A Saiyan's Transformation Tree

SuperSayanJim · Post by **SuperSayanJim** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:06 am

Hello Guys,

Long time reader, first time "topic creator". I've been taking some time to "study" all the saiyan transformation "timeline" and how it processes, and I have a graph i've created that would love to discuss with you guys / girls. Please bear in mind that i've taken in consideration the whole universe of dragon ball, so "movie / game only transformations" are taken in consideration. I've also separated some of the transformations in a way i see fit within context.

Darkprince410 · Post by **Darkprince410** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:18 am

Given the nature of the forms, Super Saiya-jin God Super Saiya-jin should be linked to both Super Saiya-jin and Super Saiya-jin God rather than being something solely along the Ssj God line.

In addition, Golden Oozaru should be connected to Oozaru and Super Saiya-jin, and then Ssj4 should branch off that.

SuperSayanJim · Post by **SuperSayanJim** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:06 am

I believe you may have misunderstood the case here. I'm trying to separate the "transformation" lines across the different transformations we've got so far. I agree that golden monkey should be connected to SSJ, but it's still an "upgrade" to the Ozaru transformation tree, not the regular saiyan. The same happens with SSJGSSJ

Hitiro · Post by **Hitiro** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:19 am

SuperSayanJim wrote:I believe you may have misunderstood the case here. I'm trying to separate the "transformation" lines across the different transformations we've got so far. I agree that golden monkey should be connected to SSJ, but it's still an "upgrade" to the Ozaru transformation tree, not the regular saiyan. The same happens with SSJGSSJ

But in both scenarios the regular SSJ is required. So they must form a link somehow.

SuperSayanJim · Post by **SuperSayanJim** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:15 pm

Hitiro wrote:
SuperSayanJim wrote:I believe you may have misunderstood the case here. I'm trying to separate the "transformation" lines across the different transformations we've got so far. I agree that golden monkey should be connected to SSJ, but it's still an "upgrade" to the Ozaru transformation tree, not the regular saiyan. The same happens with SSJGSSJ
But in both scenarios the regular SSJ is required. So they must form a link somehow.

I've got an idea. I'll take care of it. Cheers

fadeddreams5 · Post by **fadeddreams5** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:22 pm

Also, Broly always becomes SSJ before going LSSJ, so they're also linked. And if you want to add LSSJ3, then LSSJ4 might as well be added too. >.>

SuperSayanJim · Post by **SuperSayanJim** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:54 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote:Also, Broly always becomes SSJ before going LSSJ, so they're also linked. And if you want to add LSSJ3, then LSSJ4 might as well be added too. >.>

I may do that later as we correct it, but can you comment on the new version?

Spoiler:

Hitiro · Post by **Hitiro** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 1:22 pm

SuperSayanJim wrote:
fadeddreams5 wrote:Also, Broly always becomes SSJ before going LSSJ, so they're also linked. And if you want to add LSSJ3, then LSSJ4 might as well be added too. >.>
I may do that later as we correct it, but can you comment on the new version?

Spoiler:

Close. But the SSJGod side should look like the Ozaru side. Move the SSJGod up and have SSJ linking directly to SSJGSSJ, like it does with Golden Ozaru. SSJ is not a requirement for regular SSJGod. Also I would just have the SSJ4 extending from Golden Ozaru, while Golden Ozaru needs SSJ. SSJ4 doesn't need it too.

SuperSayanJim · Post by **SuperSayanJim** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:24 pm

Just got a new version up and running, hope you guys enjoy this one a little more as I want this to be a "guide" for all the saiyan transformations and an easy way to understand the "line".

Bacon Skittles · Post by **Bacon Skittles** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:31 pm

Corrected version. Using "new" transformations from Dragon Ball Online as well. Super Saiyan God does not transform into Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. A "Saiyan Beyond God" transforms into SSGSS. SSG is more of a temporary power up. Once a Saiyan masters SSG, their base form becomes Saiyan Beyond God. Also you have Legendary Super Saiyan to be implying to transform into LGSS4 when really a Legendary Golden Oozaru is required. Also 2nd/3rd Grade SS does not transform into Super Saiyan 3. Broly's transformations (except for standard Super Saiyan) are all Legendary variants of the standard SS forms.

While I didn't put it on the chart, the Funimation Dub of GT says that Super Saiyan 5 could be possible. I'm not sure if this is in the original Japanese version so I left it out. If it is in the original Japanese, my bet is that Gogeta may actually be Super Saiyan 5 since the color of his fur is different than Goku and Vegeta's.

