The All-Purpose "What-If " Thread

[Berserker1921]

What if Gohan got involved in the Future Trunks Arc? How strong would he have become?

Gohan would have been stronger then trunks. Gohan is technically and potentially the most powerful z warrior. If he gave a damn and actually trained with Whis.

Now, what do you think he would've actually done?

He would have been a useful ally to the group. But Gohan was still suffering from what I call "more power, more cocky". He would have acted like he did against cell and buu. Simply playing with his food. However Black would become stronger by this or would merge with Zamasu.

But we could see Vegito and Gohunks vs M. Zamasu. Which would be cool.

[Polyphase Avatron]

What if one of the participants in the Tournament of Power deliberately tried to get themselves killed in order to disqualify an enemy team's fighter?

[Ki Breaker]

What if Gohan didn't have his huge potential, but ChiChi wasn't opposed to getting him trained..

[Noah]

What if Gohan didn't have his huge potential, but ChiChi wasn't opposed to getting him trained..

Well, I guess he would be far weaker than everyone else, probably only above the earthlings and with no trump card in the Android arc, Goku would try to use the Genkidama on Cell, but it would probably fail and everyone would die.

[hunduel]

Sorry for the late response, it has been a somewhat busy week for me. Again, feel free to ask/quote directly me and I'll answer your what if questions, probably even longer if I find it interesting.

1) Thank you very much, Hunduel!

2) What if following the Cell Games, but before Future Trunks' departure from the present, Vegeta and Gohan had decided to accompany Future Trunks to the future?

3) What if in the battle between Super Saiyan 3 Goku and Kid Buu, in the very beginning of their confrontation on the Sacred Planet of the Supreme Kais, Goku had his tail returned to him?

1. No problem.

2. I think Vegeta would have destroyed Android 18 just to make his ego feel better, and would have an interesting meeting with Future Bulma, while Gohan would probably meet with Future Chi-Chi too to make her feel better. However, I wonder if them travelling back would cause a butterfly effect and they may have to fight with someone too (something similar to Super Android 13 could have happened, for example).

3. I'm not an expert at GT, but if I remember well the tail allowed him to control his ki and energy better, so he'd probably use SSJ3 in a more consistent way without losing too much energy just at keeping the form up. I'm not sure if it allowed him to defeat Kid Buu, but would have a much bigger chance for sure.

So what if Fusion never exist (No Namek fusion and any other type of fusion)? How would Toriyama find a way for Goku and the others to defeat powerful enemies like Freeza, Cell, Buu and Zamasu? I could see Toriyama having Piccolo learn Kaioken seeing how he did train on North Kaio's planet.

Then Toriyama would have introduced Tag Team attacks, where two (or more) people have to perform two specific attacks to combine them into a much bigger attack. For example, Goku and Vegeta are standing next to each other so closely like they do in the Return of Cooler movie, and if Goku performs a Kamehameha Wave, while Vegeta doing the Final Flash, it could have been combined into a Final Kamehameha.

What if Goku got the Ultra Instinct when was about to fight Freeza on Namek? That skill would be enough for him to defeat Freeza no matter the power gap between them?

I actually think Ultra Instinct is not based on multipliers but it is a "fixed amount of level" they provide. That's why the gap between SSBKKx20 and UI can be so huge.

What if Goku used KKx20 on top of his SSJ form during his fight with Cell?

He could only win if he did it while doing the IT Kamehameha, because it would probably exhaust him too much.

What if Gohan got involved in the Future Trunks Arc? How strong would he have become?

He could probably be ToP level by that time if he'd trained enough. But he's still far beyond the God tiers, though.

1) What if Goku had never lost control of himself as a Great Ape?

2) What if Gohan's rage boosts were permanent?

3) What if Goten had learned Ultra Instinct when Super Buu had killed Chi-Chi and became immune to being absorbed by the Majin?

4) What if Pan had went with Goku and Uub at the end of Dragon Ball Z? How would this have changed Dragon Ball GT?

1. Then Grandpa Gohan would be alive and would be a much bigger motivation for him than Roshi was. The dynamic between the two olds could have been more interesting too. Also one of the saiyans killing Grandpa Gohan could have trigger something inside Goku, like a canon Pseudo Super Saiyan transformation.

