Strongest Earthling

[Titan]

The guidebooks say that Tenshinhan is an Earthling. He descends from the "Three Eyed Clan" who themselves descended from an alien race, but he's still considered an Earthling.

Oh, so Tenshinhan isn't simply half human half alien? If he's only a descendant from an alien race, then I guess it does make sense to consider him more of a human than Gohan and others.

We don't know how much alien blood Tenshinhan has in his body.

[Gokuden]

There's enough alien blood in him to show his third-eye trait.

[Saiga]

He's the descendant of descendants of aliens. That doesn't scream "half-alien" to me, unless you assume the bloodline was kept pure until it reached Tenshinhan (or half-breeds only bred with other half-breeds), but that's not what the guides imply at all.

Ah, so it wasn't stated that Tenshinhan was more talented than Kuririn. I thought as much. Being impressed by someone stronger than you doesn't mean there is a huge gap. And even if there was, Kuririn was closing it.

I don't think Tenshinhan's battle power of 1830 needs explaining because it fits just fine.

And I'm not going to take the anime into consideration. If we're taking non-manga material into consideration, then Kuririn is 100% confirmed to be the strongest anyway, with him being called the strongest Earthling and Tenshinhan being considered an Earthling in guidebooks.

I'd like a source for Daimao's battle power of 201. I've never seen it anywhere.

[Insertclevername]

I've always just believed that Kuririn is the strongest. Perhaps because he was relevant for so long compared to Tenshinhan or Yamucha. Also there seems to be more implication that Kuririn is the strongest human (Not counting Oob's potential), with the quotes and the bios always leaning towards that.

Also, nice 3000th post Saiga!

[Kaboom]

I'd like a source for Daimao's battle power of 201. I've never seen it anywhere.

Me neither. Someone probably just envisioned it as something in-between Goku and Ten's 180 at the 22nd Tournament and Piccolo and Goku's 260 during their "final" battle at the capitol.

[Perfect]

Yamcha is the strongest human in all categories; he's social, strong, a Casanova, he can provide to his family with the money he makes from pro-baseball, he can take care of shape-shifting pets, he can make a girl's heart melt with a smile, why didn't he sleep with Maron? He can rob banks, he can rob travelers, he can rob hearts, he's very good with his hands, fingers, and spatial cognitive abilities (see spirit-ball), he's got a cool-looking fighting style.

Thus, Yamcha is easily the strongest human in DragonBall.
We need more Yamucha love-affairs on this forum.

Goku was the strongest looking humanoid in DragonBall.

If Tenshinhan is a hume, then Goku is as well.

You forgot he made it with Bulma and has an expensive car. Plus he's really good at losing and dying with benefits. Man's a genius.

[Saiga]

I've always just believed that Kuririn is the strongest. Perhaps because he was relevant for so long compared to Tenshinhan or Yamucha. Also there seems to be more implication that Kuririn is the strongest human (Not counting Oob's potential), with the quotes and the bios always leaning towards that.

Also, nice 3000th post Saiga!

Thanks.

I actually used to believe Tenshinhan was the strongest, back when I thought he and Yamcha were stronger than Kuririn. This was back when my main Dragon Ball medium was the video games, and stuff like Budokai 1's Cell what-if story made him look very weak. And of course, during school the jokes were always about Kuririn. I can't remember when it was that I realised Kuririn was stronger - it's been so long ago now.

[Insertclevername]

I think since people really started to rip on Kuririn, especially since TFS, his image (and consequently the perception of his strength) has gone down considerably. I probably at one point thought Kuririn was weaker than Tenshinhan as well, but that was probably from him seeming much less serious than the latter, making me think he wasn't as strong.

[Bussani]

To be fair, people have been joking about Kuririn being weak since long before Team Four Star came along.

[Saiga]

To be fair, people have been joking about Kuririn being weak since long before Team Four Star came along.

Oh, of course. I wouldn't blame them for it, in fact they do point out that Yamcha is weaker once or twice. They probably do contribute somewhat to the misconception that he is particularly weak among the humans though, unintentionally.

But they also joke about Popo being the strongest being around, and I'm sure most viewers don't actually think that's true.

[mister yummy]

I think Popo's as strong as he needs to be in whatever situation he finds himself in. Notice how he parry's punches from Gotan and Trunks.

---

Depending on definition and when in the story we're talking about, ithe strongest Human Fighter could be any of the following: Uub, Gohan, Tenshinhan, Kurillin, or Olive.

Uub works unless he's disqualified for being a reincarnated Buu.

Gohan works unless we disqualify him for being only half human. I never see him excluded from lists of saiya-jin for the same reason though...

Tenshinhan or Kurillin work if both are disqualified, and we're only referring to the manga. I personally think that by the end of Dragonball Z, Ten is stronger, but that's up for debate.

