Should Super Saiyan have been a one time thing?

[Xeztin]

As in when Goku first went Super Saiyan on Namek, before he killed Freeza he dropped to base and went back into SSJ in the manga to show he could do it at will. Should it have been more like the Oozaru transformation and only happen when Goku gets really angry as in when someone close to him dies? I think it would have made Super Saiyan more special instead of mastering it in the Cell saga. I never did like the fact that it could happen at will with no restraints when Kaioken and the Oozaru form are either hard on the body or have requirements. I'd have liked it if after Goku escaped Namek, he passed out and dropped out of SSJ and came back to Earth saying he couldn't transform back into it.

[Gog]

Oh my God yes, yes and a thousand yes's it would have made the super Saiyan form a thousand times more relevant, and meant that all resulting enemies were weaker.

So yes

[Ki Breaker]

After he transformed into the freeza saga, he couldn't transform for the entirety of Z and kept getting his base form stronger, then when berrus came and beat goku and was about to destroy his world he bursts into SS once more like this! Because goku kept increasing his base all this time, SS was as strong as SS red form..
Aftwrbthe battle, Whis helps him call SS at somewhat of will but it only has a 10℅ chance of success..

Basically Dragonball super having the job of having goku use the super transformation at will eventually

[emperior]

It would have been cool, but how would things play out after Namek?
Freezer wouldn't come back, sure. Trunks wouldn't be a Super Saiyan, the androids would suck, Piccolo wouldn't merge with Kami or if he would, the power-up wouldn't be big, though Guru said Piccolo + Kami would be as strong as a Super Saiyan.
Maybe Gohan would have gone Super Saiyan against Cell to win (probably stronger than Freezer)? Goku would still be very strong with Kaio-Ken and Vegeta could use the Oozaru form.
7 years later Majin Buu arrives, maybe he is 2x stronger than Freezer. Vegeta vs Goku could play out similar to their first fight, it would be great. Or maybe Vegeta finally goes Super Saiyan but instead of killing the crowd also kills Chi-Chi and the others, making Goku go Super Saiyan too. The battle would be a much bigger deal. Then Vegeta would sacrifice himself as a SSJ against Buu but still fail. Goku could stall Buu with Kaio-Ken, Goten and Trunks wouldn't be Super Saiyan but the fusion would be very strong. Gohan would still get the power up from the Old Kai, Goku and Vegeta would fuse into Vegetto and still whoop Buuhan's ass and Goku would beat Kid Buu with the Genkidama.

It could work as a fan manga, would be an interesting take on the events

[Nejishiki]

I wouldn't be a fan of it. The looming thought of, "So when will Goku become Super Saiyan?" would plague every battle he's involved in. The story showcased Goku's intense rage as subtly tamed while fighting Freeza, even though his behavior was still affected. It would certainly be odd to turn back on such a specific detail in hopes of limiting Super Saiyan's usage. Dragon Ball Z Movie 05, as much as I enjoy it, had that problem. The audience knows he possesses its power & is waiting out the moment for when he uses it to alter the odds. Goku's mastery of Super Saiyan complements his character in that he always innovates & improves his techniques. It should feel natural that he eventually controls Super Saiyan, sooner or later. Besides, it always requires feeling anger to activate so it's not as if that went away, it's just not necessary to highlight that at all times.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I wouldn't be a fan of it. The looming thought of, "So when will Goku become Super Saiyan?" would plague every battle he's involved in. The story showcased Goku's intense rage as subtly tamed while fighting Freeza, even though his behavior was still affected. It would certainly be odd to turn back on such a specific detail in hopes of limiting Super Saiyan's usage. Dragon Ball Z Movie 05, as much as I enjoy it, had that problem. The audience knows he possesses its power & is waiting out the moment for when he uses it to alter the odds. Goku's mastery of Super Saiyan complements his character in that he always innovates & improves his techniques. It should feel natural that he eventually controls Super Saiyan, sooner or later. Besides, it always requires feeling anger to activate so it's not as if that went away, it's just not necessary to highlight that at all times.

Or rather simply make it so Goku never goes Super Saiyan again until he's forced to against Beerus, and no one besides Goku ever becomes a Super Saiyan.

This would also let Frieza retain his title as the strongest in the universe which is another plus.

[Doctor.]

No, but I think Goku should have been the only one who ever achieved the form. Perhaps Vegeta, in the Boo arc.

