The new arc will (may?) settle an old debate: Tenshinhan vs. Kuririn

[Saturnine]

I don't care because I like one character better than the other, I care because I want sufficient proof beyond any shade of doubt, because I like facts.

[Big Green The Yoshi]

Krillin is without a doubt stronger than Tenshinhan. The Guru power up closed the gap that Tenshinhan could never hope to catch up to.

Also, I don't consider anything canon except the original Manga.

[Gog]

Krillin is without a doubt stronger than Tenshinhan. The Guru power up closed the gap that Tenshinhan could never hope to catch up to.

Also, I don't consider anything canon except the original Manga.

Wut about Dragon ball super which Toriyama wrote?

[JulianStyles]

Krillin is without a doubt stronger than Tenshinhan. The Guru power up closed the gap that Tenshinhan could never hope to catch up to.

Also, I don't consider anything canon except the original Manga.

Then why is that never shown in the manga or series visually android saga on? It's radicals like you that make the least amount of sense. Who are you to consider what's canon? Akira made Bardock part of his canon after Toei came up with it. 17,18 real names are from Akira interviews not the manga. But guess they not real to you. The story lines BOG and ROF in Super are from Akira. But they don't count to you?

I give people links Of Akira saying Tien is not human. Yet you people twist it. I give links to the Daizenshuu where it says he's Decendant of Aliens. Where Akira supports and wrote himself. I ask questions what is Earthling? Because clearly 17 and 18 are nothing but Earthling! They have human children! But I get treated like I'm the one making things up?

Go to any non American DBZ site. They know who's stronger and they don't hide the truth of Tiens heritage. I can provide those links to. Portuguese sites, Vietnamese sites.

So keep it up. Keep it coming.

[Darkprince410]

I give people links Of Akira saying Tien is not human. Yet you people twist it. I give links to the Daizenshuu where it says he's Decendant of Aliens. Where Akira supports and wrote himself. I ask questions what is Earthling? Because clearly 17 and 18 are nothing but Earthling! They have human children! But I get treated like I'm the one making things up?

Go to any non American DBZ site. They know who's stronger and they don't hide the truth of Tiens heritage. I can provide those links to. Portuguese sites, Vietnamese sites.

So keep it up. Keep it coming.

Toriyama's never once said or even implied that Tenshinhan wasn't human. The one interview question you posted that you've used as evidence can simply be taken as a parallel between his third eye and those of mystical figures in Eastern folklore.

The Daizenshuu repeatedly states, despite the fact that he is of alien descent, that he is still classified as human, and distinguishes him from the likes of Gohan and other hybrids in that he is so far removed from his alien heritage that it's not a question of him being half or quarter alien or anything like that.

As for #17 and #18, the Daizenshuu, which you tout with such respect in your earlier posts and in the one I'm responding to, states them to not be human anymore. They were once human, but aren't anymore. You can't have it both ways. If you respect the Daizenshuu's entries that much, you have to accept that #17 and #18 aren't classified as normal humans/Earthlings.

And for other sites, what makes their points accurate in compared to ours? Just because they may side with your opinion doesn't mean that they're automatically correct in comparison to here. That'd be like saying that Dragon Ball AF is a real and official sequel because Portuguese, Vietnamese, and sites of other nationalities all say it is. If the proof given to us from official sources points one way, then isn't it a bit ridiculous to go the other way just because a greater majority believe it to be that way?

[Makai]

The last episode of Super kind of emphasized how weak Krillin was getting not training, and even being hurt by mere bullets. Could this help the argument of who really is stronger between the two at this point in the series?

[saunasolmu]

The last episode of Super kind of emphasized how weak Krillin was getting not training, and even being hurt by mere bullets. Could this help the argument of who really is stronger between the two at this point in the series?

That would put Krillin's powerlevel ridiculously low, below his 21st Budokai self.

[DBZ Macky]

Base Goku was gravely injured from a laser gun.
Could this perhaps be sufficient proof that Tenshinhan has finally closed the gap between them, and become even stronger.
#TienForLyfe

[TheZFighter]

The last episode of Super kind of emphasized how weak Krillin was getting not training, and even being hurt by mere bullets. Could this help the argument of who really is stronger between the two at this point in the series?

That is really grim for Krillin if true, but I suppose if Gohan regresses after inactivity then I see no reason why Krillin shouldn't either.

[Makai]

Base Goku was gravely injured from a laser gun.
Could this perhaps be sufficient proof that Tenshinhan has finally closed the gap between them, and become even stronger.
#TienForLyfe

A laser that we know nothing about, for all we know it could have the power to destroy planets, compared to a human gun, with bullets they can easily just catch by now. Plus Goku was off guard, while Krillin clearly saw them shooting at him.

[JulianStyles]

I give people links Of Akira saying Tien is not human. Yet you people twist it. I give links to the Daizenshuu where it says he's Decendant of Aliens. Where Akira supports and wrote himself. I ask questions what is Earthling? Because clearly 17 and 18 are nothing but Earthling! They have human children! But I get treated like I'm the one making things up?

