So Why Didn't Freeza Train After Namek?

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Re: So Why Didn't Freeza Train After Namek?

Post by Israelite Wolfman » Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:14 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:
Freeza9000 wrote:Since it was stated iirc that Freeza did boost in power after being cybernetically and that his father (who was stated to be stronger than Freeza), one can come to the conclusion that Freeza was cocky and confident enough that he would beat Goku.
Cold isn't stronger than Frieza.
I think you should rewatch DBZ and Kai, it's implied by Vegeta, Tien & Gohan (iirc about the last one) King Cold was indeed stronger than the cybernetically empowered Frieza (was described as the "other, larger ki") before the Daizenshuu biographies and Toriyama changed this.

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Re: So Why Didn't Freeza Train After Namek?

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:20 pm

Israelite Wolfman wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:
Freeza9000 wrote:Since it was stated iirc that Freeza did boost in power after being cybernetically and that his father (who was stated to be stronger than Freeza), one can come to the conclusion that Freeza was cocky and confident enough that he would beat Goku.
Cold isn't stronger than Frieza.
I think you should rewatch DBZ and Kai, it's implied by Vegeta, Tien & Gohan (iirc about the last one) King Cold was indeed stronger than the cybernetically empowered Frieza (was described as the "other, larger ki") before the Daizenshuu biographies and Toriyama changed this.
Trunks killed him in an instant with only one attack, he actually had to put in some effort against Frieza. Also, Gohan says Frieza can get much stronger than that, so Cold is only stronger than a suppressed Frieza.

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Re: So Why Didn't Freeza Train After Namek?

Post by Israelite Wolfman » Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:24 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:
Israelite Wolfman wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote: Cold isn't stronger than Frieza.
I think you should rewatch DBZ and Kai, it's implied by Vegeta, Tien & Gohan (iirc about the last one) King Cold was indeed stronger than the cybernetically empowered Frieza (was described as the "other, larger ki") before the Daizenshuu biographies and Toriyama changed this.
Trunks killed him in an instant with only one attack, he actually had to put in some effort against Frieza. Also, Gohan says Frieza can get much stronger than that, so Cold is only stronger than a suppressed Frieza.
Frieza himself told Goku that other than his "loving parent(/s?)" = King Cold, none could actually harm him/caused him pain in battle.

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Re: So Why Didn't Freeza Train After Namek?

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:25 pm

Israelite Wolfman wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:
Israelite Wolfman wrote: I think you should rewatch DBZ and Kai, it's implied by Vegeta, Tien & Gohan (iirc about the last one) King Cold was indeed stronger than the cybernetically empowered Frieza (was described as the "other, larger ki") before the Daizenshuu biographies and Toriyama changed this.
Trunks killed him in an instant with only one attack, he actually had to put in some effort against Frieza. Also, Gohan says Frieza can get much stronger than that, so Cold is only stronger than a suppressed Frieza.
Frieza himself told Goku that other than his "loving parent(/s?)" = King Cold, none could actually harm him/caused him pain in battle.
Goku himself had just damaged him, and he was at only 2.5% of Frieza's power.

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Re: So Why Didn't Freeza Train After Namek?

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:30 pm

Also, his exact line in the manga is Goku's the only one besides his parent who's managed to get dust on him.

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Re: So Why Didn't Freeza Train After Namek?

Post by FoolsGil » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:24 pm

Because he was arrogant and had delusions of grandeur? I mean, he didn't need to even land. Both at the Android Saga and RoF, he could have blasted Earth from orbit and no one would have seen him coming, but he doesn't.

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Re: So Why Didn't Freeza Train After Namek?

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:25 pm

FoolsGil wrote:Because he was arrogant and had delusions of grandeur? I mean, he didn't need to even land. Both at the Android Saga and RoF, he could have blasted Earth from orbit and no one would have seen him coming, but he doesn't.
He would end up getting killed by Goku in both of those scenarios.

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Re: So Why Didn't Freeza Train After Namek?