[TheMikado]

The idea is an awesome topic, it would basically force the enemies to be pushing him to the brink of insanity and rage. Further it should have caused madness the longer and frequently it's held and used while simultaneously becoming more powerful ala Hulk. It would force them to attempt to resolve he issues organically and in pushing there base forms because knowing they could go SSJ and potentially wreck everything would be treated like nuclear deterrence.

[Totamo]

it definitely would have made fights more intresting.

but transformations are kind of one of the biggest things about this series people love.

I don't think dragon Ball would have been as popular without it

[TheUltimateNinja]

No, but I think Goku should have been the only one who ever achieved the form. Perhaps Vegeta, in the Boo arc.

I would have preferred Kaioken serving the role of SSJ, Vegeta, Trunks and co. would learn Kaioken to keep up with Goku rather becoming Super Saiyans themselves.

Plus it would also preserve the Super Saiyan legend, it really sucked how it immediately became obsolete in the next arc in canon.

[Doctor.]

No, but I think Goku should have been the only one who ever achieved the form. Perhaps Vegeta, in the Boo arc.

I would have preferred Kaioken serving the role of SSJ, Vegeta, Trunks and co. would learn Kaioken to keep up with Goku rather becoming Super Saiyans themselves.

Plus it would also preserve the Super Saiyan legend, it really sucked how it immediately became obsolete in the next arc in canon.

I don't think you even need to give Kaioken to anyone else. Goku was in a coma for the majority of the android arc and he wouldn't even have control of the Super Saiyan form regardless after he wakes up. That 50x difference between base and Super Saiyan Goku/Freeza gives a lot of room for opponents and the heroes.

I only said perhaps Vegeta because him achieving Super Saiyan after becoming good (or maybe when Babidi takes control of him, pick one) would be cathartic.

[PsionicWarrior]

Nah, new transformations are awesome lol
Basically one new per big arc (ssj1 freeza, ssj2 cell and ssj3 buu), and it worked well like this in Z IMO
Although I wouldn't want any more NOW. SSJB should evolve on its own without showing visually but only a difference in battle power. Maybe additional sparks but that's it. Not against a new transformation in general, but in a long time, we had too many in a too short lapse of time in Super IMO and it created a ******* mess lol

[TheUltimateNinja]

No, but I think Goku should have been the only one who ever achieved the form. Perhaps Vegeta, in the Boo arc.

I would have preferred Kaioken serving the role of SSJ, Vegeta, Trunks and co. would learn Kaioken to keep up with Goku rather becoming Super Saiyans themselves.

Plus it would also preserve the Super Saiyan legend, it really sucked how it immediately became obsolete in the next arc in canon.

I don't think you even need to give Kaioken to anyone else. Goku was in a coma for the majority of the android arc and he wouldn't even have control of the Super Saiyan form regardless after he wakes up. That 50x difference between base and Super Saiyan Goku/Freeza gives a lot of room for opponents and the heroes.

I only said perhaps Vegeta because him achieving Super Saiyan after becoming good (or maybe when Babidi takes control of him, pick one) would be cathartic.

That just gave me an idea. SSJ would actually make Goku lose control and he would end up killing Frieza due to this. The heart virus would put Goku out of commission for a lot longer than in canon, resulting in him still being in a coma when Cell reaches his Perfect Form. Hearing this, Cell would decide to postpone his destruction of the planet and host the Cell Games when Goku wakes up which, coincidentally, would be 10 days later.

Vegeta, Trunks, Piccolo & Gohan could train in the RoSAT to somewhat close the gap between themselves and Goku. Grade 2/3 would simply be their base forms bulking up rather than their SSJ forms. Then at the Cell Games, Goku would still be strongest with his Kaioken x20 and he'd use that to fight Cell. And though it would be somewhat OOC, Goku would serve the role of Gohan at the Cell Games in that he would try not to use SSJ for fear of losing control once again, but would be forced to do so once Cell pushes him to the brink by attacking his allies. Then SSJ Goku would waste Cell.

[Gog]

Now that I've thought about it for a minute. I would prefer that Goku was the only super Saiyan, he can transform into it at will. But he can only transform into it. It would mean that the androids are as strong as him in his base form, so it could fix the problems of a mad man in a cave making androids as strong as Freeza. Trunks could have a mastered Kaio ken, and Vegeta could master Ozaruo and possibly ascend to a super Saiyan 4 like state. Gohan would just have a powerful base form. Would make things more intresting

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I mean, it should have been a 0 time thing. However, if we're going to ass-pull our heroes to victory, we may as well keep it in high gear.