Go to any non American DBZ site. They know who's stronger and they don't hide the truth of Tiens heritage. I can provide those links to. Portuguese sites, Vietnamese sites.

So keep it up. Keep it coming.

Toriyama's never once said or even implied that Tenshinhan wasn't human. The one interview question you posted that you've used as evidence can simply be taken as a parallel between his third eye and those of mystical figures in Eastern folklore.

The Daizenshuu repeatedly states, despite the fact that he is of alien descent, that he is still classified as human, and distinguishes him from the likes of Gohan and other hybrids in that he is so far removed from his alien heritage that it's not a question of him being half or quarter alien or anything like that.

As for #17 and #18, the Daizenshuu, which you tout with such respect in your earlier posts and in the one I'm responding to, states them to not be human anymore. They were once human, but aren't anymore. You can't have it both ways. If you respect the Daizenshuu's entries that much, you have to accept that #17 and #18 aren't classified as normal humans/Earthlings.

And for other sites, what makes their points accurate in compared to ours? Just because they may side with your opinion doesn't mean that they're automatically correct in comparison to here. That'd be like saying that Dragon Ball AF is a real and official sequel because Portuguese, Vietnamese, and sites of other nationalities all say it is. If the proof given to us from official sources points one way, then isn't it a bit ridiculous to go the other way just because a greater majority believe it to be that way?

If Tien was human. Akira would have said yes. He was trying to give non Asians a perspective when they see a third eye. You automatically associate it with not being human. See it as mystical,divine ect.

The Canon of the Androids have changed. So Daizenshuu in 1996 doesn't reflect the new information Akira put out about them.

The Daizenshuu states Gohan is in that group of classified Earthlings. I've posted a link to a where you see a pie chart of Earthling classes. Mixed races make up 1%.

Also America never got the Daizenshuu translated. Only in Japanese and French. So information that Europe and Japan and countries close to them have known for 20 years. America just now figuring it out from people like me. American sites still don't readily include Tien as a Decendant of Aliens on their websites. Because early 2000s creators of the top DB sites were in love with Krillin. Since the original DB wasn't translated. And Android-Buu was just getting translated. Kids were flooded with the Frieza saga over and over. So kids made up information as they went. Goku Legacy 2. An American made game is the only outlet that has ever said Tiens eye is from enlightenment. Because they didn't know what they were doing. And Americans took that and posted on their sites. For a long time American information of dragonball has been wrong.

And to the point of others. How far Krillin has let himself go. You really think that strongest Earthling statement applies? Or just a copy and paste job. Its common sense. Tenshinhan has trained for 10 years. Krillin has not.

[JulianStyles]

Base Goku was gravely injured from a laser gun.
Could this perhaps be sufficient proof that Tenshinhan has finally closed the gap between them, and become even stronger.
#TienForLyfe

A laser that we know nothing about, for all we know it could have the power to destroy planets, compared to a human gun, with bullets they can easily just catch by now. Plus Goku was off guard, while Krillin clearly saw them shooting at him.

Love your profile animated pic. Tien,Piccolo, and 18 fighting Beerus. What was Krillin doing during that? Krillins gaurd was not down. It was up if anything. He was in the midst of a fire fight and went to protect someone. Goku literally let his gaurd down. He wasnt expecting an attack. Krillin knew what was coming.

[Darkprince410]

If Tien was human. Akira would have said yes. He was trying to give non Asians a perspective when they see a third eye. You automatically associate it with not being human. See it as mystical,divine ect.

The Canon of the Androids have changed. So Daizenshuu in 1996 doesn't reflect the new information Akira put out about them.

The Daizenshuu states Gohan is in that group of classified Earthlings. I've posted a link to a where you see a pie chart of Earthling classes. Mixed races make up 1%.

Also America never got the Daizenshuu translated. Only in Japanese and French. So information that Europe and Japan and countries close to them have known for 20 years. America just now figuring it out from people like me. American sites still don't readily include Tien as a Decendant of Aliens on their websites. Because early 2000s creators of the top DB sites were in love with Krillin. Since the original DB wasn't translated. And Android-Buu was just getting translated. Kids were flooded with the Frieza saga over and over. So kids made up information as they went. Goku Legacy 2. An American made game is the only outlet that has ever said Tiens eye is from enlightenment. Because they didn't know what they were doing. And Americans took that and posted on their sites. For a long time American information of dragonball has been wrong.

And to the point of others. How far Krillin has let himself go. You really think that strongest Earthling statement applies? Or just a copy and paste job. Its common sense. Tenshinhan has trained for 10 years. Krillin has not.

1) Like I said before, nothing about that says or suggests non-human though. He's just drawing a parallel between the powers that those individuals would have in mythology and what Tenshinhan's eye potentially could have had if his upbringing wasn't evil.

