Goku's Saiyan Pride

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
vegetaslegacy15
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 187
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:32 pm
Location: Brockton, MA, USA

Goku's Saiyan Pride

Post by vegetaslegacy15 » Thu May 10, 2012 3:44 pm

Do you guys think that the reason why Goku started making stupid decisions in the later arcs(such as Cell arc and Buu arc) is because of him(Goku) embracing his Saiyan heritage?
Horgus wrote:NSSJ2O... Nitrogen Sulfur Shounen Jump Dioxide? :?
digireign wrote:I vote to call it "Super Cyan."
-zach

User avatar
ChahikoDBZ
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 447
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:20 pm
Location: Florida, U.S.

Re: Goku's saiyan pride.

Post by ChahikoDBZ » Thu May 10, 2012 3:51 pm

I suppose it all depends on what you mean by "stupid decisions".
(Fanfiction link coming soon.)

User avatar
vegetaslegacy15
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 187
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:32 pm
Location: Brockton, MA, USA

Re: Goku's saiyan pride.

Post by vegetaslegacy15 » Thu May 10, 2012 4:11 pm

Well such as giving Cell a senzu bean, not killing the androids three years before they showed, not killing Majin Buu when he had a chance, leaving with Uub, not using SSJ3 against majin Vegeta.
Horgus wrote:NSSJ2O... Nitrogen Sulfur Shounen Jump Dioxide? :?
digireign wrote:I vote to call it "Super Cyan."
-zach

User avatar
hleV
Banned
Posts: 3325
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:15 pm
Location: Lithuania

Re: Goku's saiyan pride.

Post by hleV » Thu May 10, 2012 4:48 pm

His "stupid" decisions don't have anything to do with pride.

User avatar
Zephyr
I Live Here
Posts: 4019
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:20 pm

Re: Goku's saiyan pride.

Post by Zephyr » Thu May 10, 2012 5:30 pm

He made stupid decisions well before that. He gave Piccolo a senzu and let Vegeta go so he could fight them again.

User avatar
OzzyApu
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 175
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:05 am
Location: Seattle, US

Re: Goku's saiyan pride.

Post by OzzyApu » Thu May 10, 2012 6:10 pm

Zephyr wrote:He made stupid decisions well before that. He gave Piccolo a senzu...
I wouldn't call that a stupid decision. Piccolo was critically injured and his death meant Kami's death which meant no more Dragon Balls.

User avatar
the_abberration
Regular
Posts: 630
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:22 pm
Location: Stuck On Earth

Re: Goku's saiyan pride.

Post by the_abberration » Thu May 10, 2012 6:16 pm

vegetaslegacy15 wrote:Well such as giving Cell a senzu bean, not killing the androids three years before they showed, not killing Majin Buu when he had a chance, leaving with Uub, not using SSJ3 against majin Vegeta.
Those decisions were made more out of Goku's misguided sense of fair play, and not thinking the consequences through, as opposed to his pride.

He gave Cell the senzu because he was confident that Gohan could defeat him, and he wanted Cell to be at his peak when that happened. Piccolo had to point out Gohan wasn't a fighter like him etc, before he realized that error.

With the androids, he felt it was unfair to kill Dr. Gero before committing the act, in addition to wanting to fight the androids. Although Goku could have busted into his lab, destroyed it, and threaten to kill him if he even thought about making another android.

Majin Buu was his way of passing the torch to a new champion, because he wouldn't always be there. Since he was dead and only had a day on Earth, it sort of made sense. However, he should have defeated Buu first and then passed the torch before he left.

Leaving with Uub was the logical end to Goku's journey. He began as a student and ended as a teacher/mentor. In a way, he was Roshi and Uub was him. Sucks for his family, but Chi Chi knew he was a martial artist when she married him, and knew what she was getting into.

With Majin Vegeta, Goku felt it would have hurt Vegeta's pride if he revealed that he had more power. Also back to the fair play, he wanted to keep the fight on equal footing. Plus I don't think Goku knew that fight would fuel Majin Buu's release so quickly.
1 Corinthians 13: When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew up, I put away childish things. Except the anime. Never the anime.

"Look. I'm not allowed to hold you, but I'm sworn to protect you"-Sergeant Hatred

The Lineup: Danger Mouse

User avatar
Insertclevername
I Live Here
Posts: 3208
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:27 pm
Location: Eastern Zone 439

Re: Goku's saiyan pride.