2. Like a Zenkai boost? He'd probably be extremely relevant in the earlier sagas, like being able to beat Raditz (even if Goku still dies somehow), and more importantly, defeat Nappa without a problem. The Namek Saga would be the first one where he'd have been a background character, as his boost would still be not enough to beat the Ginyu Force.

3. In my interpretation, he'd probably be able to beat him easily. However, even just the ability of not being able to be absorbed could have been really interesting, as it opens the possible Potara fusion of Goku and Goten.

4. Again, not a GT expert, but she'd probably still not be relevant enough... but he'd achieve SS for sure.

What if one of the participants in the Tournament of Power deliberately tried to get themselves killed in order to disqualify an enemy team's fighter?

Then we'd have a literal Suicide Squad

What if Gohan didn't have his huge potential, but ChiChi wasn't opposed to getting him trained..

In this case, he'd be a Goku clone. If anything, Goku's the greatest example of low potential but a huge force of will and incredible amount of training.

[Dragon Ball Gus]

What if Gohan got involved in the Future Trunks Arc? How strong would he have become?

He could probably be ToP level by that time if he'd trained enough. But he's still far beyond the God tiers, though.

What makes him beyond God tiers?

[hunduel]

What if Gohan got involved in the Future Trunks Arc? How strong would he have become?

He could probably be ToP level by that time if he'd trained enough. But he's still far beyond the God tiers, though.

What makes him beyond God tiers?

The way Divine ki works. While I know that the manga and the anime has some differences, especially in power scaling, but the way they've handled Gods and Divine ki is really similar how they are doing with in the manga recently. Not only it has many advantages over the original ki, but also the way it can be used and the potential of it is way beyond mortal levels. Even the person with the most potential is no match for the GoD and warriors on that level. But here's the thing. In the anime, Black, Zamasu and even their Fusion were way stronger than in the anime, so if we follow that canon, someone like Gohan would have been no match for them even with their fullest potential. Even people in the God Tier, who are fairly trained for a longer period had trouble there. In the manga scenario, however, if Gohan could have reached his Buu Saga's strength, he would probably be a very useful warrior in that scenario.

Does it mean that he would have no rule at all? Not at all.

Remember, at that particular scenario, anyone was helpful. Mirai characters, Bulma, Vegeta, Goku. There were no "filler" characters, even M. Yajirobe contributed in his part. Because of it, even if he was not on the level of Gods (and Divine ki users), he definitely would have a role even in the anime if his training was on par with the other characters'. Also, Gohan is smart and if he is prepared, he can utilize techniques and fighting styles like no one else can. Heck, if anything, they may actually would have been able to seal Zamasu with the Mafuba if Gohan was travelling with them.

[Steven Bloodriver]

He could probably be ToP level by that time if he'd trained enough. But he's still far beyond the God tiers, though.

What makes him beyond God tiers?

The way Divine ki works. While I know that the manga and the anime has some differences, especially in power scaling, but the way they've handled Gods and Divine ki is really similar how they are doing with in the manga recently. Not only it has many advantages over the original ki, but also the way it can be used and the potential of it is way beyond mortal levels. Even the person with the most potential is no match for the GoD and warriors on that level. But here's the thing. In the anime, Black, Zamasu and even their Fusion were way stronger than in the anime, so if we follow that canon, someone like Gohan would have been no match for them even with their fullest potential. Even people in the God Tier, who are fairly trained for a longer period had trouble there. In the manga scenario, however, if Gohan could have reached his Buu Saga's strength, he would probably be a very useful warrior in that scenario.

Does it mean that he would have no rule at all? Not at all.

Remember, at that particular scenario, anyone was helpful. Mirai characters, Bulma, Vegeta, Goku. There were no "filler" characters, even M. Yajirobe contributed in his part. Because of it, even if he was not on the level of Gods (and Divine ki users), he definitely would have a role even in the anime if his training was on par with the other characters'. Also, Gohan is smart and if he is prepared, he can utilize techniques and fighting styles like no one else can. Heck, if anything, they may actually would have been able to seal Zamasu with the Mafuba if Gohan was travelling with them.