[Duo]

It would work best if Goku were also to die on Namek, thus avoiding the previously mentioned problem of it plaguing the entire plot with its eventual return. You'd basically have to rewrite the whole story from there.

[Nejishiki]

Plus it would also preserve the Super Saiyan legend, it really sucked how it immediately became obsolete in the next arc in canon.

Super Saiyan, as described by Vegeta, ended up non-representative of its myth in the same arc that introduced its concept. Vegeta himself didn't place much stock in the tale until he believed it was possible to achieve for himself. In-universe, there was no legend to preserve with Goku proving its ideas false. Possessing a tranquil heart with intense rage was not recorded in the Super Saiyan stories Vegeta & Freeza knew of. The Saiyans were required to contradict their natures to reach that plateau. The myth is representative of Broli more than it is the rest of the Saiyans. The notion that the enemies after Freeza were a "problem" that needed "to be fixed" is creatively limited.

That said, I may be the rare individual that enjoys Super Saiyan getting its "reality check" in the next arc. The idea that it should remain untouchable after its debut never rubbed me the right way. The series loves to preach that there's always someone stronger. Vegeta was a perfect device to hammer that message. He truly believed he was the mightiest of the mighty until the Artificial Humans forced him & the rest of the Saiyans to innovate their transformation. In any standard series, Super Saiyan would be the end-all superpower. In Toriyama's world, there's still always room for improvement. No one is above humility. I'm personally glad the characters were forced to push what they thought was the limit right past "the wall"!

[Attitudefan]

In any standard series, Super Saiyan would be the end-all superpower. In Toriyama's world, there's still always room for improvement. No one is above humility. I'm personally glad the characters were forced to push what they thought was the limit right past "the wall"!

Although, doesn't Goten/Trunks having Super Saiyan contradict this whole ideal you conceived?

[Gog]

In any standard series, Super Saiyan would be the end-all superpower. In Toriyama's world, there's still always room for improvement. No one is above humility. I'm personally glad the characters were forced to push what they thought was the limit right past "the wall"!

Although, doesn't Goten/Trunks having Super Saiyan contradict this whole ideal you conceived?

And nobody likes Goten and Trunks for basically ruining the super Saiyan legend, even though Vegeta did the same. But Goten and Trunk's case was much more in your face, then Vegeta's was

[Nejishiki]

In any standard series, Super Saiyan would be the end-all superpower. In Toriyama's world, there's still always room for improvement. No one is above humility. I'm personally glad the characters were forced to push what they thought was the limit right past "the wall"!

Although, doesn't Goten/Trunks having Super Saiyan contradict this whole ideal you conceived?

And nobody likes Goten and Trunks for basically ruining the super Saiyan legend, even though Vegeta did the same. But Goten and Trunk's case was much more in your face, then Vegeta's was

In what way do you feel contradiction was present? Trunks & Goten are described as easily mastering Super Saiyan. They weren't cited to forsake possession of a tranquil heart & feeling intense rage when they first transformed. If anything, they're representative of humility never striking them & fulfilling Turtle Hermit's old fear with Goku & Kuririn. If you recall, Turtle Hermit believed that without challenge, they would become content with their power & regress, ultimately failing to test themselves further. That's pretty much what happens with Trunks & Goten.

Being tailless half-Saiyans, tremendous power was granted to them from birth. The amount of challenges & walls they encountered pale in comparison to the main cast's tribulations. They are continuously slighted for slacking off & never taking martial arts seriously. In their perspective, what's the point? They're already part of Earth's finest & talented in their own right. By being allied with veteran warriors, their opportunity for "reality checks" rarely comes by. It's made no better with their reliance of Metamor Fusion. They're never forced to innovate too often when they may simply rely on each other's strength when they wish. It makes them different types of characters, but not bad characters.

They're the anti-thesis to Goku & Vegeta's philosophies & I don't believe there's anything wrong with showcasing such a comparison. With the latter, they're all about never being satisfied with their best. With Trunks & Goten, their best is "good enough" & they have alternate outlets if they require assistance. The apparent purpose is that they're mostly against the series' message & they're portrayed in a negative light for their behavior. I'm cool with the variety of personalities to illustrate a point because it later reveals Turtle Hermit's fears with Goku & Kuririn. Despite all my rambling, I would like to hear why either of you view contradiction with that in regard to Super Saiyan. I personally wrote why I think "the Super Saiyan legend" is being made more than what it is from the actual script. Broli is what Vegeta thought a real Super Saiyan was like yet they're beings who mostly reject unrestrained intent.