Post by Insertclevername » Thu May 10, 2012 6:23 pm

the_abberration wrote: With Majin Vegeta, Goku felt it would have hurt Vegeta's pride if he revealed that he had more power. Also back to the fair play, he wanted to keep the fight on equal footing. Plus I don't think Goku knew that fight would fuel Majin Buu's release so quickly.
Also if Goku had sent SSJ3, the energy he would've output would have been way more that enough to release Boo. I mean if a brief battle of two SSJ2's did it so quickly, just a second of SSJ3 would do the same, if not more.
Cipher wrote:Also, you can seriously like whatever and still get laid. That's a revelation that'll hit you at some point.

User avatar
TheDevilsCorpse
Moderator
Posts: 11378
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:34 am
Contact:

Re: Goku's saiyan pride.

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Thu May 10, 2012 6:56 pm

Insertclevername wrote:Also if Goku had sent SSJ3, the energy he would've output would have been way more that enough to release Boo. I mean if a brief battle of two SSJ2's did it so quickly, just a second of SSJ3 would do the same, if not more.
Yeeeah...I doubt it. Buu's ball gained practically zero energy during the first few one-sided fights (Vegeta vs. Pui Pui, Goku vs. Yakon) because there wasn't a whole lot of physical damage. SS3 Goku could have beat the living hell out of Vegeta without wasting much time or effort, meaning the energy Buu got would be nil...or close to it.
Direct translations of the Korean DB Online timeline and guidebook.
My personal "canon" and BP list. (Coming Soon)

User avatar
Saiga
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8311
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:36 pm
Location: Space Australia

Re: Goku's saiyan pride.

Post by Saiga » Thu May 10, 2012 6:56 pm

the_abberration wrote:
Leaving with Uub was the logical end to Goku's journey. He began as a student and ended as a teacher/mentor. In a way, he was Roshi and Uub was him. Sucks for his family, but Chi Chi knew he was a martial artist when she married him, and knew what she was getting into.
Doesn't he promise to visit them anyway? I mean really with IT he could spend as much time with them as they wanted and still be able to train Uub plenty.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!

User avatar
TheDevilsCorpse
Moderator
Posts: 11378
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:34 am
Contact:

Re: Goku's saiyan pride.

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Thu May 10, 2012 7:01 pm

Saiga wrote:Doesn't he promise to visit them anyway? I mean really with IT he could spend as much time with them as they wanted and still be able to train Uub plenty.
Yeah, he could easily treat it as 9-5 job. Wake up in the morning, teleport to Uub, kick the shit out of each other for hours, teleport home to Chi Chi for dinner, rinse and repeat.
Direct translations of the Korean DB Online timeline and guidebook.
My personal "canon" and BP list. (Coming Soon)

User avatar
dprez
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1381
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:52 pm

Re: Goku's saiyan pride.

Post by dprez » Thu May 10, 2012 7:03 pm

Teleport to Uub? How lonely he would be...I'd think Goku would at least take Uub with him when he visits his family. :lol:

User avatar
TheDevilsCorpse
Moderator
Posts: 11378
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:34 am
Contact:

Re: Goku's saiyan pride.

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Thu May 10, 2012 7:33 pm

dprez wrote:Teleport to Uub? How lonely he would be...I'd think Goku would at least take Uub with him when he visits his family. :lol:
I'm just trying to make things easier, as weaker beings have ki signatures that are harder to locate and teleport to with Shunkan-ido, so it'd be "harder" to get back without Uub there. lol
Direct translations of the Korean DB Online timeline and guidebook.
My personal "canon" and BP list. (Coming Soon)

User avatar
ChahikoDBZ
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 447
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:20 pm
Location: Florida, U.S.

Re: Goku's saiyan pride.

Post by ChahikoDBZ » Thu May 10, 2012 8:14 pm

vegetaslegacy15 wrote:Well such as giving Cell a senzu bean, not killing the androids three years before they showed, not killing Majin Buu when he had a chance, leaving with Uub, not using SSJ3 against majin Vegeta.
Well he didn't use Super Saiyan 3 against Majin Vegeta because it would have exhausted his body and made him have to return to Other World.
The rest I would say had to do with his Saiyan heritage. His love for fighting, etc. Remember the world is a pretty big place. It would have been difficult to find the Androids and destroy them.
I believe he gave Perfect Cell a senzu bean because he wanted the Cell Games to be fair for both players.
He said in the Funimation dub that he probably could have defeated Majin Boo as a Super Saiyan 3 if he had wanted to. But he wanted to give Goten and Trunks (The younger generation) a shot at defeating him.
(Fanfiction link coming soon.)

User avatar
DBZGTKOSDH
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 12401
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Goku's saiyan pride.