1) What if the Kaioken had no disadvantages and Goku could raise it to 30 times?

2) What if the charge time for the Spirit Bomb was instantaneous?

3) What if Super Saiyan 2 was equal in power to Super Saiyan 3?

4) What if Goten was born at the same time as Gohan?

[Berserker1921]

What makes him beyond God tiers?

The way Divine ki works. While I know that the manga and the anime has some differences, especially in power scaling, but the way they've handled Gods and Divine ki is really similar how they are doing with in the manga recently. Not only it has many advantages over the original ki, but also the way it can be used and the potential of it is way beyond mortal levels. Even the person with the most potential is no match for the GoD and warriors on that level. But here's the thing. In the anime, Black, Zamasu and even their Fusion were way stronger than in the anime, so if we follow that canon, someone like Gohan would have been no match for them even with their fullest potential. Even people in the God Tier, who are fairly trained for a longer period had trouble there. In the manga scenario, however, if Gohan could have reached his Buu Saga's strength, he would probably be a very useful warrior in that scenario.

Does it mean that he would have no rule at all? Not at all.

Remember, at that particular scenario, anyone was helpful. Mirai characters, Bulma, Vegeta, Goku. There were no "filler" characters, even M. Yajirobe contributed in his part. Because of it, even if he was not on the level of Gods (and Divine ki users), he definitely would have a role even in the anime if his training was on par with the other characters'. Also, Gohan is smart and if he is prepared, he can utilize techniques and fighting styles like no one else can. Heck, if anything, they may actually would have been able to seal Zamasu with the Mafuba if Gohan was travelling with them.

1) What if the Kaioken had no disadvantages and Goku could raise it to 30 times?

2) What if the charge time for the Spirit Bomb was instantaneous?

3) What if Super Saiyan 2 was equal in power to Super Saiyan 3?

4) What if Goten was born at the same time as Gohan?

1. Goku would use the form all the time. Added to his super saiyan. A lot of problems in z and super would have been solved. Saved for maybe Jiren.

2. It wouldn't matter. Well it might have against buu. But if goku has no stamina. Then it is worthless.

3. Isn't sort of is now? I mean vegeta and trunks are as strong or stronger as 2's then Goku is as a ssj 3. I see ssj3 as a mutation of 2. An ultra grade 3 for 2. Lots of power but very little stamina.

4. One of them would have been Goku's kid or it would have been the same for both of them. I imagine chichi would strike the whip on both of them, to study more. And some events would have been a little easier for the Z crew.

[apex_pretador]

What if Goku used KKx20 on top of his SSJ form during his fight with Cell?

He vaporizes cell with a massive one-handed kamehameha and dies due to loss of stamina.

The rest plays the same except Gohan is a SS1 in the 25th TB, and the long haired form Goku achieved is then termed as SS2.

The only problem I see is the Dabura fight, but it can be explained as Gohan never having lost any power because he wasn't rusty at all.



Against Beerus, he will stack KaioKen x20 on the top of SS2 (SS3) and still get finger-flicked.


Other than that, doesn't change much.

[Steven Bloodriver]

The way Divine ki works. While I know that the manga and the anime has some differences, especially in power scaling, but the way they've handled Gods and Divine ki is really similar how they are doing with in the manga recently. Not only it has many advantages over the original ki, but also the way it can be used and the potential of it is way beyond mortal levels. Even the person with the most potential is no match for the GoD and warriors on that level. But here's the thing. In the anime, Black, Zamasu and even their Fusion were way stronger than in the anime, so if we follow that canon, someone like Gohan would have been no match for them even with their fullest potential. Even people in the God Tier, who are fairly trained for a longer period had trouble there. In the manga scenario, however, if Gohan could have reached his Buu Saga's strength, he would probably be a very useful warrior in that scenario.

Does it mean that he would have no rule at all? Not at all.

Remember, at that particular scenario, anyone was helpful. Mirai characters, Bulma, Vegeta, Goku. There were no "filler" characters, even M. Yajirobe contributed in his part. Because of it, even if he was not on the level of Gods (and Divine ki users), he definitely would have a role even in the anime if his training was on par with the other characters'. Also, Gohan is smart and if he is prepared, he can utilize techniques and fighting styles like no one else can. Heck, if anything, they may actually would have been able to seal Zamasu with the Mafuba if Gohan was travelling with them.

