Vegetto "possibly" stronger than SSJ4?

[LowRyder2005]

I'm in the boat of those who don't inflate too much for GT, Super Saiyan Goku being in-between his old SS2 and SS3 selves, Rilldo being stronger than Good Buu but weaker than Fat Buu. And of course, I have Super Baby Vegeta stronger than Buuhan because there's really no room for other interpretations.

In GT goku never belittle/ mocking his opponent by lying so Goku stated their weakest form will be very out of his character where in GT goku's indeed a respectfull fighter.
If he stated mr. boo it's the same he was lying and mocking him at the same time. So that's not possible.

This feels like a very forced outlook.
Mr. Buu was still one of the most powerful beings in the universe and even in GT he was most likely stronger than Pan and Trunks, hence the danger for them of hanging around Rilldo.

[GTX]

I'm in the boat of those who don't inflate too much for GT, Super Saiyan Goku being in-between his old SS2 and SS3 selves, Rilldo being stronger than Good Buu but weaker than Fat Buu. And of course, I have Super Baby Vegeta stronger than Buuhan because there's really no room for other interpretations.

In GT goku never belittle/ mocking his opponent by lying so Goku stated their weakest form will be very out of his character where in GT goku's indeed a respectfull fighter.
If he stated mr. boo it's the same he was lying and mocking him at the same time. So that's not possible.

This feels like a very forced outlook.
Mr. Buu was still one of the most powerful beings in the universe and even in GT he was most likely stronger than Pan and Trunks, hence the danger for them of hanging around Rilldo.

It is not forced if you watched GT and pan and trunks already much stronger mostly than that boo. I don't care about this discussion but if you want to quote people don't cut people post like that. That's annoying.

In GT goku never belittle/ mocking his opponent by lying so Goku stated their weakest form will be very out of his character where in GT goku's indeed a respectfull fighter.
Espescially in this context and scene because there is no possibility neither any reason for Goku to state mr, boo when he was praising rildo strength. This is also not the only time goku has praised opponent strenght in GT.

If he stated mr. boo it's the same he was lying and mocking him at the same time. So that's not possible.
The next reason that boohan was stated because it will be very weird if mr boo was stated, the reason's because we must make an assumption/s that mr boo was never training during the time gap where even android seventeen has trained a lot . SO The statement would be very unclear, even pan has trained very hard too and it would make pan stronger than boo. Assuming other fighter doesn't train is stupid assumption and would make power level comparation a mess. I'm too lazy to explain it.

It is stupid to be explained and resposted again because it's clear with the statement of no other being stronger than baby, including any vegeto forms would make this not even a discussion. Oh well whatever

[LowRyder2005]

First off, I feel the need to stress that quoting the relevant part of a post is actually supposed to be out of courtesy: it's done to let the original quoter understand what the other person is specifically referring in the preceding post. Secondly, there's nothing proving definitely that Trunks and Pan are above Majin Buu - even without taking into account GT's wonky power scale.

Regarding the first phrase, let's just say that mileage may vary. To me your idea that referring to Mr. Buu was the same as "belittling" Rilldo and that it was "out of character" for Goku doesn't make much sense (to use an euphemism) for reasons stated above; but hey, that's the great about personal opinions, right? They come in all shapes and sizes.

[Darkprince410]

It is stupid to be explained and resposted again because it's clear with the statement of no other being stronger than baby, including any vegeto forms would make this not even a discussion. Oh well whatever

The thing with Goku's statement about him not having sensed anyone stronger than Bebi is that he's made that same kind of statement before and it exclude the power he has personally experienced. In movie 12, he readily states that Janemba's fat form has a level of ki higher than anything he's ever sensed before, yet he turned around and showed he was readily more powerful than Janemba's fat form while using Ssj3. Thus, he excluded himself from his statement, and thus there be precedence for him to be excluding what he experienced as Vegetto.

Nothing given to us within the context of GT counters that Goku could have been referring to Mr. Buu when he compared Rild's strength to Buu, as context would make most sense for him to be referring to the one form of Buu that Trunks would know best (15 years of knowing Mr. Buu vs. barely 2 days of knowing any other) and Pan not knowing any other Buu at all. Thus, Goku can still be under his Buu arc Ssj3 form in terms of power and still be more powerful than Rild's first form while in his base.

