Goku's Saiyan Pride

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Re: Goku's Saiyan Pride

Postby Gonstead » Mon May 14, 2012 9:10 pm

012yArthur0 wrote:Well, When Chi-Chi was pissed about Bra, her Ki was red.

Therefore, we can say that Goku teached Kaioken to Chichi to handle the "strenght" difference :lol:

But yeah, DBZ Adult content is pretty weird, especially that makes the "Strenght" and "Ki supression" a mess.

Marron, not Bra.
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Re: Goku's Saiyan Pride

Postby 012yArthur0 » Mon May 14, 2012 9:13 pm

Gonstead wrote:
012yArthur0 wrote:Well, When Chi-Chi was pissed about Bra, her Ki was red.

Therefore, we can say that Goku teached Kaioken to Chichi to handle the "strenght" difference :lol:

But yeah, DBZ Adult content is pretty weird, especially that makes the "Strenght" and "Ki supression" a mess.

Marron, not Bra.


Well,Yeah, but you got the idea.
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Re: Goku's Saiyan Pride

Postby GS7X7 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:08 am

Eire wrote:Vikings were humans, while Sayians were not. Such a comparison is so worn out that it strips alien form of life from all exotic, basically reducing them to super strong, flying humans with all our desires and customs. Well, even humans culture produced more creative customs that I see in fanfics. It seems that the only model that comes into people minds is are all lustful and complete sexists and monogamous with king's wife proclaimed a queen. What a boredom, more creativity people! Wouldn't alien warriors with no taste in other forms of life be much scarier? No hope for Genghis Khan scenario and no bad slavefics .


In real life most pirates would rape and engage in same-sex relations with their crew, but there's a notable lack of Brokeback loving and rape in One Piece.

It's a Shonen Jump series, not a Tarantino film! People can derive what they want from what's shown.

Still, having a child commit genocide against entire planets isn't nearly as evil as engaging in some rape. I mean, rape may seem more disgusting, but would one mass-rapist in a large city still be nearly as bad/evil as a nuclear bomb going off there?

Realistically they probably would rape. But if Toriyama was asked he'd probably given a canon reason for why it doesn't happen (I mean, he even refused to kill those 3 people stuck on the moon) maybe something about Saiyan morals/ethics. (killing's fine and dandy, but no rape)
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Re: Goku's Saiyan Pride

Postby soulnova » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:10 pm

Interesting how a "Saiyan pride" thread became a "Saiyan sexuality" class. I approve. ;)

While I don't doubt rape wasn't beyond some Saiyans, I firmly believe most of them got a greater satisfaction from fighting/killing. Besides, while rape is used in wars, Saiyan's tactics were along the lines of "scorch and disintegrate" anything that moves.

Anyway... let's see what we know about Saiyan Relationships:

  • When the Tsufuru-Saiyan War ended, Vegeta became King and a year later Prince Vegeta was born. They didn't lose time to get a heir, they were practical.
  • Bardock seems to have kept the same "mate" for Raditz and Kakarot. Saiyan might seem to be somewhat monogamous. Tarble also seems to come from the same mother as Vegeta... a very small woman, I imagine. :P
  • Females were seen hanging out at the Saiyan pub pretty much like Earthlings would do.
  • Raditz mentions that Saiyans were already relatively few even before the planet's destruction. For a culture making a living of going to destroy other planets, I half expected a Baby Boom right after the Tsufur War, which clearly didn't happen. They were more interested on fighting than making sure to increase their numbers.

Now, Vegeta is our Saiyan walking manual. Although I consider him to be the extreme example his race's culture, let's see what he says about some topics:

When they learn of Gohan's power level from Raditz, Nappa suggest they make "a flock" of hybrids with the Earthlings to start a new Empire. Vegeta quickly dismisses the idea saying that might backfire with brats too strong to control (Paragus knows this well). I'm pretty sure Nappa is not going to take female humans to a date (LOL), but the way he says it clearly is for a practical purpose, not because they are horny.

In any case, I doubt Freeza would have allowed the remaining Saiyans to "get some tail", as he was looking to get rid of the filthy monkeys.

In the manga, Bulma out flat says Vegeta and her were not together, so she didn't know where he was. It's not surprising that the infamous 3 years are a paradise for the Fanfic writers, but most of the time they show how they fall in love... which I really doubt happen. I believe Bulma made an advance on Vegeta, because... well, Yamcha wasn't there? *shrugs*, and Vegeta just went along with it. That would explain why he didn't care at all about Bulma and Baby Trunks until after training with Mirai and him getting one-shot by Cell. I believe he did stick around for Trunks' sake... and for plenty of food and a roof. 9_9

Now, let's see Goku... he never ever showed any kind of attraction to anyone or anything that wasn't fighting. He did not know what marriage meant when he was 19. I'm positive he did not know what was going to happen in their bedroom, at all. Depending on how Chichi handle it (no pun), their first time was either a very pleasant surprise or a complete disaster. Now, knowing Chichi and her obsessive idea to marry and have a perfect family, I bet she tried very hard to get pregnant right away. There's a funny fact about Gohan... Gohan was born on May Age 757, a whole year after Goku and Chichi married (May Age 756). That's about three months from the honey moon until his conception.

