Chichi's training (or lack there of)

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:49 am

Specifically, why didn't Chichi do any combat training during the Saiyan arc?
She went to the 23rd tournament just to beat marriage out of Goku. Sure, she settled down and became a housewife shortly there after, but her husband kinda died, her son got kidnapped and everyone who knew anything about it was busy training for two mysterious enemies of doom on their way to Earth. That sounds like quite a lot of motivation for the woman who once fought her way through a whole block of preliminary fighters to pick up the axes and start practicing.

I doubt it would have helped much, if at all, and it's true that even filler leaves open the possibility that she actually did some training. But it does come across as strange that Chichi just rages from the sidelines the entire time when she knows what kind of trouble Gohan's in.
(If nothing else, she might have tried taking an axe to Vegeta's tail.)
She comes across as weaker than Roshi and her father in the anime, which I suppose is possible (not that she got in a good hit on Roshi as a kid, or anything...), which strikes me as something she would try to rectify as soon as she realized it would be a problem.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:14 am

That would be like Roshi starting to practice for the Saiyans. Good intentions but pointless. Fighters way more capable were already on the "job".

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:59 pm

rereboy wrote:That would be like Roshi starting to practice for the Saiyans. Good intentions but pointless. Fighters way more capable were already on the "job".

Like Chaozu and Yamcha!

Godo · Post by **Godo** » Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:22 pm

I for one would love Chi Chi becoming stronger, and mastering the Kaio-ken. She would fight alongside Goku, or as a support.
This could lead to awesome "Beaten by a woman! Argh!" moments and Chi Chi being a sexy badass.

FoolsGil · Post by **FoolsGil** » Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:41 pm

Considering the Saiyan Saga was a massacre, it wouldn't have mattered if Chi Chi or Master Roshi helped or not. Everyone was fodder for Nappa. A couple extra bodies wouldn't have hurt none, except maybe with Chi Chi being killed by Nappa would finally cause Gohan to tap into that power Piccolo predicted early on.

Godo · Post by **Godo** » Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:57 pm

FoolsGil wrote:Considering the Saiyan Saga was a massacre, it wouldn't have mattered if Chi Chi or Master Roshi helped or not. Everyone was fodder for Nappa. A couple extra bodies wouldn't have hurt none, except maybe with Chi Chi being killed by Nappa would finally cause Gohan to tap into that power Piccolo predicted early on.

Well, Piccolo's tactic where he, Gohan and Kuririn tried to off Nappa could have worked if Chi Chi was there to yell at Gohan for being such a wuss.

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:21 pm

Rocketman wrote:
rereboy wrote:That would be like Roshi starting to practice for the Saiyans. Good intentions but pointless. Fighters way more capable were already on the "job".
Like Chaozu and Yamcha!

Both of them were still way more useful than Chi Chi.

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:21 pm

Rocketman wrote:
rereboy wrote:That would be like Roshi starting to practice for the Saiyans. Good intentions but pointless. Fighters way more capable were already on the "job".
Like Chaozu and Yamcha!

Both of them were still way more useful than Chi Chi.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:22 pm

Rocketman wrote:
rereboy wrote:That would be like Roshi starting to practice for the Saiyans. Good intentions but pointless. Fighters way more capable were already on the "job".
Like Chaozu and Yamcha!

Yamcha was able to become somewhat stronger than Raditz and he wasn't that far behind the others from the start. That's not useless for the kind of power they expected from the Saiyans. Chaotzu is kind of useless but Tenshinhan probably couldn't talk him out of it. In the android saga he was able to talk him out of going.

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:29 pm

Even after all the training, Yamcha was still weaker than Raditz.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:51 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:Even after all the training, Yamcha was still weaker than Raditz.

No, he proved that he was superior to an opponent stated to have the same power as Raditz.

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:52 pm

rereboy wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:Even after all the training, Yamcha was still weaker than Raditz.
No, he proved that he was superior to an opponent stated to have the same power as Raditz.

No, he didn't.

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:51 pm

I would've liked to have seen her continue training (actually I'd have liked to have seen her been the swordswoman of the cast; that throw-a-way gag-panel where she threatens Kamesennin using one as a weapon was cool) though I feel even if she did, the power gap between Goku and the rest of the cast was already getting to the point where she wouldn't have made nearly as much impact as I'd have liked to have seen.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:04 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:
rereboy wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:Even after all the training, Yamcha was still weaker than Raditz.
No, he proved that he was superior to an opponent stated to have the same power as Raditz.
No, he didn't.

...

- His opponent is stated to have a power equal to Raditz.

- Yamcha, in just a few seconds, made his opponent kiss the ground with no apparent difficulty.

- His opponent, noticing that he had no chance of winning against Yamcha, uses his last strength and resorts to self-destructing himself at point blank range just to end up with a draw, and even that wouldn't have worked if Yamcha had kept his attention focused.

- Self-destruct attacks are shown to be used in Dragon Ball multiple times as a desperation move when the opponent is superior.

And you are arguing that Yamcha wasn't shown to be superior? Ok...

(Btw, Tenshinhan's opponent also got up in the end... He just didn't think about trying to self-destruct himself along with Tenshinhan because Vegeta hadn't killed any of them to make clear that they would not survive if they lost. And then Vegeta killed him. You also believe that Tenshinhan wasn't shown to be superior, then?)

Post by **Kaboom** » Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:44 pm

The Saibaimen have power that rivals Raditz, not that's exactly equal to him, and Toriyama himself has written that they're somewhat weaker than him. Yamcha has almost exactly the same power as Raditz when he pwns a Saibaiman one-on-one.

Yamcha: 1480
Raditz: 1500
Saibaimen: ~1200

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:46 pm

- His opponent is stated to have a power equal to Raditz.

As Kaboom said: no, he isn't.

FoolsGil · Post by **FoolsGil** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:11 am

...I thought Raditz pl was 1200. In the manga Nappa says that in alarm after Tenshinhan beats his Saibaman.

Saiga · Post by **Saiga** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:18 am

Well, that's the Viz version, and that makes two mistakes. First by saying the Saibaiman are over 1,200 and second by saying they're equal to Raditz.

From Herms' strength checker:

8. Saibaimen [#SA2#BAI]
Chapter: 215 (DBZ 21), P1.3
Context: after Tenshinhan beats a Saibaiman
Nappa: “"I'm-impossible...!! The Saibaiman's battle power is 1,200...!! Going just by power, he rivals Raditz...!!"
Vegeta: “So [Tenshinhan]'s battle power surpasses that. A simple calculation.”

Rivaling doesn't mean to be equal. Given Toriyama's memo, Raditz must be superior to the Saibaiman. And with his battle power of 1,500 he's also superior to Yamcha at the time.

Post by **Kaboom** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:33 am

In the link for the Saibaimen I provided, it's explained. The Japanese term used there doesn't necessarily mean "equal" in a strictly mathematical sense. It more means "close to" or "on-par with."

goku the krump dancer · Post by **goku the krump dancer** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:47 am

You know, I think it'd be pretty cool to see the Son family fight Vegeta together. The Mother, Father, son trio vs the Prince of all Saiyans.

Kanzenshuu

Chichi's training (or lack there of)

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