Post by Freeza9000 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:30 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:
Freeza9000 wrote:Since it was stated iirc that Freeza did boost in power after being cybernetically and that his father (who was stated to be stronger than Freeza), one can come to the conclusion that Freeza was cocky and confident enough that he would beat Goku.
Cold isn't stronger than Frieza.
He was still strong as fuck nonetheless.

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Re: So Why Didn't Freeza Train After Namek?

Post by FoolsGil » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:05 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:Because he was arrogant and had delusions of grandeur? I mean, he didn't need to even land. Both at the Android Saga and RoF, he could have blasted Earth from orbit and no one would have seen him coming, but he doesn't.
He would end up getting killed by Goku in both of those scenarios.
I never said he wouldn't be. I was just making a point.

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Re: So Why Didn't Freeza Train After Namek?

Post by Cipher » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:16 pm

Gog wrote::shock: Um, who's god? :?
You'll see plenty of members refer to "Kami" as God here, because ... that's who he is. That's his role. That's what "Kami" means. Not localizing his name kind of obfuscates the twist that Goku tells everyone he's off to train with the capital-"G" God. Of course later we find out he's just one small part of an expanding pantheon of gods in Dragon Ball, but that's beside the point.

Not localizing his name in the FUNimation dub was almost certainly a way of painting over any problematic religious connotations, and maybe there was no way to avoid that, but in doing so it completely fails to present the hook of the post-Piccolo Daimao material.

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Re: So Why Didn't Freeza Train After Namek?

Post by Ozotto » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:41 am

My opinion on this...
I'm not sure if it's correct but this is my take...
Probably a bit of head canon here...


So Frieza was originally just a very strong individual, likely a mutant of his race.
Power levels seemed relatively fixed with Saiyans having the unique ability to make huge gains over short periods of time.
So for everyone else, gains were tough.

Cyborg Frieza was stronger due to the enhancements.

I guess he figured it was enough to put him over the top to defeat Goku.
Plus training may have not originally benefited Frieza/ Frieza's race.
It's not his personality either, he believes he's the strongest.

Furthermore, maybe it's a bit of a retcon having Frieza train and make huge gains in Super.

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Re: So Why Didn't Freeza Train After Namek?

Post by dbgtFO » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:53 am

TheUltimateNinja wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:Because he was arrogant and had delusions of grandeur? I mean, he didn't need to even land. Both at the Android Saga and RoF, he could have blasted Earth from orbit and no one would have seen him coming, but he doesn't.
He would end up getting killed by Goku in both of those scenarios.
Only in the first scenario.
In the second scenario no one could have stopped him, as Goku didn't know about Freeza being on Earth until his friends were about to get killed by Freeza.

As for Freeza not training: the answer has already been given. The guy was reduced to less than half his body. Of course he didn't train and had to hope his mechanical body could do the trick.

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Re: So Why Didn't Freeza Train After Namek?

Post by DanielSSJ » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:50 am

Freeza brushed the first loss as a fluke. Two losses? There's something wrong here...
My Official Unofficial Battle Power list (in-progress: updated 11/8/2022—FREEZA ARC COMPLETED)

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Re: So Why Didn't Freeza Train After Namek?

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:51 am

dbgtFO wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:Because he was arrogant and had delusions of grandeur? I mean, he didn't need to even land. Both at the Android Saga and RoF, he could have blasted Earth from orbit and no one would have seen him coming, but he doesn't.
He would end up getting killed by Goku in both of those scenarios.
Only in the first scenario.
In the second scenario no one could have stopped him, as Goku didn't know about Freeza being on Earth until his friends were about to get killed by Freeza.

As for Freeza not training: the answer has already been given. The guy was reduced to less than half his body. Of course he didn't train and had to hope his mechanical body could do the trick.
He may manage to destroy the earth in the second scenario, but he would get massacred by the rage boosted Saiyans. Goku and Vegeta may even team up in this scenario.

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Re: So Why Didn't Freeza Train After Namek?