Olive works unless he's disqualified for being filler only, or for being dead.

Including all of these, here's my list of strongest humans.

1: Gohan
2: Uub
3: Trunks
4: Goten
5: Pan
6: Olive
7: Tenshinhan
8: Kurillin
9: Yamcha
10: Chaotzu
11: Tao Pai Pai
12: Kamesennin
13: Grandpa Gohan
14: Ox King
15: Tsurusennin
16: Bora
17: Mr. Satan
18: Videl
19: ChiChi
20: Nam
21: King Chapa
22: Panput
19: Ranfan

Any weaker than this areen't worthy of mention. I imagine Bra would be somewhere on the list above Mr. Satan, but as she never fights, I have no idea where to put her. Goku Jr. And Vegita Jr. oughtta be on there as well, but again I have no idea where to put them. Even Gotenks would fit on this list, but I don't really consider him Human. Or Saiya-jin for that matter.

[Insertclevername]

To be fair, people have been joking about Kuririn being weak since long before Team Four Star came along.

Oh, I know, it's just that I think TFS really....er whats the word?... re-surged the popularity in making fun of him. I think the new era of fans who may have been introduced via Abridged are now under that undermining Kuririn impression from the start, without any acknowledgments of his actual accomplishments of strength. Add in the fact that memes about Kuririn's weakness (and ones about his deaths) circulate all around as well.


Or maybe it's just internet inflation and bashing Kuririn is just about the same as it's always been. =P

But they also joke about Popo being the strongest being around, and I'm sure most viewers don't actually think that's true.

I wouldn't be surprised.

[sonikku956]

I think Popo's as strong as he needs to be in whatever situation he finds himself in. Notice how he parry's punches from Gotan and Trunks.

---

Depending on definition and when in the story we're talking about, ithe strongest Human Fighter could be any of the following: Uub, Gohan, Tenshinhan, Kurillin, or Olive.

Uub works unless he's disqualified for being a reincarnated Buu.

Gohan works unless we disqualify him for being only half human. I never see him excluded from lists of saiya-jin for the same reason though...

Tenshinhan or Kurillin work if both are disqualified, and we're only referring to the manga. I personally think that by the end of Dragonball Z, Ten is stronger, but that's up for debate.

Olive works unless he's disqualified for being filler only, or for being dead.

Including all of these, here's my list of strongest humans.

1: Gohan
2: Uub
3: Trunks
4: Goten
5: Pan
6: Olive
7: Tenshinhan
8: Kurillin
9: Yamcha
10: Chaotzu
11: Tao Pai Pai
12: Kamesennin
13: Grandpa Gohan
14: Ox King
15: Tsurusennin
16: Bora
17: Mr. Satan
18: Videl
19: ChiChi
20: Nam
21: King Chapa
22: Panput
19: Ranfan

Any weaker than this areen't worthy of mention. I imagine Bra would be somewhere on the list above Mr. Satan, but as she never fights, I have no idea where to put her. Goku Jr. And Vegita Jr. oughtta be on there as well, but again I have no idea where to put them. Even Gotenks would fit on this list, but I don't really consider him Human. Or Saiya-jin for that matter.

Chichi is much stronger than Mark or Videl.

[DBZAOTA482]

I think Popo's as strong as he needs to be in whatever situation he finds himself in. Notice how he parry's punches from Gotan and Trunks.

---

Depending on definition and when in the story we're talking about, ithe strongest Human Fighter could be any of the following: Uub, Gohan, Tenshinhan, Kurillin, or Olive.

Uub works unless he's disqualified for being a reincarnated Buu.

Gohan works unless we disqualify him for being only half human. I never see him excluded from lists of saiya-jin for the same reason though...

Tenshinhan or Kurillin work if both are disqualified, and we're only referring to the manga. I personally think that by the end of Dragonball Z, Ten is stronger, but that's up for debate.

Olive works unless he's disqualified for being filler only, or for being dead.

Including all of these, here's my list of strongest humans.

1: Gohan
2: Uub
3: Trunks
4: Goten
5: Pan
6: Olive
7: Tenshinhan
8: Kurillin
9: Yamcha
10: Chaotzu
11: Tao Pai Pai
12: Kamesennin
13: Grandpa Gohan
14: Ox King
15: Tsurusennin
16: Bora
17: Mr. Satan
18: Videl
19: ChiChi
20: Nam
21: King Chapa
22: Panput
19: Ranfan

Any weaker than this areen't worthy of mention. I imagine Bra would be somewhere on the list above Mr. Satan, but as she never fights, I have no idea where to put her. Goku Jr. And Vegita Jr. oughtta be on there as well, but again I have no idea where to put them. Even Gotenks would fit on this list, but I don't really consider him Human. Or Saiya-jin for that matter.

