Why Is Chaozu Seen As A Z Fighter By The Cell Arc To Some?

[Adrian Malacoda]

Isn't "Z-fighter" a dub term FUNimation came up with? Do they ever say that in the Japanese version?

"Z Warrior" or "Z Fighter" (Z戦士) is used in the original Japanese, but only out-of-universe (e.g. episode titles and narration). e.g. episode 107, "Son Goku Survived — The Z Warriors Are All Resurrected!!" It is, of course, never used in the manga (where there is no "Z"), the equivalent term being "Dragon Team" (ドラゴンチーム) e.g. chapter 23, "The Dragon Team Parts Ways"

The Funimation dub AFAIK uses it more often than the original version, though, and there's at least one instance in said dub of a character referring to himself as a "Z Fighter" (Gohan, in a dream sequence during the ROSAT training). But, in the original version, Z Fighter/Dragon Team is never used in-universe, which is personally why I don't consider Chiaotzu during the Cell Arc - or indeed any character in any arc - as a "Z Fighter" - because there's no such thing, in my mind.

But, going along with the concept of "Z Fighters," since the title of episode 107 mentions them being resurrected - and Chiaotzu happens to be among those resurrected - it would seem to suggest that Chiaotzu is in fact a "Z Fighter." AFAIK there's no notion in the series (from an out of universe perspective) of "Z Fighter" membership being conditional on being active in fights, so it would stand to reason that he remains a "Z Fighter" even now.

[MondoCool]

After the Saiyan Saga, I've always looked at Chaozu as useless unless the enemy doesn't matter - ie a non-threat. I still consider him a "Z-Fighter" I guess (though I've honestly not really put too much thought into the wording) because he is a good guy and is, technically, a fighter, but I don't think there is a real "Z-Fighter" thing going on anymore. I think all it ever was, was a marketing strategy.

[In Brightest Day]

I mean he doesn't even help out against the Cyborgs and Cell, and even before that Tenshinhan told him to stay behind during the fight with the Saiyans. Yajirobe is way more useful and notable and he doesn't even fight after the Vegeta fight either. Not to mention it honestly surprised me how forgettable he was in the Manga.

Does anyone actually view him as a Z-Fighter though? Basically, Chaozu is to Tenshinhan what Puar is to Yamcha. As soon as his brief rivalry with Krillin fizzled out, Chaozu moved into a background role in the same vein as Oolong, Gyumao, etc. and was generally less useful than Tien, Yamcha and Krillin.

[DBZ Macky]

I've always found it interesting that Chiaotzu appeared in the big page (I think it's the chapter where Androids #19 and #20 debuted) with all the characters from the Androids Arc yet he doesn't appear again in the Manga until much, much later.
At least in the Anime we see him at Kame House sometimes.

[TheZFighter]

I find this an odd thing to be concerned about personally but...

Chaozu had always been classed as a Z Fighter beforehand, albeit not the most effective, and he'd trained along with the rest of the Z Fighters for three years with the intention of him facing the eventual Android threat. Alright, it was agreed that he was too far off the pace and should stay behind, but I see that as no reason why he should no longer be classed as a part of the group. Same applies for the Cell Arc.

[Israelite Wolfman]

He shows up here with the rest of the gang:


That's always made me feel that he was "important" still, for some reason.

This image here. I do wonder if Toriyama originally planned for Chaozu to be in the Cell saga but at the last second couldn't come up with ANYTHING for him to do and just dropped him from the lineup.

He's still with the other Z fighters flying through the air next to Shenron in Super's opening. Really at this point Master Roshi should be replacing him.

I was always disappointed at Toriyama for taking out Chiaotzu so lightly, I mean, I could have understand it if he HAD AT LEAST took part in the fight against the Androids or in the Cell Games (as he prepared for both MORE THAN 3 YEARS of his life) before retiring or forced to quit due to his fatal injuries/lack of effect there.

His "cute" design made Toriyama's editor ask him to remove Chiaotzu from the front lines due to the more serious tone they hoped to take Z to, however Zeno's design 2 decades later makes it questionable if one has to look strong to actually be such.

