How strong would Vegetto be against Beerus?

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Re: How strong would Vegetto be against Beerus?

Postby Zephyr » Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:57 am

Goku's line can easily be interpreted as SSj God Goku > SSj Vegetto, I'll grant that. But to say that it entails SSj God Goku > SSj3 Vegetto, I would argue, is pushing it a bit. To assume this would be to assume that Vegetto himself is a predictable character in terms of power. An assumption which I think contradicts the very essence of his character.

Just my interpretation though.
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Re: How strong would Vegetto be against Beerus?

Postby hleV » Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:26 am

I still see a possibility that base Vegetto is over Beerus. If the statement that Beerus is the strongest in Z doesn't apply to Whis, it doesn't have to apply to Vegetto neither.

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Re: How strong would Vegetto be against Beerus?

Postby Zephyr » Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:46 am

hleV wrote:I still see a possibility that base Vegetto is over Beerus. If the statement that Beerus is the strongest in Z doesn't apply to Whis, it doesn't have to apply to Vegetto neither.


I'm not sure, I think that was meant to be more of "the strongest in Z who had already appeared".

The thing with Whis turning out to be more powerful seemed to be intentionally saved as a "twist" of sorts, which would have totally lost the effect if it had been told in the supplementary material before the film even aired.
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I'd count up who won what match, but it's pointless because Magetta didn't get to win a single one.

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Re: How strong would Vegetto be against Beerus?

Postby hleV » Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:57 am

Zephyr wrote:I'm not sure, I think that was meant to be more of "the strongest in Z who had already appeared".

It states what it states, I don't deal in theories on what it was or wasn't supposed to state.

Zephyr wrote:The thing with Whis turning out to be more powerful seemed to be intentionally saved as a "twist" of sorts, which would have totally lost the effect if it had been told in the supplementary material before the film even aired.

This doesn't excuse the wrong statement. If you leave a surprise at the end, don't make statements that would turn out wrong.

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Re: How strong would Vegetto be against Beerus?

Postby dario03 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:35 am

hleV wrote:I still see a possibility that base Vegetto is over Beerus. If the statement that Beerus is the strongest in Z doesn't apply to Whis, it doesn't have to apply to Vegetto neither.


Do we know for sure that Whis is stronger? Couldn't he just be close to as powerful and a better martial artist or trainer? I saw the end of the movie and don't recall them flat out saying hes stronger and the end scene could just be him being powered up more. I could of missed something but I don't recall them saying for sure who was stronger.

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Re: How strong would Vegetto be against Beerus?

Postby Super Vegetto » Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:41 am

dario03 wrote:
hleV wrote:I still see a possibility that base Vegetto is over Beerus. If the statement that Beerus is the strongest in Z doesn't apply to Whis, it doesn't have to apply to Vegetto neither.


Do we know for sure that Whis is stronger? Couldn't he just be close to as powerful and a better martial artist or trainer? I saw the end of the movie and don't recall them flat out saying hes stronger and the end scene could just be him being powered up more. I could of missed something but I don't recall them saying for sure who was stronger.


It seams that he is stronger. Just before Goku said something about Whis, Bills interrupted him. It's pretty obvious that he would say "So he is the strongest", or "So he is number 1".

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Re: How strong would Vegetto be against Beerus?

Postby dario03 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:48 am

Super Vegetto wrote:
dario03 wrote:
hleV wrote:I still see a possibility that base Vegetto is over Beerus. If the statement that Beerus is the strongest in Z doesn't apply to Whis, it doesn't have to apply to Vegetto neither.


Do we know for sure that Whis is stronger? Couldn't he just be close to as powerful and a better martial artist or trainer? I saw the end of the movie and don't recall them flat out saying hes stronger and the end scene could just be him being powered up more. I could of missed something but I don't recall them saying for sure who was stronger.


It seams that he is stronger. Just before Goku said something about Whis, Bills interrupted him. It's pretty obvious that he would say "So he is the strongest", or "So he is number 1".