1) What if the Kaioken had no disadvantages and Goku could raise it to 30 times?

2) What if the charge time for the Spirit Bomb was instantaneous?

3) What if Super Saiyan 2 was equal in power to Super Saiyan 3?

4) What if Goten was born at the same time as Gohan?

1. Goku would use the form all the time. Added to his super saiyan. A lot of problems in z and super would have been solved. Saved for maybe Jiren.

2. It wouldn't matter. Well it might have against buu. But if goku has no stamina. Then it is worthless.

3. Isn't sort of is now? I mean vegeta and trunks are as strong or stronger as 2's then Goku is as a ssj 3. I see ssj3 as a mutation of 2. An ultra grade 3 for 2. Lots of power but very little stamina.

4. One of them would have been Goku's kid or it would have been the same for both of them. I imagine chichi would strike the whip on both of them, to study more. And some events would have been a little easier for the Z crew.

5) What if in Dragon Ball GT, Emperor Pilaf had wished for Goku to become a woman?

6) What if in Dragon Ball Z: The Tree of Might, Goku had transformed into a Super Saiyan when he was being stepped on by Turles?

7) What if in Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods, Goku had been training under Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki for the 4 years before Beerus woke up?

[spoiler] What if in Dragon Ball GT, as a result of Kibito Kai not arriving on time, Ultra Instinct "Omen" had been achieved by Goku upon him taking the brunt of the Revenge Death Ball and walking from it with all of his energy reserves replenished for half an hour?

9) What if in Dragon Ball Z: The History of Trunks, Future Trunks was born as strong as 100% Frieza and as skilled as Madara Uchiha?[/spoiler]

[miguelnuva1]

What if Goku used KKx20 on top of his SSJ form during his fight with Cell?

He vaporizes cell with a massive one-handed kamehameha and dies due to loss of stamina.

The rest plays the same except Gohan is a SS1 in the 25th TB, and the long haired form Goku achieved is then termed as SS2.

The only problem I see is the Dabura fight, but it can be explained as Gohan never having lost any power because he wasn't rusty at all.

Goku can't unlock ssj3 without ssj2, therefore the long hair form would still be ssj3.

Vegeta would get beat by ssj2 goku and Buy is never released.

Against Beerus, he will stack KaioKen x20 on the top of SS2 (SS3) and still get finger-flicked.


Other than that, doesn't change much.

[hunduel]

1) What if the Kaioken had no disadvantages and Goku could raise it to 30 times?

2) What if the charge time for the Spirit Bomb was instantaneous?

3) What if Super Saiyan 2 was equal in power to Super Saiyan 3?

4) What if Goten was born at the same time as Gohan?

5) What if in Dragon Ball GT, Emperor Pilaf had wished for Goku to become a woman?

6) What if in Dragon Ball Z: The Tree of Might, Goku had transformed into a Super Saiyan when he was being stepped on by Turles?

7) What if in Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods, Goku had been training under Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki for the 4 years before Beerus woke up?

1. Most of the battles could have been decided with SSJ (and its various forms) stacked with Kaioken, with the exception of Beerus. That one would went the same way as it was originally for sure. I don't think any of the battles would have went different with probably the exception of Cell. There're two different scenarios for him.

- The first is that he realizes how wrong he was, releases both Androids (as with the Zenkai boost he received, he can retain his perfect form without the androids) and would probably be an anti-hero similar to Vegeta was in Namek saga. His addition in the Buu saga would have been an interesting twist: he could have been the motivation for Gohan to still train once in a while, and also he being one of the last survivors would make an interesting twist in the events, like stalling Buu for a while. Also him temporarily absorbing the Androids to fight Cell could have been an interesting twist, and would fit the overall theme of "perfect warriors" introduced by Fusion. Of course, he'd still be absorbed, but at least he'd have some screen time. The problem would be that Goku was not at the Otherworld, so no fusion for Goten and Trunks (in fact, he *could* replace them, as Potara would still find a way into this alternate timeline).
- The second one is a way more simple solution: being a sore loser just like he did against Gohan, and all the events would have went out just like originally.