[GTX]

It is stupid to be explained and resposted again because it's clear with the statement of no other being stronger than baby, including any vegeto forms would make this not even a discussion. Oh well whatever

The thing with Goku's statement about him not having sensed anyone stronger than Bebi is that he's made that same kind of statement before and it exclude the power he has personally experienced. In movie 12, he readily states that Janemba's fat form has a level of ki higher than anything he's ever sensed before, yet he turned around and showed he was readily more powerful than Janemba's fat form while using Ssj3. Thus, he excluded himself from his statement, and thus there be precedence for him to be excluding what he experienced as Vegetto.

Nothing given to us within the context of GT counters that Goku could have been referring to Mr. Buu when he compared Rild's strength to Buu, as context would make most sense for him to be referring to the one form of Buu that Trunks would know best (15 years of knowing Mr. Buu vs. barely 2 days of knowing any other) and Pan not knowing any other Buu at all. Thus, Goku can still be under his Buu arc Ssj3 form in terms of power and still be more powerful than Rild's first form while in his base.

That's very stupid reasoning because you're neglecting and contradicting both LOGIC AND LANGUAGE just because one stupid scene in the movie and you yourself are assuming it with your own biased and flawed logic as something like that. You don't even understand japanese, That's called pure delusion and not even a fact. Oh well whatever.
Goku can feel his ki in GT everytime. Goku can even gauge how many left that ( any type skill ) he can shoot or perform anytime and anywhere in whole GT series. Saying goku cannot feel his ki it's very stupid because i think that's obvious and goes without saying. Even human don't know how long his stamina will last. Yet goku knew precisely how much remain that his ki now like seeing an MP or HP bar So goku precisely know his strength his ki or whatever.
Since the beginning goku always pictured under or covered by his ki. IF this ki that is his own and touched by him everyday everytime since he was children actually cannot be felt by him logically it's very stupid or impossible if he can feel ANY other BEING ( NOT ONLY PEOPLE )ki instead, even at another planet and can even differentiate it too

[Analytic]

Nothing given to us within the context of GT counters that Goku could have been referring to Mr. Buu when he compared Rild's strength to Buu

Rild being stronger than Gohan certainly contradicts the notion of Rild being comparable to Mr. Boo. Unless five years of training makes you significantly weaker...

[Darkprince410]

That's very stupid reasoning because you're neglecting and contradicting both LOGIC AND LANGUAGE just because one stupid scene in the movie and you yourself are assuming it with your own biased and flawed logic as something like that. You don't even understand japanese, That's called pure delusion and not even a fact. Oh well whatever.

Why do I need to understand Japanese when it's a scene readily and officially translated? This is the official translation of Goku's statement to Paikuhan about what he's sensing from Janemba's fat form as it appears on the DVD for movie 12.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Goku: "I ain't ever felt a ki as incredible as that!"

Compare that to the statement that Goku made regarding Bebi Vegeta's ki.

Goku: "It's true! I've never felt a Ki as awesome as this! This really may turn out to be the last sight I take with me into the next world..."

Practically the exact same wording, just with "incredible" instead of "awesome". Why then is Goku allowed to make that statement about Janemba, and it be shown later that he was ignoring his own strength when making the statement (given that he easily decimated and believed he killed Janemba with Ssj3), but then, despite saying virtually the same thing, does he have to be including himself and what he's personally experienced (vs. what he is feeling from others). Movie 12 gives us clear precedence that, even though he said that about Bebi Vegeta, it doesn't have to be in relation to what he has personally experienced.

Nothing given to us within the context of GT counters that Goku could have been referring to Mr. Buu when he compared Rild's strength to Buu

Rild being stronger than Gohan certainly contradicts the notion of Rild being comparable to Mr. Boo. Unless five years of training makes you significantly weaker...

Given that Toriyama had established that, during those ten years between the Buu arc and the 28th Budoukai, Gohan had stopped training (and this would have been the continuity that GT would have followed, since it was also pre-Super), then even though Gohan trained those five years, he would have still lost power during the ten year gap following the Buu arc.

[Analytic]

Given that Toriyama had established that, during those ten years between the Buu arc and the 28th Budoukai, Gohan had stopped training (and this would have been the continuity that GT would have followed, since it was also pre-Super), then even though Gohan trained those five years, he would have still lost power during the ten year gap following the Buu arc.

Given that seven years of slacking didn't make Gohan lose too much power (he was a lot weaker but it's not like he was multiple times weaker), I have a hard time believing that ten years of slacking and five years of training would make Gohan go from significantly stronger than Evil Boo to even weaker than Mr. Boo.