Yeah I remember that, but that still doesn't tell us for sure who is stronger. Before that Goku says Bills is the strongest and Bills doesn't disagree, he just talks himself up and tells Goku that he(Goku) is the 2nd strongest that he has fought. So Whis might be stronger but he also might just be in between Goku and Bils.

Was there any official word from the movie makers?

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Re: How strong would Vegetto be against Beerus?

Postby DBZGTKOSDH » Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:15 am

According to Herms, Chozenshuu 4 confirms that Whis is the strongest.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: How strong would Vegetto be against Beerus?

Postby dbzfan7 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:49 am

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:Here's what Herms said.

Herms wrote:After becoming Super Saiyan God and fighting Beers a bit, Goku says he never knew there was a "realm" like this [the word here, sekai, means "world" or "realm" and is presumably being used metaphorically to mean a general level of power. For instance, during the Cell arc Trunks tells Kuririn about how Vegeta got super strong training in the RoSaT, but one day Trunks surpassed that "realm" by reaching the form we now call Super Saiyan Grade III. In the film, "realm" pops up again later when Beers says Goku has absorbed SSG's "realm" into his body, but more on that later. Goku's surprise at the "realm" of SSG could be taken to mean it's stronger than Vegetto (and any other form Goku's ever reached before), but maybe he's surprised that he got this strong without using a form of fusion. This is also the same movie where Mister Satan has to be told again about how Dende is God of Earth, so arguably Goku going "wow, never knew I could get this strong" isn't too conclusive].


Though not 100% conclusive it seems to me Goku never felt any power like this before. People say stuff like this all the time when referring to a new huge power.

Well, Herms said that before seeing the movie, so... I should better make a thread about it.


This was before? Even so he'd be basing his statements on what Kei said and I'd trust his analysis over fan subs that usually suck.
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Kaboom wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
Kaboom wrote:Because those things made them stronger than Goku (and Vegeta, but mostly Goku), and we simply can't allow that in modern, Toei-heralded Dragon Ball. Goku is bestest. Goku is supreme. Gotta ignore half the Majin Boo arc's events and rewrite the story even as we're telling it, all to make Goku the strongest.
But the thing is that Goku now in his base form is already stronger than anyone else. So why continue to omit those forms?
Because it's not enough for Goku to be made more special. Other characters have to be made less special in turn.

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Re: How strong would Vegetto be against Beerus?

Postby TheMightyOzaru » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:00 pm

hleV wrote:I still see a possibility that base Vegetto is over Beerus. If the statement that Beerus is the strongest in Z doesn't apply to Whis, it doesn't have to apply to Vegetto neither.

Again, there's another way to interpret that statement. History implies anything preceding Battle of Gods.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Re: How strong would Vegetto be against Beerus?

Postby KentalSSJ6 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:27 pm

I'm posting this for more or less comedic purposes, but still it brings up a good question.

How would Vegito fare in this form?

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Re: How strong would Vegetto be against Beerus?

Postby dbzfan7 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:42 pm

What the hell is that? Super Saiyan God 4?
RandomGuy96 wrote:"Sit down for five minutes to become the strongest person ever? Nah, I don't have time for that. Besides. There's only been, like, three alien invasions in the past few years."
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Kaboom wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
Kaboom wrote:Because those things made them stronger than Goku (and Vegeta, but mostly Goku), and we simply can't allow that in modern, Toei-heralded Dragon Ball. Goku is bestest. Goku is supreme. Gotta ignore half the Majin Boo arc's events and rewrite the story even as we're telling it, all to make Goku the strongest.
But the thing is that Goku now in his base form is already stronger than anyone else. So why continue to omit those forms?
Because it's not enough for Goku to be made more special. Other characters have to be made less special in turn.

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Re: How strong would Vegetto be against Beerus?

Postby TheMightyOzaru » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:49 pm

I'm assuming that's Ssj4. If so, Vegetto stomps Beers.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Re: How strong would Vegetto be against Beerus?

