Full Power Super Saiyan Multiplier?

[Bussani]

Maybe against Cell & the Cell Jrs, Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks decided not to use the form because it wasn't worth to sacrifice energy because it still wouldn't be enough to beat them.

That's what I said earlier, and it's pretty much a good enough explanation for me.

[Mjb1985]

The separate road theory works better.

You have regular Super Saiyan.

One road leads to overall less power but Grade forms.

The other road leads to maximum potential Ssj , but no accessibility to Grade forms.

It's the only way it makes sense.

[Bussani]

It's the only way it makes sense.

Well, I disagree with you there, but if that's how you feel then that's how you feel.

[Mjb1985]

Ok then we will agree to disagree.

When your life's on the line, you will summon your maximum power to make sure you don't die. Considering that no one pulled out any Grade forms when their life was on the line, it just wouldn't make sense for them to have access to any more power than they showed. At least that's the logic I am going by here.

[Saiga]

Well, Super Saiyan Grade 2 is weaker than Super Saiyan 2, so Grade 2 doesn't even double the user's strength. Maybe against Cell & the Cell Jrs, Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks decided not to use the form because it wasn't worth to sacrifice energy because it still wouldn't be enough to beat them.

That's what I believe.

[Mjb1985]

Personally I don't see how the Grade forms could possibly compare to Super Saiyan 2.

I think of Grade 2 as a 2x boost and Grade 3 as a 2x boost off of that.

Super Saiyan 2 I see as a 5x boost .

[TheMightyOzaru]

Personally I don't see how the Grade forms could possibly compare to Super Saiyan 2.

I think of Grade 2 as a 2x boost and Grade 3 as a 2x boost off of that.

Super Saiyan 2 I see as a 5x boost .

SSJ2 is 2x. Its stated in the SEG.

[Fox666]

Yeah, there isn't much room for speculation regarding Super Saiyan 2.

[Bussani]

Unless you just want to ignore what the Super Exciting Guides say, that is. Or interpret them differently, like, "They say strength instead of battle power, so maybe it's only double the physical strength, but five times the ki." Or something. People can come up with amazingly different ways of looking at these things.

[Mjb1985]

Yea I definitely won't go by the SEG boost here.

It would just be weird if Injured Ssj2 Gohan was far weaker than Ssj Gohan was IMO... A 2x boost just doesn't feel like nearly enough in my book.

[Herms]

Well, you could say that Cell Games Gohan has a bigger difference between his regular Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2 forms than is normal, since he's angry and a Super Saiyan 2 at the same time. After all, in the Boo arc Vegeta and Goku see Super Saiyan 2 Gohan at the tournament, but while Vegeta notes that he and Goku are stronger than Gohan now, he also says there's no telling what might happen if Gohan were to fly into a rage. Likewise, Goku later tells Gohan to get angry, saying that nobody could beat him if he did. So this seems to indicate that the power-ups Gohan receives from getting angry exist seperately from his Super Saiyan 2 form, and he had both going on at once during the Cell Games.

[Mjb1985]

Yea that's true, the enraged boost way.

Actually picked up a little gem reading the manga the other day. While the Cell Juniors are beating up the Z Senshi , Gohan's power in Super Saiyan actually does raise a little. Noted by Cell, I'm not sure if your translations would cover that as well, but that was actually a nice gem to add to the enraged boost theory.

I personally have a completely different point of view on the whole matter, but there is a case to be made for it for sure. I won't go in depth on this topic on this post though it would be too much.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Didn't Vegeta state that Goku was stronger than his son was when he fought Cell? That aside however, I think I may have discovered how FPSSJ works. What FPSSJ does is it acts as a base form so to speak. This base form allows them to put more energy out and not strain there body like the grade SSJ's do just like Vegeta said. After they put energy into this form, the original base form of the Saiyan powers up as well. Basically there base SSJ forms, so to speak, act as a catalyst so they can generate more power than a traditional SSJ would. Now I'm not sure where these "base SSJ" forms are at in terms of a multiplier but when they revert to their base forms the new fully powered SSJ divides by 50 like SSJ normally does effectively increasing their base power levels. Sorry if that didnt make a lot of sense.

[Fox666]

Well, you could say that Cell Games Gohan has a bigger difference between his regular Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2 forms than is normal, since he's angry and a Super Saiyan 2 at the same time. After all, in the Boo arc Vegeta and Goku see Super Saiyan 2 Gohan at the tournament, but while Vegeta notes that he and Goku are stronger than Gohan now, he also says there's no telling what might happen if Gohan were to fly into a rage. Likewise, Goku later tells Gohan to get angry, saying that nobody could beat him if he did. So this seems to indicate that the power-ups Gohan receives from getting angry exist seperately from his Super Saiyan 2 form, and he had both going on at once during the Cell Games.

I dunno, but after Goku died Gohan reverted back to his Super Saiyan form. Shouldn't his anger be gone at the point?

[MisguidedGhost]

I dunno, but after Goku died Gohan reverted back to his Super Saiyan form. Shouldn't his anger be gone at the point?

I always figured that too, but I like to think that Gohan managed to tap back into that anger at the tail end of his beam struggle with Cell, and that's how Gohan overwhelmed him. Plus, that also helps explain how Cell was able to severely hurt Gohan, but then Gohan still kills Cell soon after. Gohan was Super Saiyan 2 when he took that hit for Vegeta, but not enraged. When he made the final push against Cell, he uncorked all that extra rage power. Just my little theory.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Gohan still looks pretty angry to me. Last I checked anger was still the trigger for Gohan's SSJ2 transformation. I just stick to Gohan being able to tap into more potential.

[Saiga]

It was also the trigger for Goku's Super Saiyan transformation, but he was able to transform after that without anger.

[TheMightyOzaru]

It was also the trigger for Goku's Super Saiyan transformation, but he was able to transform after that without anger.

You forget that it took Goku a while to get under his belt. I highly doubt Gohan was able to master it just like that.

[Saiga]

It was also the trigger for Goku's Super Saiyan transformation, but he was able to transform after that without anger.

You forget that it took Goku a while to get under his belt. I highly doubt Gohan was able to master it just like that.

He transformed twice on Namek, just like Gohan transforming twice against Cell.

[TheMightyOzaru]

It was also the trigger for Goku's Super Saiyan transformation, but he was able to transform after that without anger.

You forget that it took Goku a while to get under his belt. I highly doubt Gohan was able to master it just like that.

He transformed twice on Namek, just like Gohan transforming twice against Cell.

He was also really angry when Frieza hit the side of his face with a freakin Kienzon and turned down his mercy.