I also question the logic behind the GT Perfect Files going out of their way to mention that Gohan continued his training when the intent was for him to be weaker. Seems rather contradictory to me.

[GTX]

That's very stupid reasoning because you're neglecting and contradicting both LOGIC AND LANGUAGE just because one stupid scene in the movie and you yourself are assuming it with your own biased and flawed logic as something like that. You don't even understand japanese, That's called pure delusion and not even a fact. Oh well whatever.

Why do I need to understand Japanese when it's a scene readily and officially translated? This is the official translation of Goku's statement to Paikuhan about what he's sensing from Janemba's fat form as it appears on the DVD for movie 12.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Goku: "I ain't ever felt a ki as incredible as that!"

Compare that to the statement that Goku made regarding Bebi Vegeta's ki.

Goku: "It's true! I've never felt a Ki as awesome as this! This really may turn out to be the last sight I take with me into the next world..."

Practically the exact same wording, just with "incredible" instead of "awesome". Why then is Goku allowed to make that statement about Janemba, and it be shown later that he was ignoring his own strength when making the statement (given that he easily decimated and believed he killed Janemba with Ssj3), but then, despite saying virtually the same thing, does he have to be including himself and what he's personally experienced (vs. what he is feeling from others). Movie 12 gives us clear precedence that, even though he said that about Bebi Vegeta, it doesn't have to be in relation to what he has personally experienced.

Nothing given to us within the context of GT counters that Goku could have been referring to Mr. Buu when he compared Rild's strength to Buu

Rild being stronger than Gohan certainly contradicts the notion of Rild being comparable to Mr. Boo. Unless five years of training makes you significantly weaker...

Given that Toriyama had established that, during those ten years between the Buu arc and the 28th Budoukai, Gohan had stopped training (and this would have been the continuity that GT would have followed, since it was also pre-Super), then even though Gohan trained those five years, he would have still lost power during the ten year gap following the Buu arc.

You are really stupid, your post nothing more than shitpost this posting prove it. This is a troll posting.
That's not even the same word. Janemba first form is a fatty a very huge GIANT FATTY. Eventhough he has strong ki but he's a fatty a very big fatty that even has hard time to move or even walking. Is this even need to be pointed and goku mostly would not win but he won because super saiyan 3 glitch in hell, off course. If goku was alive goku cannot even use super saiyan 3 without losing too much on stamina very quick let alone winning anything.
Ok disregarding this is non canon movie, Your posting annoy me because i know you have no set standard of logic regarding this matter.
You're just trying make a loophole and argue for the sake of arguing.
The 2 scene are not even the same but you forced people to take into account those scene are the same.
Eventhough in GT goku can stomp rildo alone but in the non canon movie goku lost to janemba and need to settle with gogeta.
Clearly janemba first form is a giant snorlax with very lacks on agility and baby body is full a fledged strong fighter body so super saiyan 3 glitch can take advantage of it.
Those 2 scene clearly different level of situation yet you're thinking this is the same
The last one i repeat about the glitch on super saiyan 3.
I know this is a troll posting and understabd why you doesn't speak your logic because you clearly understand if you have any set of logic standard you cannot even state that goku was winning against janemba because goku was actually indeed lost to janemba and need to resort using GOGETA unlike GT goku who stomp rildo very easily. Yes regardless the situation you will lose argument that's why you don't have any set of logic or reasoning.
I'm bored with this stupid trolling statement. That's because this is clearly very different situation.

[Kaboom]

Board warning(s) issued. Let's try to keep this discussion friendly so we can keep having it at all.

[GTX]

I deserved it but i know this is need to be said. Nothing personal and no offense.

[Darkprince410]