This list is bogus. Tsurusenmin is not weaker than the Ox King (love ya man but it's true), Videl is not weaker than Mark, ChiChi is not weaker than Videl or Mark Satan, Nam is not weaker than Satan. Where the fuck is Yajirobe?

[Titan]

He's the descendant of descendants of aliens. That doesn't scream "half-alien" to me, unless you assume the bloodline was kept pure until it reached Tenshinhan (or half-breeds only bred with other half-breeds), but that's not what the guides imply at all.

The guides only say that he descends from aliens, he could be 100% alien.
Tenshinhan is an Earthling so what is Gohan? Saiyajin or Earthling.

Ah, so it wasn't stated that Tenshinhan was more talented than Kuririn. I thought as much. Being impressed by someone stronger than you doesn't mean there is a huge gap. And even if there was, Kuririn was closing it.

I don't think Tenshinhan's battle power of 1830 needs explaining because it fits just fine.

Go read the manga, it was stated several times during the World tournaments, poor Kuririn needed tons of time to master Kamehameha while Tenshinhan, the prodigy did it after watching the technique once. Kame Sennin and Goku weren't talking about power, but, talent.

Actually, your line of flawed reasoning to show that Kuririn was closing the gap implies that Kuririn was also closing the gap with Gohan which means that after all, surprise surprise, Kuririn was better than Gohan as well. But, there is more,
if you take in account only the BP stated in the manga, Kuririn closed the gap with Piccolo as well.

Plus, i already showed how those Daizenshuu BP are inconsistent making all your argument invalid.

And I'm not going to take the anime into consideration. If we're taking non-manga material into consideration, then Kuririn is 100% confirmed to be the strongest anyway, with him being called the strongest Earthling and Tenshinhan being considered an Earthling in guidebooks.

You are taking into consideration what is convenient for your argument, as far i'm concerned Daizenshuu BP are not in the manga, therefore, they don't count for anything like the anime. You can't choose what you like and what you don't like.
Someone was saying that there wasn't any official source where Tenshinhan was considered stronger than Kuririn.
Unfortunately, the anime which is an official source, it shows that Tenshinhan was ahead in the Cell arc. That's all.

I'd like a source for Daimao's battle power of 201. I've never seen it anywhere.

I've seen it in a French magazine, if i'm not mistaken, but, probably, it is wrong. Regardless, Kami it was stated to have 220 and Old Piccolo certainly wasn't stronger than Kami. As you know, Popo said that Kami could have defeated old Daimaoh.

[Saiga]

First of all, I don't take into consideration what is convenient for my argument. I never take the anime into consideration - for me, I take the manga into consideration first, and then the Daizenshuu. I'm not picking and choosing what I want to support my argument - because I don't care who is stronger. I don't believe Kuririn is stronger because I like him more or want him to be stronger, I think he's stronger because the information that I choose to take in consideration (on all things) points to him being stronger.

And actually, people are completely free to choose what they like and don't like. Now, onto the rest of your post.

The guidebooks say Tenshinhan is an Earthling. He's listed as such in Daizenshuu 4. Gohan is a half-Saiyan.

And no, it's not stated, you're drawing conclusions. Those are different things. What I was looking for was an actual statement of "Tenshinhan is more skilled than Kuririn", not you saying "Tenshinhan did this, therefore it's stated that he's more skilled than Kuririn".

Err... I'm not following with your comments on my "apparently" flawed line of reasoning. If we go by the battle powers only in the manga, we can't tell who Kuririn was closing the gap with, since the post-training battle powers weren't given in the manga. And Kuririn closing the gap on Gohan? That doesn't make sense. He started out stronger than Gohan! There's no real problem with him closing the gap on Piccolo, either.

And no, your argument hasn't invalidated mine. Gohan's battle power given was from his Masenko, sure, but there's absolutely nothing suggesting that Tenshinhan's is taken from his Kikoho or that Piccolo's was taken from his Makankosappo-esque blast. I find it funny that you think he couldn't be so close to Nappa while thinking that small gaps can put one character way above the other, however...

And it's entirely possible that Kami wasn't more powerful than old Daimao, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

[Titan]

First of all, I don't take into consideration what is convenient for my argument. I never take the anime into consideration - for me, I take the manga into consideration first, and then the Daizenshuu. I'm not picking and choosing what I want to support my argument - because I don't care who is stronger. I don't believe Kuririn is stronger because I like him more or want him to be stronger, I think he's stronger because the information that I choose to take in consideration (on all things) points to him being stronger.
And actually, people are completely free to choose what they like and don't like. Now, onto the rest of your post.

