Androids 19 and 20's presence in the alternate timelines

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Androids 19 and 20's presence in the alternate timelines

Post by Dr. Machismo » Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:37 pm

Most people seem to act as if they never struck together in Future Trunks' and Cell's timelines, but I don't see how or why. Regardless of what Goku and his friends were doing prior to May 12th, 767 starting from when they went to Planet Namek, it wouldn't have had any effect on Gero's production of the Androids.

The way I see it, Androids 19 and 20 still struck Amenbo Island in Future Trunks' and Cell's timelines just as they did in the main one. The Z Force manages to kill 19 but 20 (Gero) survives long enough to escape and activate 17 and 18. They kill him, but 16 is not activated for some reason (makes sense, since events would already be unfolding differently from the main timeline. Maybe Gero had enough time to put him away before 17 and 18 could see, or 17 and 18 weren't interested in activating him). 17 and 18 would then go on to kill most of the Z Force and all witnesses of the first Androids (Gohan and Bulma probably wouldn't have been, which is why Trunks doesn't find out about them until he travels to the past). In both Future Trunks and Cell's timelines, the Androids are defeated but in the former's, Trunks also kills Cell and in the latter, Cell kills Trunks.
Last edited by Dr. Machismo on Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:10 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Androids 19 and 20's presence in Future Trunks' timeline

Post by dbgtFO » Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:44 pm

I agree wholeheartedly. I wouldn't be surprised, if Toriyama or others were to disregard such logic(which the Tv Special apparently did), but as far as I'm concerned it would have happened like that.

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Re: Androids 19 and 20's presence in Future Trunks' timeline

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:05 pm

Never really thought about this. I have a hard time believing the Z-warriors would survive long enough to actually get to the other Androids, tho.
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Re: Androids 19 and 20's presence in Future Trunks' timeline

Post by hleV » Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:21 pm

Maybe #19 and #20 weren't supposed to exist at all. Cell travelling to the past fucked shit up.

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Re: Androids 19 and 20's presence in Future Trunks' timeline

Post by Fox666 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:35 pm

That's possible, since they are supposed to be the most recent models.

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Re: Androids 19 and 20's presence in Future Trunks' timeline

Post by Bussani » Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:58 pm

Dr. Machismo wrote:Most people seem to act as if they never struck together in Future Trunks' and Cell's timelines, but I don't see how or why. Regardless of what Goku and his friends were doing prior to May 12th, 767 starting from when they went to Planet Namek, it wouldn't have had any effect on Gero's production of the Androids.

The way I see it, Androids 19 and 20 still struck Amenbo Island in Future Trunks' and Cell's timelines, but 19 was still killed. 20 (Gero) survives long enough to escape and activate 17 and 18. They kill him, but 16 is not activated for some reason (makes sense, since events would already be unfolding differently from the main timeline). 17 and 18 then go on to kill most of the Z Force.
You're definitely not the only one (around here at least) who thinks this way. That said, I think my suspension of disbelief stretches far enough to accept that they didn't exist in Trunks' timeline, depending on a lot of factors, but the idea that they did and that Bulma, Trunks, and Gohan didn't find out about it seems like a more straightforward answer to me.
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Re: Androids 19 and 20's presence in Future Trunks' timeline

Post by Kaboom » Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:51 pm

I've figured the same thing; 19 and 20 may very well have appeared in Trunks' future as well, but ended up not being remembered for some reason or another. 19 may have gotten his ass demolished by Vegeta or Piccolo or both, leading 20/Gero to release 17 and 18 only for them to kill him. With 17 and 18 going on to kill all the much-weaker-than-alternately heroes too in the ensuing battle, maybe there were simply no witnesses of 19 and 20 left. Gohan especially probably wouldn't have been involved in the battle, or gotten there late, or what have you.
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Re: Androids 19 and 20's presence in Future Trunks' timeline

Post by Dr. Machismo » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:59 pm

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:Never really thought about this. I have a hard time believing the Z-warriors would survive long enough to actually get to the other Androids, tho.
I don't see how it'd be hard to believe that Piccolo and Vegeta would have gotten strong enough to kill the initial duo. We all know that they'd still be training even if they weren't told about the Androids. And I seriously doubt Vegeta wouldn't have been strong enough to turn Super Saiyan by the time the Androids show up.
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Re: Androids 19 and 20's presence in the alternate timelines

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:10 am

Maybe not Vegeta, but we know Piccolo had grew incredibly powerful because he trained with Super Saiyan Goku. Not having him around to spar with would mean Piccolo wouldn't have been nearly as strong at that point in the future.

Gohan was said to have been in the battle and barely escaped. This was in-reference to the battle with the Androids when they wiped out the Z-warriors, I believe, rather than the battle with the Androids where #17 says he was using less than half of his power. Of course, it depends on how you want to look at it. The "battle" as Trunks called it, could've either been a huge battle, or it could've been through an extended period of time. That comes down to interpretation. If Gohan was with the others, it's hard to believe he wouldn't have been around during some battle with the initial Androids. Well, unless he thought it wasn't worth mentioning to Trunks, yet somehow thought it was worth mentioning where they'd arrive and what time. Just seems odd.