You are really stupid, your post nothing more than shitpost this posting prove it. This is a troll posting.
That's not even the same word. Janemba first form is a fatty a very huge GIANT FATTY. Eventhough he has strong ki but he's a fatty a very big fatty that even has hard time to move or even walking. Is this even need to be pointed and goku mostly would not win but he won because super saiyan 3 glitch in hell, off course. If goku was alive goku cannot even use super saiyan 3 without losing too much on stamina very quick let alone winning anything.
Ok disregarding this is non canon movie, Your posting annoy me because i know you have no set standard of logic regarding this matter.
You're just trying make a loophole and argue for the sake of arguing.
The 2 scene are not even the same but you forced people to take into account those scene are the same.
Eventhough in GT goku can stomp rildo alone but in the non canon movie goku lost to janemba and need to settle with gogeta.
Clearly janemba first form is a giant snorlax with very lacks on agility and baby body is full a fledged strong fighter body so super saiyan 3 glitch can take advantage of it.
Those 2 scene clearly different level of situation yet you're thinking this is the same
The last one i repeat about the glitch on super saiyan 3.
I know this is a troll posting and understabd why you doesn't speak your logic because you clearly understand if you have any set of logic standard you cannot even state that goku was winning against janemba because goku was actually indeed lost to janemba and need to resort using GOGETA unlike GT goku who stomp rildo very easily. Yes regardless the situation you will lose argument that's why you don't have any set of logic or reasoning.
I'm bored with this stupid trolling statement. That's because this is clearly very different situation.

First off, the insults and bashing are uncalled for. Whether you agree with my statements or not, there's no need for that kind of backlash.

Goku did not lose to the form of Janemba that he made that statement about. He made that statement regarding Janemba's fat form, and readily defeated that fat form. The Ssj3 "glitch", as you want to call it, wouldn't have mattered in this case, as we readily saw that Goku could hold Ssj3 for a decent length of time while in his living body, more than the length of time it took for him to defeat Janemba.

Nothing about Goku's line about Rild contradicts the notion that it could simply be about Mr. Buu, as he's not being specific about what form of Buu he's talking about, and the context of who he's telling that to would most reasonably fit if he were referring to Mr. Buu. Likewise, as shown regarding movie 12 (the same "canonicity" as GT), Goku's line about Bebi Vegeta being the strongest he ever "felt" has precedence to be ignoring what he (Goku) personally experienced.

[GTX]

You are really stupid, your post nothing more than shitpost this posting prove it. This is a troll posting.
That's not even the same word. Janemba first form is a fatty a very huge GIANT FATTY. Eventhough he has strong ki but he's a fatty a very big fatty that even has hard time to move or even walking. Is this even need to be pointed and goku mostly would not win but he won because super saiyan 3 glitch in hell, off course. If goku was alive goku cannot even use super saiyan 3 without losing too much on stamina very quick let alone winning anything.
Ok disregarding this is non canon movie, Your posting annoy me because i know you have no set standard of logic regarding this matter.
You're just trying make a loophole and argue for the sake of arguing.
The 2 scene are not even the same but you forced people to take into account those scene are the same.
Eventhough in GT goku can stomp rildo alone but in the non canon movie goku lost to janemba and need to settle with gogeta.
Clearly janemba first form is a giant snorlax with very lacks on agility and baby body is full a fledged strong fighter body so super saiyan 3 glitch can take advantage of it.
Those 2 scene clearly different level of situation yet you're thinking this is the same
The last one i repeat about the glitch on super saiyan 3.
I know this is a troll posting and understabd why you doesn't speak your logic because you clearly understand if you have any set of logic standard you cannot even state that goku was winning against janemba because goku was actually indeed lost to janemba and need to resort using GOGETA unlike GT goku who stomp rildo very easily. Yes regardless the situation you will lose argument that's why you don't have any set of logic or reasoning.
I'm bored with this stupid trolling statement. That's because this is clearly very different situation.

First off, the insults and bashing are uncalled for. Whether you agree with my statements or not, there's no need for that kind of backlash.

Goku did not lose to the form of Janemba that he made that statement about. He made that statement regarding Janemba's fat form, and readily defeated that fat form. The Ssj3 "glitch", as you want to call it, wouldn't have mattered in this case, as we readily saw that Goku could hold Ssj3 for a decent length of time while in his living body, more than the length of time it took for him to defeat Janemba.

Nothing about Goku's line about Rild contradicts the notion that it could simply be about Mr. Buu, as he's not being specific about what form of Buu he's talking about, and the context of who he's telling that to would most reasonably fit if he were referring to Mr. Buu. Likewise, as shown regarding movie 12 (the same "canonicity" as GT), Goku's line about Bebi Vegeta being the strongest he ever "felt" has precedence to be ignoring what he (Goku) personally experienced.

Your reasoning are very unreliable to begin with. Actually you don't have single base as reasoning. All your reasoning are flawed and cannot even be hold as evidence. Actually the best action is to ignore your reasoning because it''s baseless and cannot be even considered as proof.