2) Umm, no they haven't. Nothing has come out or changed the information known about the Artificial Humans that changes or would have an impact on how they were classified. It's always been known that they were cyborgs, and since the Buu arc we've known they were able to bear children. Nothing has come out since then to change this standing. What is this new information that alters their "canon" that makes the Daizenshuu's statements irrelevant?

Likewise, if you're wanting to toss out the legitimacy of the Daizenshuu because of this apparent new information, wouldn't that mean tossing out all the alien ancestry tied to Tenshinhan, as Toriyama never brought that up on his own once.

3) That doesn't change things at all though. As mentioned more than once, while the Daizenshuu lists Gohan as an Earthling, it makes it clear to point out that he's a hybrid, classifying him as that repeatedly, while it doesn't do the same for Tenshinhan. His alien ancestry is mentioned and established, but it still doesn't classify him as a mixed race or hybrid.

4) Having information before others doesn't make their opinions automatically correct. Whether the information came out 20 years ago or 1 year ago, facts are still facts, and regardless of what some sites may post as far as "facts" (or lack thereof), there's a simple truth, that all official sources classify Tenshinhan as a human/earthling (and not a hybrid) and that Kuririn is the strongest human in that same category.

5) Kuririn also had his full potential unlocked, which would have pushed him far beyond where Tenshinhan was at the time. Since then, it can easily be attributed as being an uphill climb for Tenshinhan after.

[Doctor.]

We know nothing about what Tenshinhan has been doing for the past 10 years, who says he's been training?

[Kamiccolo9]

We know nothing about what Tenshinhan has been doing for the past 10 years, who says he's been training?

Actually, we know that he has taken up farming. There was that one recent interview where Toriyama got us caught up with the cast before Super. It's the same one where he tells us about Yamcha working as a host or something.

[Revious83]

Should'nt Kuririn be able to just stand in front of the criminals and catch all the bullets like, Muten Roshi and Tsurusenin did in Dragon Ball. It was also against machine gun fire.

[JulianStyles]

We know nothing about what Tenshinhan has been doing for the past 10 years, who says he's been training?

LOL Akira says it. His recent bios say it. SMH. Akira stated Tien trains along with farming. And Choutzu is rich because they assist other farms for a fee. The interview is on this site. Lol also in Tiens ROF bio he says he trains. Smh

[JulianStyles]

We know nothing about what Tenshinhan has been doing for the past 10 years, who says he's been training?

Stoic Tenshinhan mainly does farming in addition to his training. He can split into multiple bodies and grow extra arms, so harvesting the crops goes quickly. He was found by Lunch, who fell in love with him at first sight and had been constantly pursuing his whereabouts, and even reluctantly lived together with her; but she wasn’t cut out for farming, and Tenshinhan has no interest in romance, so she left after just a few days. After that, it seems Lunch apparently stops in from time to time.

Straight from Akiras mouth. Farming within itself is training and exercise. The fact he's using techniques means he's also practicing his skills on a constant basis. I hope the new tournament brings back him growing extra arms. Also this Lunch thing needs to be settled. Have a kid like Vegeta. Just ignore it.

[TheUltimateNinja]

We know nothing about what Tenshinhan has been doing for the past 10 years, who says he's been training?

Stoic Tenshinhan mainly does farming in addition to his training. He can split into multiple bodies and grow extra arms, so harvesting the crops goes quickly. He was found by Lunch, who fell in love with him at first sight and had been constantly pursuing his whereabouts, and even reluctantly lived together with her; but she wasn’t cut out for farming, and Tenshinhan has no interest in romance, so she left after just a few days. After that, it seems Lunch apparently stops in from time to time.

Straight from Akiras mouth. Farming within itself is training and exercise. The fact he's using techniques means he's also practicing his skills on a constant basis. I hope the new tournament brings back him growing extra arms. Also this Lunch thing needs to be settled. Have a kid like Vegeta. Just ignore it.

I doubt he's gotten that much stronger just by farming, I figure maybe he'll be able to take out one of Frieza's restriction forms now.

[Asura]

I think the reason that this debate will always be kept alive, and essentially the problem with it, is that if we were not told Krillin was the strongest human, it would be easy for us to definitely pin Tien as the strongest. From the first time we met him in DB, to the last time we saw him in RoF, the dude has been non-stop training. He even tells everyone after Cell that he's probably never going to see them again, and fucks off to go train some more. He's like Piccolo. Even during peace time, he's training non-stop. Compare that to Krillin, who we see mostly slacking off during peace time, gives up on being a martial artist, etc. whose only "advantage" he held over Tien was the Guru unlock. But surely that power gap must have been easily closed by Super, not to mention Tien received Kaio training and Krillin did not.

Logically, from what we have seen on screen and in the book, we should be able to deduce that Tien is stronger. But Toriyama says that Krillin is the strongest, so...he just is. It's really a matter of show vs. tell. We're shown Tien is the strongest, but told Krillin is the strongest. Maybe they're just both the strongest?