I bet the basics were laid out and the deed done, but I do believe she had to be the one initiating any encounter several days later as Goku is very oblivious regarding this stuff.


TL;DR

Saiyan might like to keep one mate just to avoid wasting time dating, but like to fight more than they like sex.
Check out Journey's End, a short story of Goku and Vegeta's final days. "Time is running out for the last two Saiyans"
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Re: Goku's Saiyan Pride

Postby Fox666 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:30 pm

soulnova wrote:
  • When the Tsufuru-Saiyan War ended, Vegeta became King and a year later Prince Vegeta was born. They didn't lose time to get a heir, they were practical.

Isn't that only from Dragon Ball Multiverse?
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Re: Goku's Saiyan Pride

Postby soulnova » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:38 pm

Fox666 wrote:
soulnova wrote:
  • When the Tsufuru-Saiyan War ended, Vegeta became King and a year later Prince Vegeta was born. They didn't lose time to get a heir, they were practical.

Isn't that only from Dragon Ball Multiverse?


No. http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Ball_Timeline

Age 720-730
The Saiyan-Tuffle war takes place.[2]
Saiyan-Tuffle war: The war comes to an abrupt end when the Saiyans transform into Great Apes at the light of the full moon.

All of the other Tuffles are annihilated, and the Saiyans take control of the planet and rename it Planet Vegeta.


Age 731
The Saiyans are annexed by the galactic overlord Freeza and start conquering planets to sell. King Vegeta marries his queen.[2]

Age 732
Vegeta is born.


EDIT: Wait, you are referring to Vegeta not being King before the war? I seem to remember that information is from the OVAs. Is generally accepted that the Saiyans were too chaotic and... uhm... dumb to make a stand against the Tsufurujin until Vegeta rallied them up and lead them to take over the planet. Hence, he took the title of King and the planet named after him. He might have been a leader, but not "a King".
Check out Journey's End, a short story of Goku and Vegeta's final days. "Time is running out for the last two Saiyans"
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Re: Goku's Saiyan Pride

Postby GS7X7 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:57 pm

In human cultures, most princes aren't badasses, they're generally spoiled playboys. (unless they're obsessively groomed to look utterly proper like in Japan)
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Re: Goku's Saiyan Pride

Postby LiamKav » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:55 am

Piccolo Daimao wrote:By the way, Saiyans are humans and mostly similar to Earthlings. But let's end it here and agree to disagree.

Well, yes if you're going by the slightly odd usage of "human" in the DragonBall universe where a giant talking dog can also be "human". Although since they can produce a child without any difficulty (since I can't imagine Goku and Chi-Chi hanging around hospitals having a variety of tests)... it's just weird.

Eire wrote:For example: Lois Lane had a pendant to protect her from being squeezed during preforming her wife's duties with Super.

Er, what? Did that actually come up in the comics? I always thought it was something that was completely glossed over?
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Re: Goku's Saiyan Pride

Postby Piccolo Daimao » Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:12 pm

LiamKav wrote:
Piccolo Daimao wrote:By the way, Saiyans are humans and mostly similar to Earthlings. But let's end it here and agree to disagree.

Well, yes if you're going by the slightly odd usage of "human" in the DragonBall universe where a giant talking dog can also be "human". Although since they can produce a child without any difficulty (since I can't imagine Goku and Chi-Chi hanging around hospitals having a variety of tests)... it's just weird.


I don't think DB's the only series that uses "human" in that way (not saying that you said that, though), and I'm not sure if it's entirely odd, judging by what someone else posted here, in terms of language history and whatnot. Something like that.
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Re: Goku's Saiyan Pride

Postby Eire » Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:42 pm

GS7X7 wrote:In human cultures, most princes aren't badasses, they're generally spoiled playboys. (unless they're obsessively groomed to look utterly proper like in Japan)

Unless you are talking about real princes, especially in wartime.

Still, having a child commit genocide against entire planets isn't nearly as evil as engaging in some rape. I mean, rape may seem more disgusting, but would one mass-rapist in a large city still be nearly as bad/evil as a nuclear bomb going off there?

From some reasons rape is generally considered worse than murder(maybe because there's no reason that it could ever be justified).