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri May 11, 2012 7:44 am

the_abberration wrote:Chi Chi knew he was a martial artist when she married him, and knew what she was getting into.
Well, martial artists normally don't do such things though...
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

Nikkolas
Regular
Posts: 506
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:00 pm

Re: Goku's saiyan pride.

Post by Nikkolas » Fri May 11, 2012 7:56 am

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
the_abberration wrote:Chi Chi knew he was a martial artist when she married him, and knew what she was getting into.
Well, martial artists normally don't do such things though...
Indeed. Even Vegeta probably paid more attention to his son than Goku did for his.

Although Chi-Chi really should have known what she was in for given how Goku and her got married. Goku does not exactly scream "commitment" in the romantic sense.

User avatar
Saiga
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8311
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:36 pm
Location: Space Australia

Re: Goku's saiyan pride.

Post by Saiga » Fri May 11, 2012 7:59 am

Nikkolas wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
the_abberration wrote:Chi Chi knew he was a martial artist when she married him, and knew what she was getting into.
Well, martial artists normally don't do such things though...
Indeed. Even Vegeta probably paid more attention to his son than Goku did for his.
I'm calling bullshit on that. Apart from being dead and separated in the early Namek arc, Goku's been shown spending most of his time with Gohan.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!

User avatar
Gonstead
I Live Here
Posts: 3500
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:33 am
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Re: Goku's saiyan pride.

Post by Gonstead » Fri May 11, 2012 8:05 am

Saiga wrote:
Nikkolas wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote: Well, martial artists normally don't do such things though...
Indeed. Even Vegeta probably paid more attention to his son than Goku did for his.
I'm calling bullshit on that. Apart from being dead and separated in the early Namek arc, Goku's been shown spending most of his time with Gohan.
Seconded. Out of all the people Goku is seen with throughout Z, it's mostly with Gohan.
Visit DragonBallFigures for all your Dragon Ball figure info and needs!
Mayuri Kurotsuchi wrote:"In this world, nothing perfect exists. It may be a cliche after all but it's the way things are. That's precisely why ordinary men pursue the concept of perfection, it's infatuation. But ultimately I have to ask myself "What is the true meaning of being perfect?" and the answer I came up with was nothing. Not one thing. The truth of the matter is I despise perfection! If something is truly perfect, that's IT! The bottom line becomes there is no room for imagination! No space for intelligence or ability or improvement! Do you understand? To men of science like us, perfection is a dead end, a condition of hopelessness. Always strive to be better than anything that came before you but not perfect! Scientist's agonize over the attempt to achieve perfection! That's the kind of creatures we are! We take joy in trying to exceed our grasp, in trying to reach for something that in the end, we have to admit may in fact be unreachable!"
MY HOLY GRAIL (110% Serious. Please sell me one)

Nikkolas
Regular
Posts: 506
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:00 pm

Re: Goku's Saiyan Pride

Post by Nikkolas » Fri May 11, 2012 8:39 am

I'm thinking of how Goku spent about two years on Yardrat when he could have teleported home any time he wanted to.

User avatar
Gonstead
I Live Here
Posts: 3500
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:33 am
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Re: Goku's Saiyan Pride

Post by Gonstead » Fri May 11, 2012 9:07 am

Nikkolas wrote:I'm thinking of how Goku spent about two years on Yardrat when he could have teleported home any time he wanted to.
1 year.

He was also being nursed back to health, which would have taken some time, fixing the pod and along with learning a very valuable technique which would have taken even longer to master from how simple it sounds to how complex it must of been, I'd say he's got a good perfectly good excuse for being away.

Also note that he would of needed to know where the Earth was if he was to attempt going there like with New Namek. The Ginyu pod was his only escape off of Yardrat and to get back to Earth.
Visit DragonBallFigures for all your Dragon Ball figure info and needs!
Mayuri Kurotsuchi wrote:"In this world, nothing perfect exists. It may be a cliche after all but it's the way things are. That's precisely why ordinary men pursue the concept of perfection, it's infatuation. But ultimately I have to ask myself "What is the true meaning of being perfect?" and the answer I came up with was nothing. Not one thing. The truth of the matter is I despise perfection! If something is truly perfect, that's IT! The bottom line becomes there is no room for imagination! No space for intelligence or ability or improvement! Do you understand? To men of science like us, perfection is a dead end, a condition of hopelessness. Always strive to be better than anything that came before you but not perfect! Scientist's agonize over the attempt to achieve perfection! That's the kind of creatures we are! We take joy in trying to exceed our grasp, in trying to reach for something that in the end, we have to admit may in fact be unreachable!"
MY HOLY GRAIL (110% Serious. Please sell me one)

Post Reply