There are actually tons of reasoning that your reasoning flaw and i don't even have any will to post in this posting.
No the bashing because i understand you're actually won't make any statement and let people do all the work thinking what you're actually implying and that's stupid.
You cannot say the statement of baby are wrong because some random non sense because baby statement is clear and fact. Your reasoning is just baseless or mere assumption at best.
2. janemba first form may be just a shell or his armor the 2nd form actually HIS TRUE FORM nothing else. Did goku state his ki more powerfull than before ? No.
3. Goku not winning anything he was actually losing mostly. there is no proof that janemba was hurt or dying he maybe just playing around knowing he can kill goku anytime.
4. Janemba just slow. He was actually strong but that form is an armor and armor is not for attacking but defense
5 KI was stronger doesn't mean he can win by being slow ass and not hitting anyting.
6. people has stamina, weakness, defense, agility. all those matter
7. those 2 scene are clearly different.
8. Goku clearly state in GT he know he would lose and that is clear
THE POINT IS YOUR ARGUMENT ARE VERY FLAWED AND DOESN'T WORTH MENTIONING. That is an assumption at best and a cherry picking worth nothing.
You don't even give statement or reasoning to make your reasoning is a valid proof.
Those are 2 different case and you cannot even prove it's the same case. From the field ( hell), super saiyan3 etc
I don't really care about this argument but if you don't want to state your reasoning or logic still being as passive as it don't quote me.
You admit it or not your reasoning just an assumption at best and doesn't prove anything. the fact is that 2 thing are different and not even related at all .
I was taking this bait and this is over i don't want to waste anymore time.
You can state whatever you want. i don't care and No offense to anyone.

[Gog]

You are really stupid, your post nothing more than shitpost this posting prove it. This is a troll posting.
That's not even the same word. Janemba first form is a fatty a very huge GIANT FATTY. Eventhough he has strong ki but he's a fatty a very big fatty that even has hard time to move or even walking. Is this even need to be pointed and goku mostly would not win but he won because super saiyan 3 glitch in hell, off course. If goku was alive goku cannot even use super saiyan 3 without losing too much on stamina very quick let alone winning anything.
Ok disregarding this is non canon movie, Your posting annoy me because i know you have no set standard of logic regarding this matter.
You're just trying make a loophole and argue for the sake of arguing.
The 2 scene are not even the same but you forced people to take into account those scene are the same.
Eventhough in GT goku can stomp rildo alone but in the non canon movie goku lost to janemba and need to settle with gogeta.
Clearly janemba first form is a giant snorlax with very lacks on agility and baby body is full a fledged strong fighter body so super saiyan 3 glitch can take advantage of it.
Those 2 scene clearly different level of situation yet you're thinking this is the same
The last one i repeat about the glitch on super saiyan 3.
I know this is a troll posting and understabd why you doesn't speak your logic because you clearly understand if you have any set of logic standard you cannot even state that goku was winning against janemba because goku was actually indeed lost to janemba and need to resort using GOGETA unlike GT goku who stomp rildo very easily. Yes regardless the situation you will lose argument that's why you don't have any set of logic or reasoning.
I'm bored with this stupid trolling statement. That's because this is clearly very different situation.

First off, the insults and bashing are uncalled for. Whether you agree with my statements or not, there's no need for that kind of backlash.

Goku did not lose to the form of Janemba that he made that statement about. He made that statement regarding Janemba's fat form, and readily defeated that fat form. The Ssj3 "glitch", as you want to call it, wouldn't have mattered in this case, as we readily saw that Goku could hold Ssj3 for a decent length of time while in his living body, more than the length of time it took for him to defeat Janemba.

Nothing about Goku's line about Rild contradicts the notion that it could simply be about Mr. Buu, as he's not being specific about what form of Buu he's talking about, and the context of who he's telling that to would most reasonably fit if he were referring to Mr. Buu. Likewise, as shown regarding movie 12 (the same "canonicity" as GT), Goku's line about Bebi Vegeta being the strongest he ever "felt" has precedence to be ignoring what he (Goku) personally experienced.

Your reasoning are very unreliable to begin with. Actually you don't have single base as reasoning. All your reasoning are flawed and cannot even be hold as evidence. Actually the best action is to ignore your reasoning because it''s baseless and cannot be even considered as proof.