Raditz mentions that Saiyans were already relatively few even before the planet's destruction. For a culture making a living of going to destroy other planets, I half expected a Baby Boom right after the Tsufur War, which clearly didn't happen. They were more interested on fighting than making sure to increase their numbers.

It isn't so surprising when we remember that Sayians weren't particularly keen on co-operation or organised fight. They don't rely on number of the soldiers so there's no urge to reproduce. Besides they don't seem to be the easiest to rule and organize, especially that their kingdom was quite new one. (Don't you think that they moved to Tsufurian's cities an places like those funny crabs that change shells?)
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Re: Goku's Saiyan Pride

Postby Piccolo Daimao » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:52 pm

Eire wrote:
Still, having a child commit genocide against entire planets isn't nearly as evil as engaging in some rape. I mean, rape may seem more disgusting, but would one mass-rapist in a large city still be nearly as bad/evil as a nuclear bomb going off there?

From some reasons rape is generally considered worse than crime (maybe because there's no reason that it could ever be justified).


Um, just nitpicking here, but rape is a crime. Perhaps you meant murder. Anyway, there are many reasons why many people consider rape worse than murder, one of which being the fact that a rape victim's forced to suffer the psychological (and, in numerous cases, social) damage for the rest of their life, while a corpse doesn't because, you know, it'd be dead. There's a great number of rape victims that commit suicide afterwards because they'd rather be dead than bear the mental torment.
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Re: Goku's Saiyan Pride

Postby LiamKav » Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:48 pm

Arguing as to whether rape or murder is worse is probably the least fun conversation you can have, and should probably be avoided unless you're a judge.

Piccolo Daimao wrote:I don't think DB's the only series that uses "human" in that way (not saying that you said that, though), and I'm not sure if it's entirely odd, judging by what someone else posted here, in terms of language history and whatnot. Something like that.

Sci-fi tends to go for "humanoid" to refer to species that are like humans, and humans to refer specifically to those that are from Earth. Which is a bit Earth-centric, but hey, if they're all going to be speaking English. I'm not sure of any other series that uses "human" the same way DragonBall does, to refer to creatures from any planet who look like homo sapiens.

(If I remember correctly, Oolong and co are called "Animal-type Earthlings", aren't they? Or is it "Animal-type humans"?)
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Re: Goku's Saiyan Pride

Postby Piccolo Daimao » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:43 pm

LiamKav wrote:Arguing as to whether rape or murder is worse is probably the least fun conversation you can have, and should probably be avoided unless you're a judge.


Yeah, we should probably just move away from that.

LiamKav wrote:
Piccolo Daimao wrote:I don't think DB's the only series that uses "human" in that way (not saying that you said that, though), and I'm not sure if it's entirely odd, judging by what someone else posted here, in terms of language history and whatnot. Something like that.

Sci-fi tends to go for "humanoid" to refer to species that are like humans, and humans to refer specifically to those that are from Earth. Which is a bit Earth-centric, but hey, if they're all going to be speaking English. I'm not sure of any other series that uses "human" the same way DragonBall does, to refer to creatures from any planet who look like homo sapiens.

(If I remember correctly, Oolong and co are called "Animal-type Earthlings", aren't they? Or is it "Animal-type humans"?)


Yeah, I'm not sure whether or not I was thinking about "human" or "humanoid" when I said that there might be other series that use DB's kind of terminology.

And I think Oolong are called "Animal-type Earthlings", but they're also called humans.
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Re: Goku's Saiyan Pride

Postby GS7X7 » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:27 pm

Why was Oolong interested in acquiring a wife then?

It would seem to suggest that the two species (humanoid and humanoid animal) are capable of reproducing, though I think someone said the Daizenshuu stated that humanoid animals were dying out due to a lack of reproducable numbers or something.
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Re: Goku's Saiyan Pride

Postby LiamKav » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:46 pm

GS7X7 wrote:Why was Oolong interested in acquiring a wife then?

It would seem to suggest that the two species (humanoid and humanoid animal) are capable of reproducing, though I think someone said the Daizenshuu stated that humanoid animals were dying out due to a lack of reproducable numbers or something.

Wasn't that to explain away how we see progressively less animal-type Earthlings as the series progresses?

Maybe the DragonWorld is a bit racist. Humans don't mind hanging around with talking pig creatures, but you wouldn't want your daughter to marry one.
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Re: Goku's Saiyan Pride

Postby GS7X7 » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:06 pm

I wouldn't call that racist.

I mean, would you really want your daughter shacking up with a talking pig guy? :?


Still, we don't even know if humans/humanoid animals are even compatible or not, or if there's any prejudice between the species. Given that the leader of Earth is a talking dog, it'd seem that there's little inter-special hostility.

