I don't think it's a bad assumption to make that he still did a bit of training and increased his power, if only by a little. Maybe he even did some meditation in his spaceship on his return to Earth.
Holden Caulfield in The Catcher in the Rye wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.


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