2. I don't think it would have changed that much, but it would definitely be used more, as its biggest disadvantage would disappear.

3. Cell would have been killed because the power gap would have been much bigger and couldn't handle Gohan's full power, Buu would have been awakened earlier (as it provides much more energy, so absorbing a SSJ2 Gohan was more than enough), Gotenks would be able to maintain the fusion as it doesn't take as much energy as SSJ3. Now the question is: would SSJ3 still happen in this what if scenario? If so, then an even stronger (but somewhat failed) transformation would have been more than enough to defeat Buu once and for all. But if SSJ3 was like a "Grade" for SSJ2, then it would be completely irrelevant, even more than it is now.

4. I optimistically think that this would mean that if they were twins, Gohan would have been reached in the way Chi Chi wanted to raise their children, while Goten could have been trained by Goku as much as he wanted to, especially based on their personalities. I think it means that Goten would simply replace Gohan in each scenario, while Gohan would be a support character similar to Bulma.

5. Then SSJ4 transformation would have happened only once per month... joke aside, I think (aside from personal conflicts in their private life), nothing would have changed power level wise. As I previously said, I'm not really familiar with GT, but a FemGoku-Vegeta based Gogeta would have been really interesting, to say the least.

6. Now that's a really hard question for one reason: because of the timeline. If the movies are their own timelines, this would mean that reaching Super Saiyan would be not as easy as it was canonically (as we saw it in Revenge of Cooler), but by the time Lord Slug appears, it would replace False Super Saiyan completely.

However, if that movie and only that one is applied to the Present Timeline's canon, then by the time they go to Namek, Goku would have a much easier time against any of the opponents. Thanks to the Zenkai boost he received previously, if he does the same amount of traning (or even better, much more) than he did originally, he'd probably reach the same amount of power level he did when he fought against Frieza, but now he has the upper hand by having Super Saiyan.

Combining it with your first scenario, all the enemies would have been a piece of cake by now

7. I don't watch Naruto so I cannot answer this one.

[Dragon Ball Gus]

What if Future Trunks was in the Tournament of Power, and replaced Tenshinhan?

[Noah]

What if Future Trunks was in the Tournament of Power, and replaced Tenshinhan?

Well, we can only say Universe 7 chances of winning increases a bit.

[hunduel]

What if Future Trunks was in the Tournament of Power, and replaced Tenshinhan?

Universe 7 would have a more reliable team member who'd still be in the tournament. Also it'd be interesting to see him without his sword.

But the thing is, he has not only some interesting techniques, but his transformation is somewhat unique and if he could obtain it, he'd probably be able to handle the top tier guys (not god tier ones) in the tournament for sure. Also he's more like Gohan in the aspect of getting shit done, so he wouldn't even mind things like fusion if it meant they could win.

[miguelnuva1]

What if Kale and Caulifla were sent to Earth with Goku as a Baby and Cabba grew up with Vegeta.

[Dragon Ball Gus]

This is one of Masakox's What ifs, but I wanna get you guys' perspectives on this. What if Raditz turned good? Would he have helped the Z Fighters fight Vegeta and Nappa? Would he eventually become a Super Saiyan? Would he and Goku/Kakarot bond well as brothers? Would he have hooked up with Launch? (Ooh)

[TobyS]

What if Future Trunks was in the Tournament of Power, and replaced Tenshinhan?

Everyone on Universe 7 is taken down by the sniper.

It might have been horribly written, conveyed and with mediocre animation. But "Word of God" via the narration is the sniper was a serious threat and Beerus was happy with Ten's performance, implicitly happy with the trade of Ten for the sniper.

[TobyS]

What if Kale and Caulifla were sent to Earth with Goku as a Baby and Cabba grew up with Vegeta.

Cabba becomes a prick or is killed by Vegeta,

Because there's three earth bound saiyans they probably beat someone that would have been to strong for one of them without having to train. Then die to the next one.

E.g. they manage to beat Taopaipai but then die to Piccolo, or they beat Piccolo but then are too weak for Raditz etc. Maybe they beat Raditz but no one dies which means no one is trained enough to fight Vegeta.