I could have taken it easier or with more understanding if his last canonical battle was against a Cell Jr. or even the "weaker" Androids than just ending his career after Nappa (or Guldo if you, like myself, don't care about filler/not). It's nice to at least know that in Future Trunks' timeline Chiaotzu did fight against the Androids and perhaps even prior that against Mecha-Frieza, King Cold and their soldiers as there was no need to take him out (minimized his role to less than a Puar-level character) to make room for some alien transformation to blonde.

There was also an oppurtunity to have him show some backbone while coming with Tien to fight Buutenks and save heavily injured Mystic/Ultimate Gohan, Hercule & Dende (instead of having his last shot of action avoiding getting killed by Super Buu's Human Extinction Attack) or have both of them against Kid Buu in the Grand Kai's Planet alongside Krillin & Yamcha (happens in both Z & Kai) for old times' sake. Well, since Super isn't over yet all I can do as a DB fan of the original Z-Fighters is to hope that he'll matter once again in some filler battle in the future. They missed the opportunity in RoF with all the Frieza weakling goons he could have mopped the floor with, just look how great Master Roshi & Jaco who are leagues behind him did vs. these B rate subordinates (see link to my topic: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=37110&p=1226769#p1226769). Sadly they didn't do it in both the movie & DBS arc.

[Gog]

Well Honie that's because he is a Z fighter. Just doesn't do much, could say the same for all the humans unfortunately. But he is a Z fighter

[Nejishiki]

His "cute" design made Toriyama's editor ask him to remove Chiaotzu from the front lines due to the more serious tone they hoped to take Z to, however Zeno's design 2 decades later makes it questionable if one has to look strong to actually be such.

Could you source that thought about Chiaotzu? I don't believe I've heard any stories about Toriyama's editor (Yuu Kondou) requesting Chiaotzu's removal before. For that matter, the character was involved in the deathly serious Saiyan arc so forgive me if I doubt that claim. It's for the sake of knowledge all the same.

[Gog]

He shows up here with the rest of the gang:


That's always made me feel that he was "important" still, for some reason.

This image here. I do wonder if Toriyama originally planned for Chaozu to be in the Cell saga but at the last second couldn't come up with ANYTHING for him to do and just dropped him from the lineup.

He's still with the other Z fighters flying through the air next to Shenron in Super's opening. Really at this point Master Roshi should be replacing him.

I do wonder that as well, if he's so unimportant why bother with keeping him? He's just literally useless.

[Israelite Wolfman]

Could you source that thought about Chiaotzu? I don't believe I've heard any stories about Toriyama's editor (Yuu Kondou) requesting Chiaotzu's removal before. For that matter, the character was involved in the deathly serious Saiyan arc so forgive me if I doubt that claim. It's for the sake of knowledge all the same.

I believe it was cited in Chiaotzu's article in the Dragon Ball Wikia, I haven't been there for years (since I left editing there), but it is possible it's still there.


If Toei had listened to Toriyama's original draft notes about "Battle of Gods" when adapting it for DB Super they could see he wanted all the old Z-Fighters to participate in the battle against Beerus before Goku will show up, but then the movie would've been 120 minutes which is to long to make for cinemas - which could easily fit into an episode or two out of the 12 they turned this movie into. That was probably the notion that kept Yamcha & Chiaotzu out of the Resurrection 'F' movie, yet they missed these chances when making DBS.

If Toei was less obsessed with Super Saiyans and more devoted to their original characters back while working on Z & GT in the 1990s, we could have get a better Super 17 Saga with Chiaotzu killing the hell escapees Appule, Cui & Yamu while Tien could take out the Cooler's Armored Squadron & Spopovitch; and Yamcha making things right with easily massacring a herd of Saibamen before moving to take out Doodria & Transformed Zarbon with ease.

He can also be serious while fighting, Toei...

[TheZFighter]

If Toei had listened to Toriyama's original draft notes about "Battle of Gods" when adapting it for DB Super they could see he wanted all the old Z-Fighters to participate in the battle against Beerus before Goku will show up, but then the movie would've been 120 minutes which is to long to make for cinemas - which could easily fit into an episode or two out of the 12 they turned this movie into. That was probably the notion that kept Yamcha & Chiaotzu out of the Resurrection 'F' movie, yet they missed these chances when making DBS.