Postby KentalSSJ6 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:06 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:What the hell is that? Super Saiyan God 4?


Yep, SSJG4.

Essentially Vegito X Vegito X4000.

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Re: How strong would Vegetto be against Beerus?

Postby dbzfan7 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:10 pm

I think Vegetto would be so powerful he would be able to break through the fictional barrier and become a real being in our world. Then our universe would implode.
RandomGuy96 wrote:"Sit down for five minutes to become the strongest person ever? Nah, I don't have time for that. Besides. There's only been, like, three alien invasions in the past few years."
-faff Gohan

Kaboom wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
Kaboom wrote:Because those things made them stronger than Goku (and Vegeta, but mostly Goku), and we simply can't allow that in modern, Toei-heralded Dragon Ball. Goku is bestest. Goku is supreme. Gotta ignore half the Majin Boo arc's events and rewrite the story even as we're telling it, all to make Goku the strongest.
But the thing is that Goku now in his base form is already stronger than anyone else. So why continue to omit those forms?
Because it's not enough for Goku to be made more special. Other characters have to be made less special in turn.

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Re: How strong would Vegetto be against Beerus?

Postby KentalSSJ6 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:13 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:I think Vegetto would be so powerful he would be able to break through the fictional barrier and become a real being in our world. Then our universe would implode.


Thats a Gurren Lagann level of power.

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Re: How strong would Vegetto be against Beerus?

Postby dbzfan7 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:25 pm

KentalSSJ6 wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:I think Vegetto would be so powerful he would be able to break through the fictional barrier and become a real being in our world. Then our universe would implode.


Thats a Gurren Lagann level of power.


Gurren Lagann went into the real world and caused our universe to explode?
RandomGuy96 wrote:"Sit down for five minutes to become the strongest person ever? Nah, I don't have time for that. Besides. There's only been, like, three alien invasions in the past few years."
-faff Gohan

Kaboom wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
Kaboom wrote:Because those things made them stronger than Goku (and Vegeta, but mostly Goku), and we simply can't allow that in modern, Toei-heralded Dragon Ball. Goku is bestest. Goku is supreme. Gotta ignore half the Majin Boo arc's events and rewrite the story even as we're telling it, all to make Goku the strongest.
But the thing is that Goku now in his base form is already stronger than anyone else. So why continue to omit those forms?
Because it's not enough for Goku to be made more special. Other characters have to be made less special in turn.

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Re: How strong would Vegetto be against Beerus?

Postby KentalSSJ6 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:30 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:
KentalSSJ6 wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:I think Vegetto would be so powerful he would be able to break through the fictional barrier and become a real being in our world. Then our universe would implode.


Thats a Gurren Lagann level of power.


Gurren Lagann went into the real world and caused our universe to explode?


I wish.

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Re: How strong would Vegetto be against Beerus?

Postby dbzfan7 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:35 pm

KentalSSJ6 wrote:I wish.


Then we'd all be dead. What's wrong with you :P
RandomGuy96 wrote:"Sit down for five minutes to become the strongest person ever? Nah, I don't have time for that. Besides. There's only been, like, three alien invasions in the past few years."
-faff Gohan

Kaboom wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
Kaboom wrote:Because those things made them stronger than Goku (and Vegeta, but mostly Goku), and we simply can't allow that in modern, Toei-heralded Dragon Ball. Goku is bestest. Goku is supreme. Gotta ignore half the Majin Boo arc's events and rewrite the story even as we're telling it, all to make Goku the strongest.
But the thing is that Goku now in his base form is already stronger than anyone else. So why continue to omit those forms?
Because it's not enough for Goku to be made more special. Other characters have to be made less special in turn.

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Re: How strong would Vegetto be against Beerus?

Postby KentalSSJ6 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:38 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:
KentalSSJ6 wrote:I wish.


Then we'd all be dead. What's wrong with you :P


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