There are actually tons of reasoning that your reasoning flaw and i don't even have any will to post in this posting.
No the bashing because i understand you're actually won't make any statement and let people do all the work thinking what you're actually implying and that's stupid.
You cannot say the statement of baby are wrong because some random non sense because baby statement is clear. Your reasoning is just baseless at best
2. janemba first form may be just a shelll or his armor the 2nd form actually HIS TRUE FORM nothing else
3. Goku not winning anything he was actually losing mostly. there is no proof that janemba was hurt or dying he maybe just playing around knowing he can kill goku anytime.
4. Janemba just slow. He was actually strong but that form is an armor and armor is not for attacking but defense
5 KI was stronger doesn't mean he can win by being slow ass and not hitting anyting.
6. people has stamina, weakness, defense, agility. all those matter
7. those 2 scene are clearly different.
8. Goku clearly state in GT he know he would lose and that is clear
THE POINT IS YOUR ARGUMENT ARE VERY FLAWED AND DOESN'T WORTH MENTIONING. That is an assumption at best and cherry picking worth nothing.
You don't even give statement or reasoning to make your reasoning is a valid proof.
Those are 2 different case and you cannot even proof it's the same case. From the field ( hell) super saiyan3
I don't really care about this argument but if you don't want to state your reasoning don't need to quote me.
You admit it or not your reasoning just an assumption the fact is that 2 thing are different and not even related at all .

Um , I don't want to be the guy who tells you to fix up you grammar. But, it would be nice for you to actually know basic grammar as it would not only help get your point across, it would also make you look better as well. Also don't insult and bash Dark Prince, that's uncalled for and don't try to justify it as well.

[GTX]

First off, the insults and bashing are uncalled for. Whether you agree with my statements or not, there's no need for that kind of backlash.

Goku did not lose to the form of Janemba that he made that statement about. He made that statement regarding Janemba's fat form, and readily defeated that fat form. The Ssj3 "glitch", as you want to call it, wouldn't have mattered in this case, as we readily saw that Goku could hold Ssj3 for a decent length of time while in his living body, more than the length of time it took for him to defeat Janemba.

Nothing about Goku's line about Rild contradicts the notion that it could simply be about Mr. Buu, as he's not being specific about what form of Buu he's talking about, and the context of who he's telling that to would most reasonably fit if he were referring to Mr. Buu. Likewise, as shown regarding movie 12 (the same "canonicity" as GT), Goku's line about Bebi Vegeta being the strongest he ever "felt" has precedence to be ignoring what he (Goku) personally experienced.

Your reasoning are very unreliable to begin with. Actually you don't have single base as reasoning. All your reasoning are flawed and cannot even be hold as evidence. Actually the best action is to ignore your reasoning because it''s baseless and cannot be even considered as proof.

There are actually tons of reasoning that your reasoning flaw and i don't even have any will to post in this posting.
No the bashing because i understand you're actually won't make any statement and let people do all the work thinking what you're actually implying and that's stupid.
You cannot say the statement of baby are wrong because some random non sense because baby statement is clear. Your reasoning is just baseless at best
2. janemba first form may be just a shelll or his armor the 2nd form actually HIS TRUE FORM nothing else
3. Goku not winning anything he was actually losing mostly. there is no proof that janemba was hurt or dying he maybe just playing around knowing he can kill goku anytime.
4. Janemba just slow. He was actually strong but that form is an armor and armor is not for attacking but defense
5 KI was stronger doesn't mean he can win by being slow ass and not hitting anyting.
6. people has stamina, weakness, defense, agility. all those matter
7. those 2 scene are clearly different.
8. Goku clearly state in GT he know he would lose and that is clear
THE POINT IS YOUR ARGUMENT ARE VERY FLAWED AND DOESN'T WORTH MENTIONING. That is an assumption at best and cherry picking worth nothing.
You don't even give statement or reasoning to make your reasoning is a valid proof.
Those are 2 different case and you cannot even proof it's the same case. From the field ( hell) super saiyan3
I don't really care about this argument but if you don't want to state your reasoning don't need to quote me.
You admit it or not your reasoning just an assumption the fact is that 2 thing are different and not even related at all .

Um , I don't want to be the guy who tells you to fix up you grammar. But, it would be nice for you to actually know basic grammar as it would not only help get your point across, it would also make you look better as well. Also don't insult and bash Dark Prince, that's uncalled for and don't try to justify it as well.

THE POINT IS I gave a FACT he gave me ONLY an assumption. So that's it, nothing else matter.
I haven't sleep for almost 24 hours so pardon my grammar.
I need to stay awake for a reason.