If Toei was less obsessed with Super Saiyans and more devoted to their original characters back while working on Z & GT in the 1990s, we could have get a better Super 17 Saga with Chiaotzu killing the hell escapees Appule, Cui & Yamu while Tien could take out the Cooler's Armored Squadron & Spopovitch; and Yamcha making things right with easily massacring a herd of Saibamen before moving to take out Doodria & Transformed Zarbon with ease.

He can also be serious while fighting, Toei...

I know you aren't able to see but I just stood up and applauded this.

[Nejishiki]

Could you source that thought about Chiaotzu? I don't believe I've heard any stories about Toriyama's editor (Yuu Kondou) requesting Chiaotzu's removal before. For that matter, the character was involved in the deathly serious Saiyan arc so forgive me if I doubt that claim. It's for the sake of knowledge all the same.

I believe it was cited in Chiaotzu's article in the Dragon Ball Wikia, I haven't been there for years (since I left editing there), but it is possible it's still there.

Well, the Dragon Ball Wikia isn't a reliable source of information. With Kanzenshuu featuring a complete archive on these matters, I didn't find it there, too. I think you're listening to hearsay. That analysis can't be supported, especially from the source you used.

[Gog]

Could you source that thought about Chiaotzu? I don't believe I've heard any stories about Toriyama's editor (Yuu Kondou) requesting Chiaotzu's removal before. For that matter, the character was involved in the deathly serious Saiyan arc so forgive me if I doubt that claim. It's for the sake of knowledge all the same.

I believe it was cited in Chiaotzu's article in the Dragon Ball Wikia, I haven't been there for years (since I left editing there), but it is possible it's still there.

Well, the Dragon Ball Wikia isn't a reliable source of information. With Kanzenshuu featuring a complete archive on these matters, I didn't find it there, too. I think you're listening to hearsay. That analysis can't be supported, especially from the source you used.

Dragon ball Wiki, the guys who stated that Monaka had the highest battle potential in all of universe 7??? HISSSS

[TheZFighter]

I can't recall the expulsion of a character from the "Z Fighters" ever coming up in the series, personally.

[Israelite Wolfman]

If Toei had listened to Toriyama's original draft notes about "Battle of Gods" when adapting it for DB Super they could see he wanted all the old Z-Fighters to participate in the battle against Beerus before Goku will show up, but then the movie would've been 120 minutes which is too long to make for cinemas - which could easily fit into an episode or two out of the 12 they turned this movie into. That was probably the notion that kept Yamcha & Chiaotzu out of the Resurrection 'F' movie, yet they missed these chances when making DBS.

If Toei was less obsessed with Super Saiyans and more devoted to their original characters back while working on Z & GT in the 1990s, we could have got a better Super 17 Saga with Chiaotzu killing the hell escapees Appule, Cui & Yamu while Tien could take out the Cooler's Armored Squadron & Spopovitch; and Yamcha making things right with easily massacring a herd of Saibamen before moving to take out Doodria & Transformed Zarbon with ease.

He can also be serious while fighting, Toei...

I know you aren't able to see but I just stood up and applauded this.

Thanks, bruh. Just doing my part in reminding Toei Chiaotzu (& Yamcha) still matters to fans over some simian-humanoids who can change their haircut & hair color with anger.
If I could add something to my Super 17 Saga scene with Chiaotzu etc. is to have him take out Dolltaki with a Dodonpa as well, having the swindler mock Chiaotzu he doesn't even need to turn him into a doll considering his appearance, making the Emperor of Mifan mad enough to slay that chimp (& to tie his killing spree there with Tien's; Yamcha should have another kill as well for that same reason, let's say the douchebag Tambourine who came back for more taunting, still believing himself to be a "threat" for the Dragon Team).

[Israelite Wolfman]

In Dragon Ball Z Episode 153 after Chiaotzu tells Yamcha & Roshi that he can sense Tien is dying (despite his fighting spirit), Yamcha suggest Chiaotzu and him will go help the dying Tien who was stalling Imperfect Cell with his Neo-Tri-Beams, they were about to go before Master Roshi tells them not to, cuz they'll eventually die too like Tien was supposed to against such an enemy (much to their disappointment). Leaving Chiaotzu to rival King Cold as the most wasted character in the franchise.