Post by dbgtFO » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:06 am

TheUltimateNinja wrote: He may manage to destroy the earth in the second scenario, but he would get massacred by the rage boosted Saiyans. Goku and Vegeta may even team up in this scenario.
Well they would have to teleport onboard Freeza's ship or have Whis transport them there, because they ain't surviving in space. I can only see Vegeta possibly be rageboosted. Goku didn't have much of a reaction, when he saw Freeza blow up the Earth, nor when Buu did. And against Buu they didn't work together either.
This more cunning Freeza maybe just could pull a win off, if Whis and Beerus don't become too involved.

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Re: So Why Didn't Freeza Train After Namek?

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:11 am

dbgtFO wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote: He may manage to destroy the earth in the second scenario, but he would get massacred by the rage boosted Saiyans. Goku and Vegeta may even team up in this scenario.
Well they would have to teleport onboard Freeza's ship or have Whis transport them there, because they ain't surviving in space. I can only see Vegeta possibly be rageboosted. Goku didn't have much of a reaction, when he saw Freeza blow up the Earth, nor when Buu did. And against Buu they didn't work together either.
This more cunning Freeza maybe just could pull a win off, if Whis and Beerus don't become too involved.
That would be because he likely knew on some level that it could be reversed, he did recall Whis' time reversal ability. If it was too late for Whis to change things he'd probably fly off the handle like he did against Black and Zamasu.

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Re: So Why Didn't Freeza Train After Namek?

Post by dbgtFO » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:12 am

TheUltimateNinja wrote: That would be because he likely knew on some level that it could be reversed, he did recall Whis' time reversal ability. If it was too late for Whis to change things he'd probably fly off the handle like he did against Black and Zamasu.
Goku didn't know. Super made it vague as opposed to RoF, where he explained he could rewind time before they fought Freeza.
Goku even had to ask, what they were talking about, before reminding himself of Whis' earlier vague statement.

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Re: So Why Didn't Freeza Train After Namek?

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:36 am

dbgtFO wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote: That would be because he likely knew on some level that it could be reversed, he did recall Whis' time reversal ability. If it was too late for Whis to change things he'd probably fly off the handle like he did against Black and Zamasu.
Goku didn't know. Super made it vague as opposed to RoF, where he explained he could rewind time before they fought Freeza.
Goku even had to ask, what they were talking about, before reminding himself of Whis' earlier vague statement.
He may have been relying on the Namekian Dragon Balls then. Usually Goku flies into a rage when people close to him die, especially the really close ones like Kuririn, it's pretty weird that he didn't have a strong reaction to failing to save the Earth from Frieza. Sure, most of his friends may have survived but Chichi and Goten had been killed, and that's what caused him to get his rage boost against Black.

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Re: So Why Didn't Freeza Train After Namek?

Post by dbgtFO » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:54 am

TheUltimateNinja wrote: He may have been relying on the Namekian Dragon Balls then. Usually Goku flies into a rage when people close to him die, especially the really close ones like Kuririn, it's pretty weird that he didn't have a strong reaction to failing to save the Earth from Frieza. Sure, most of his friends may have survived but Chichi and Goten had been killed, and that's what caused him to get his rage boost against Black.
He already forgot about the Namekian Dragon Balls in the Buu arc. Goku is a forgetful person afterall.
And his characterization is clearly just whatever the plot dictates. Here it's in line with his reaction to Kid Buu blowing up the Earth, while forgetting about the Namekian DBs.

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Re: So Why Didn't Freeza Train After Namek?

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:56 am

dbgtFO wrote: He already forgot about the Namekian Dragon Balls in the Buu arc. Goku is a forgetful person afterall.
And his characterization is clearly just whatever the plot dictates. Here it's in line with his reaction to Kid Buu blowing up the Earth, while forgetting about the Namekian DBs.
Perhaps it's the fact that he didn't actually watch anybody die then. Sometimes it doesn't really sink in unless you actually witness it with your own eyes, so for a simple minded fellow like Goku it may not have had the full effect since everyone around him survived except for Vegeta. Though in the Buu Arc he had to abandon his own children on Earth as it exploded, so that'd be pretty tough to ignore even though he was teleported away right before they died.

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