I'll admit, it's very possible Gohan could've saw the destruction of the island on tv, and probably later assumed it was #17 and #18 rather than the other two, since he wouldn't have been around to see those two, but would've been well aware of the ones he fought when he decided to tell Trunks about them. He probably fought the Androids after the others had already been done in, but in that same period, or he could've fought alongside the others. No telling. I just like the idea of Gohan escaping from the Androids during a huge battle where everyone was fighting. There are many different ways to look at this.
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Re: Androids 19 and 20's presence in the alternate timelines

Post by NANLIT » Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:57 pm

I agree. In the other timelines, since the Z Fighters had no preknowledge about the Artificial Humans, there is no guarantee that they arrived at the same time. In this sense, Gohan could have come in late, after 19 and 20 were dealt with, and just assumed 17 and 18 caused all the destruction because there was no one alive to tell him any different.

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Re: Androids 19 and 20's presence in the alternate timelines

Post by Dr. Machismo » Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:50 pm

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:Maybe not Vegeta, but we know Piccolo had grew incredibly powerful because he trained with Super Saiyan Goku. Not having him around to spar with would mean Piccolo wouldn't have been nearly as strong at that point in the future.
Piccolo didn't even have to use that much of his strength to defeat 20, so it's still debatable. The alternate timelines' Piccolo wouldn't have been as strong as the main one's, but I still think he was strong enough to defeat the initial androids.
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Re: Androids 19 and 20's presence in the alternate timelines

Post by Pantalones » Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:25 pm

Maybe not Vegeta, but we know Piccolo had grew incredibly powerful because he trained with Super Saiyan Goku. Not having him around to spar with would mean Piccolo wouldn't have been nearly as strong at that point in the future.
Wait... how long before the Androids' first attack did Goku die, anyway?

I know the virus hit him later in the "series as we know it" timeline than it did in Trunks' timeline (getting sick in the middle of #19's fight, instead of dying before any of the Androids show up), but I never got the impression that it was years later... so Piccolo could have still trained with Goku before his death, they just wouldn't have the whole "train super hard to fight the Androids" motivation there on top of the usual "train to get stronger for the sake of getting stronger."

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Re: Androids 19 and 20's presence in the alternate timelines

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:18 pm

Trunks: "You will grow ill not long from now...and die."

So, not sure when exactly. Based on what Trunks says, it could've been in a few months or so.
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Re: Androids 19 and 20's presence in the alternate timelines

Post by matt0044 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:38 pm

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:Trunks: "You will grow ill not long from now...and die."

So, not sure when exactly. Based on what Trunks says, it could've been in a few months or so.
It was six months before the Androids would attack.

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Re: Androids 19 and 20's presence in the alternate timelines

Post by Bussani » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:45 pm

matt0044 wrote:
Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:Trunks: "You will grow ill not long from now...and die."
So, not sure when exactly. Based on what Trunks says, it could've been in a few months or so.
It was six months before the Androids would attack.
Where does it say that? I'm pretty sure it's not said in the manga.
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Re: Androids 19 and 20's presence in the alternate timelines

Post by Herms » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:53 pm

The Trunks TV special has them attack 6 months after Goku's death, in contrast to the manga's line about him dying soon after returning to Earth. Presumably this change was so that they could show baby Trunks present at Goku's death, and Trunks says he'll be born 2.5 years after Goku's return.
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Re: Androids 19 and 20's presence in the alternate timelines

Post by Dr. Machismo » Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:38 pm

Three years isn't that long, especially when you'll be dead by then.
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Re: Androids 19 and 20's presence in the alternate timelines

Post by Fox666 » Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:26 am

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:Maybe not Vegeta, but we know Piccolo had grew incredibly powerful because he trained with Super Saiyan Goku. Not having him around to spar with would mean Piccolo wouldn't have been nearly as strong at that point in the future.
While I also generally go by the idea that Piccolo increased his power so much training with Goku, it is not confirmed.

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Re: Androids 19 and 20's presence in the alternate timelines

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:48 am

I believe that Dr. Gero changed his plans when he heard about Goku's death. Instead of working on #19 & himself, he revised #17 & #18, made them serial killers instead of Goku killers, and suppressed their power to make them more controllable. He also destroyed #16. So, Gero activated #17 & #18, told them to go to that island, but they killed him before going there, with Cell slowly growing up in the depths of the laboratory. Rest is history.

Makes sence, since Trunks said that #17 & #18 were the ones who attacked in that island, and also said that #16, #19 & #20 never appeared in his future.
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Re: Androids 19 and 20's presence in the alternate timelines

Post by Bussani » Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:59 am

Huh, I used to think the same thing, DBZGTKOSDH. I kind of dismissed the idea when I posted in this thread, thinking something like, "Why did I think that? Gero wasn't watching them anymore, so he wouldn't know what was going on." But it's certainly possible that he could have heard about Goku's death somehow.
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