[Gog]

Your reasoning are very unreliable to begin with. Actually you don't have single base as reasoning. All your reasoning are flawed and cannot even be hold as evidence. Actually the best action is to ignore your reasoning because it''s baseless and cannot be even considered as proof.

There are actually tons of reasoning that your reasoning flaw and i don't even have any will to post in this posting.
No the bashing because i understand you're actually won't make any statement and let people do all the work thinking what you're actually implying and that's stupid.
You cannot say the statement of baby are wrong because some random non sense because baby statement is clear. Your reasoning is just baseless at best
2. janemba first form may be just a shelll or his armor the 2nd form actually HIS TRUE FORM nothing else
3. Goku not winning anything he was actually losing mostly. there is no proof that janemba was hurt or dying he maybe just playing around knowing he can kill goku anytime.
4. Janemba just slow. He was actually strong but that form is an armor and armor is not for attacking but defense
5 KI was stronger doesn't mean he can win by being slow ass and not hitting anyting.
6. people has stamina, weakness, defense, agility. all those matter
7. those 2 scene are clearly different.
8. Goku clearly state in GT he know he would lose and that is clear
THE POINT IS YOUR ARGUMENT ARE VERY FLAWED AND DOESN'T WORTH MENTIONING. That is an assumption at best and cherry picking worth nothing.
You don't even give statement or reasoning to make your reasoning is a valid proof.
Those are 2 different case and you cannot even proof it's the same case. From the field ( hell) super saiyan3
I don't really care about this argument but if you don't want to state your reasoning don't need to quote me.
You admit it or not your reasoning just an assumption the fact is that 2 thing are different and not even related at all .

Um , I don't want to be the guy who tells you to fix up you grammar. But, it would be nice for you to actually know basic grammar as it would not only help get your point across, it would also make you look better as well. Also don't insult and bash Dark Prince, that's uncalled for and don't try to justify it as well.

THE POINT IS I gave a FACT he gave me ONLY an assumption. So that's it, nothing else matter.
I haven't sleep for almost 24 hours so pardon my grammar.
I need to stay awake for a reason.

That's still no excuse to insult him.
Also haven't slept for twenty four hours? Man that's sounds insane

[TheUltimateNinja]

If that's how you're going to interpret those statements, you'll also have to take into account Rild saying Goku wasn't even using half his power when he went SSJ, implying that SSJ's multiplier is only ~2.5-3x.

[Darkprince410]

If that's how you're going to interpret those statements, you'll also have to take into account Rild saying Goku wasn't even using half his power when he went SSJ, implying that SSJ's multiplier is only ~2.5-3x.

1/50th is still less than 1/2, so there's nothing inherently saying that the multiplier is that low, just that it's more than simply double Goku's battle power.

[Analytic]

If that's how you're going to interpret those statements, you'll also have to take into account Rild saying Goku wasn't even using half his power when he went SSJ, implying that SSJ's multiplier is only ~2.5-3x.

1/50th is still less than 1/2, so there's nothing inherently saying that the multiplier is that low, just that it's more than simply double Goku's battle power.

Seems like an extreme understatement if it's still supposed to be 50x.

[TheUltimateNinja]

If that's how you're going to interpret those statements, you'll also have to take into account Rild saying Goku wasn't even using half his power when he went SSJ, implying that SSJ's multiplier is only ~2.5-3x.

1/50th is still less than 1/2, so there's nothing inherently saying that the multiplier is that low, just that it's more than simply double Goku's battle power.

Seems like an extreme understatement if it's still supposed to be 50x.

Exactly. Generally characters get a lot more specific about power boosts when they mention specific amounts. The anime version of Z has Frieza mentioning less than a third, less than half, less than three quarters and finally he calls out his current percentage when he powers up to max, he also does most of these in the manga version. Of course Frieza is somewhat unique here since it's pretty rare for people to use exact percentages, but even in Super (Manga) Whis mentions that Vegeta wasn't even able to muster 10% of his strength.

For example, when Piccolo said he wasn't even using half his power against Goku we could interpret that to mean he was 10x stronger, but if he had such an advantage he would surely let us know.

Furthermore, this works better with the Super Vegetto ~ SSJ4 statement since if Goku is Buu tier in base, SSJ4 is probably a smaller multiplier like 500x.

And Toei has a history of greatly boosting characters' base forms and nerfing their SSJs. Except in Cooler's Revenge, SSJ gives a pretty pathetic boost in most Toei movies.