If the Daizenshuu says that humanoid-animals are dying out (as an excuse for the anime/manga showing them less) then that likely means they can't interbreed with humans, although Oolong's priar interest in a human wife would suggest they can. (of course, Toriyama probably just made up that "they're dying out" thing on the spot, but he still created it)
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Re: Goku's Saiyan Pride

Postby LiamKav » Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:31 am

GS7X7 wrote:I wouldn't call that racist.

I mean, would you really want your daughter shacking up with a talking pig guy? :?
As talking animals are fairly common place on DB Earth, then yeah, it is racist. You could not want your daughter to get with Oolong because he's, well, Oolong, but just because he's an animal-type Earthling? Again, I will say racist.

Still, we don't even know ... if there's any prejudice between the species. Given that the leader of Earth is a talking dog, it'd seem that there's little inter-special hostility.
That is true, in the same way that since Obama got voted in, racism in the US has been eliminated.

That was sarcasm.
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Re: Goku's Saiyan Pride

Postby Piccolo Daimao » Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:14 am

GS7X7 wrote:Why was Oolong interested in acquiring a wife then?

It would seem to suggest that the two species (humanoid and humanoid animal) are capable of reproducing, though I think someone said the Daizenshuu stated that humanoid animals were dying out due to a lack of reproducable numbers or something.


Oolong was, like, an 8-year-old piglet who probably didn't know much about sex and just wanted to feel some titties, regardless of "species" (they're all still Earthlings anyway). And maybe (this is crazy, but it is the Dragon World), they were compatible. We do see, when he and Pu-erh fly out as bats to stop Pilaf from summoning Shenlong, that he's got a penis that looks quite similar to Gokuu's.

GS7X7 wrote:I wouldn't call that racist.

I mean, would you really want your daughter shacking up with a talking pig guy? :?


No, I wouldn't want my daughter shacking up with a lecherous kidnapper who both almost forced her to marry her and later tried to sexually abuse her in her sleep.

That does bring up an interesting topic, though. The Dragon World is quite fucked-up, having all manners of creatures and humans living in it, so I do wonder what interracial and interspecies hostility was like. I still find it amusing that no-one batted an eyelid at Ma Junior's green skin at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai (but that monk and Videl did think he was sick at the 25th, which could represent the drastically different world they're in now, due to the notable absence of non-human-type Earthlings), while they were all shocked that Gokuu happened to have a tail. I mean, he was standing next to a guy with no fucking nose! And later, one with a third eye on his forehead, and another who looked like he'd lost his way from the circus...and yet no-one piped up over that!

If I was more self-aware, for lack of a better word, than Gokuu, I'd call racism.
Last edited by Piccolo Daimao on Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:37 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Goku's Saiyan Pride

Postby TobyS » Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:32 am

LiamKav wrote:
GS7X7 wrote:I wouldn't call that racist.

I mean, would you really want your daughter shacking up with a talking pig guy? :?
As talking animals are fairly common place on DB Earth, then yeah, it is racist. You could not want your daughter to get with Oolong because he's, well, Oolong, but just because he's an animal-type Earthling? Again, I will say racist.

Still, we don't even know ... if there's any prejudice between the species. Given that the leader of Earth is a talking dog, it'd seem that there's little inter-special hostility.
That is true, in the same way that since Obama got voted in, racism in the US has been eliminated.

That was sarcasm.


I've heard it argued that Obama was allowed to be voted in because the presidency is no longer relavent.
Like how citys only got black mayors after mayorships became irrelavent.

Perhaps there is a really sinister NWO in the dragonworld and the dog president is just to placate the masses like Obama is accused of being IRL. Would make a good fanfic. Maybe the red ribbon army knew about this and were a millitant grassroots movement looking to overthrow the status quo. Red was a puppet cointelpro agent. hence why he was shot by Black when he realised his agenda was petty. Maybe they were a misunderstood group of freedom fighters who were only labelled as terrorists by the mainstream media. You know like those crazy Alqi-ida (sp?) or IRA think themselves to be.

Maybe they leaked intell to the RRA about the existence of the dragonballs on purpose, setting them up to clash with Goku and his pals as a means to eliminate one or both groups.

When the z-warriors got too strong, they supplied Gero with the resources to eleminate them, realising they had replaced one enemy with potentially more dangerous one.

It writes itself! :lol:
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Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
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Re: Goku's Saiyan Pride

Postby GS7X7 » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:47 am

"As talking animals are fairly common place on DB Earth, then yeah, it is racist. You could not want your daughter to get with Oolong because he's, well, Oolong, but just because he's an animal-type Earthling? Again, I will say racist."

I think Buster and Bunny are cool guys but, I wouldn't want my daughter shacking up with them. It'd just feel kind of weird -because they're talking humanoid animals.-
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