SuperSayanJim · Post by **SuperSayanJim** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:36 pm

Bacon Skittles wrote:Corrected version. Using "new" transformations from Dragon Ball Online as well. Super Saiyan God does not transform into Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. A "Saiyan Beyond God" transforms into SSGSS. SSG is more of a temporary power up. Once a Saiyan masters SSG, their base form becomes Saiyan Beyond God. Also you have Legendary Super Saiyan to be implying to transform into LGSS4 when really a Legendary Golden Oozaru is required. Also 2nd/3rd Grade SS does not transform into Super Saiyan 3.

While I didn't put it on the chart, the Funimation Dub of GT says that Super Saiyan 5 could be possible. I'm not sure if this is in the original Japanese version so I left it out. If it is in the original Japanese, my bet is that Gogeta may actually be Super Saiyan 5 since the color of his fur is different than Goku and Vegeta's.

That one is way to tricky for my tastes

Bacon Skittles · Post by **Bacon Skittles** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:40 pm

Not to get into fan fic territory, but I would imagine that there are "more forms" to this. The original Super Saiyan God had a tail. It could be possible for there to even be something of a Super Saiyan God Golden Oozaru of sorts, along with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan #. To make it even further, Broly could achieve Super Saiyan God (highly unlikely) and could achieve Super Saiyan God Legendary Super Saiyan. However GT and the new movies are not in the same canon. Though I could see Dragon Ball Heroes utilizing some of these forms since it seems to be a combination of all canons.

Hitiro · Post by **Hitiro** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:49 pm

Bacon Skittles wrote:Corrected version. Using "new" transformations from Dragon Ball Online as well. Super Saiyan God does not transform into Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. A "Saiyan Beyond God" transforms into SSGSS. SSG is more of a temporary power up. Once a Saiyan masters SSG, their base form becomes Saiyan Beyond God. Also you have Legendary Super Saiyan to be implying to transform into LGSS4 when really a Legendary Golden Oozaru is required. Also 2nd/3rd Grade SS does not transform into Super Saiyan 3. Broly's transformations (except for standard Super Saiyan) are all Legendary variants of the standard SS forms.

While I didn't put it on the chart, the Funimation Dub of GT says that Super Saiyan 5 could be possible. I'm not sure if this is in the original Japanese version so I left it out. If it is in the original Japanese, my bet is that Gogeta may actually be Super Saiyan 5 since the color of his fur is different than Goku and Vegeta's.

If you're going to do it like this then you'd be better off doing it in a web-like format with Base Saiyan being the centre. Because that looks messy as hell.

Low Tone G · Post by **Low Tone G** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:22 pm

If i were you, I'd insert the Saiyan Beyond God state after Super Saiyan God

Saiyan ---------------------------------> Super Saiyan
->Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan
----------> Super Saiyan God -> Saiyan Beyond God

Cetra · Post by **Cetra** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:25 pm

fadeddreams5 · Post by **fadeddreams5** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:29 pm

Low Tone G wrote:If i were you, I'd insert the Saiyan Beyond God state after Super Saiyan God

Saiyan ---------------------------------> Super Saiyan
->Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan
----------> Super Saiyan God -> Saiyan Beyond God

Eh. I wouldn't.

Saiyan Beyond God is a term invented by Heroes and isn't really a transformation; it's just the base form of Goku and Vegeta after absorbing SSJG. No different than getting a super zenkai in the Namek saga.

supercat · Post by **supercat** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:31 pm

I'm going to have to agree with Hitiro, Base Saiyan should be in the center with the other transformations branching out accordingly. Coherently conveying the process is crucial here.

Low Tone G · Post by **Low Tone G** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:52 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote:
Low Tone G wrote:If i were you, I'd insert the Saiyan Beyond God state after Super Saiyan God

Saiyan ---------------------------------> Super Saiyan
->Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan
----------> Super Saiyan God -> Saiyan Beyond God
Eh. I wouldn't.

Saiyan Beyond God is a term invented by Heroes and isn't really a transformation; it's just the base form of Goku and Vegeta after absorbing SSJG. No different than getting a super zenkai in the Namek saga.

But a Super Saiyan God becomes a Saiyan Beyond God if he can absorb its power. Even though it isn't really different from the Saiyan's Base form, it's a different state(it may have God Ki too - it's still vague). I'm not sure that Toriyama intended, but it has some of aura which is slightly more dense than the Base aura(the Base aura in the manga is not even present) and it's milky fog-like.

Bacon Skittles · Post by **Bacon Skittles** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:26 pm

Cetra wrote:

There's zero evidence that Super Saiyan 4 is tied with Super Saiyan God forms. GT is non-canon.

Hitiro · Post by **Hitiro** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:24 pm

Cetra wrote:snip

The actual dialogue from the movie says Pure-hearted Saiyan's. Not SSJ's. They did go SSJ when making Goku a SSJGod but being a SSJ apparently isn't a prerequisite for making a SSJGod. According to Shenlong anyway.

Kanzenshuu

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