You don't like Kuririn, but, you don't lose an opportunity to overrate him and bash everything that Tenshinhan did.

You say that you take the manga first and then the Daizenshuu, the problem is that i'm not obligated to follow
your preferences. The staff who made one of the Daizenshuus is the same who worked in the anime.
Actually, if i'm not mistaken, the same people who did Daizenshuu's BP were the same who worked in the anime.
Why would they put Tenshinhan above Kuririn around Cell's arc? That's something you should ask yourself.

I'm not arguing about who is stronger, i'm just stating the obvious, that is, Tenshinhan is stated to be more talented.

The guidebooks say Tenshinhan is an Earthling. He's listed as such in Daizenshuu 4. Gohan is a half-Saiyan.

There isn't detailed information about Tenshinhan's alien ancestry, yes, he is an Earthling like Piccolo who was born in the planet
Earth. You say that Gohan is half-Sayan, but, is he listed as an hybrid? What is Pan?

And no, it's not stated, you're drawing conclusions. Those are different things. What I was looking for was an actual statement of "Tenshinhan is more skilled than Kuririn", not you saying "Tenshinhan did this, therefore it's stated that he's more skilled than Kuririn".

No, i'm not drawing conclusions, you are the one playing with semantics.
When everyone says that Tenshinhan is a prodigy what are they trying to say?
If Tenshinhan is able to do things (related with skill) in a shorter period of time than Kuririn, it is obvious that he is more talented.
Nobody ever refers to Kuririn on those therms and Kuririn was around. It isn't like Kuririn was in the mountains alone while
Kame Sennin and Goku make those statements.

Err... I'm not following with your comments on my "apparently" flawed line of reasoning. If we go by the battle powers only in the manga, we can't tell who Kuririn was closing the gap with, since the post-training battle powers weren't given in the manga. And Kuririn closing the gap on Gohan? That doesn't make sense. He started out stronger than Gohan! There's no real problem with him closing the gap on Piccolo, either.

Wrong, when they are face to face with Nappa in the manga, Kuririn is given a BP of 1.083 while Piccolo has 1220. As you can see, using your logic Kuririn is closing the gap with Piccolo which is hilarious.
If you look at Gohan's enraged BP of 1,370 vs Raditz and later 2800 vs Nappa, it shows that Kuririn closed the gap as well.
You just need to apply your formula:
Krillin progressed from 206 to 1770 and Gohan from 1370 to 2800 which means that using percentages,
the difference between them became smaller.
There's no real problem with him closing the gap on Piccolo, either?
Now, you are saying that a human can progress faster than Nameks and half Sayans. Well, that goes against everything you've been saying on this board.

And no, your argument hasn't invalidated mine. Gohan's battle power given was from his Masenko, sure, but there's absolutely nothing suggesting that Tenshinhan's is taken from his Kikoho or that Piccolo's was taken from his Makankosappo-esque blast. I find it funny that you think he couldn't be so close to Nappa while thinking that small gaps can put one character way above the other, however...

And yes, it did. I've shown that Daizenshuu BP are inconsistent. Yamcha barely could get rid from a saibaman while Nappa
was playing with Piccolo.

Actually, you need to prove why Gohan is given a BP of 2800 based on an energy blast while the others don't.
You find a lot of things funny and that is great, but, it is obvious, that what you call small gaps in the early story were considered big,
plus, i'm just showing how power levels can be inconsistent.

And it's entirely possible that Kami wasn't more powerful than old Daimao, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

No it isn't, because, Kami said that he would have beaten Piccolo. Next, you will say that Drum who spanked Tenshinhan was stronger
than Kami as well which means that Goku or young Piccolo Daimaoh would have been able to kill Kami with a single kick.

[Saiga]

You don't like Kuririn, but, you don't lose an opportunity to overrate him and bash everything that Tenshinhan did.

I haven't been doing either of these? I especially don't see how I've been bashing Tenshinhan or what he's done. I'm not bashing here at all.

At this point, I don't think this discussion could continue to be civil much longer, if it even still is. So I think it's better to just agree to disagree.

[Titan]

You don't like Kuririn, but, you don't lose an opportunity to overrate him and bash everything that Tenshinhan did.

I haven't been doing either of these? I especially don't see how I've been bashing Tenshinhan or what he's done. I'm not bashing here at all.

At this point, I don't think this discussion could continue to be civil much longer, if it even still is. So I think it's better to just agree to disagree.

Ok, let's leave it.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The staff who made one of the Daizenshuus is the same who worked in the anime.
Actually, if i'm not mistaken, the same people who did Daizenshuu's BP were the same who worked in the anime.

Toei's involvement in the Daizenshuu was only for the anime-only stuff. So, no, they didn't work on the battle powers.