Why did Goku tell Vegeta about the RoSAT?

[TheUltimateNinja]

And why did he let him go first? If Goku and Gohan went in first Cell wouldn't even reach his Semi Perfect State since they came out ~2 hours early, thus they'd be able to show up right before Piccolo fights 17 and oneshot everyone.

[sintzu]

He probably wasn't sure if he and Gohan would be able to win alone without Vegeta and Trunks' help.

They both wanted to fight each other again so if the roles were switched and Vegeta knew about the room chances are he'd tell Goku about it just to prove that he's stronger.

[floofychan333]

I imagine he trusted Vegeta not to ruin everything but we all know what happened then.

[OLKv3]

Backup. 4 super powered Saiyans are better than 2, and he knew Vegeta was a battle genius. Remember at the time there were multiple threats. 3 androids and Cell.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Backup. 4 super powered Saiyans are better than 2, and he knew Vegeta was a battle genius. Remember at the time there were multiple threats. 3 androids and Cell.

But even SSJ Vegeta (Post RoSAT) could easily overwhelm them without the use of Grade 2, let alone FPSSJ Goku (Post RoSAT) who completely outclassed Grade 2 Vegeta with only half his power and was still far ahead even after Vegeta trained for another year. There was no need for backup at all, Goku could have easily beaten any enemy besides Perfect Cell without even using a third of his power.

[OLKv3]

Backup. 4 super powered Saiyans are better than 2, and he knew Vegeta was a battle genius. Remember at the time there were multiple threats. 3 androids and Cell.

But even SSJ Vegeta (Post RoSAT) could easily overwhelm them without the use of Grade 2, let alone FPSSJ Goku (Post RoSAT) who completely outclassed Grade 2 Vegeta with only half his power and was still far ahead even after Vegeta trained for another year. There was no need for backup at all, Goku could have easily beaten any enemy besides Perfect Cell without even using a third of his power.

They didn't know how powerful they'd get when they went in. You're talking as if they knew the gains they'd make, when before then it was a gamble if they'd even surpass SSJ in the first place. So Goku ensured they'd match the odds by bringing Vegeta as well, as he says in these 2 panels.
[spoiler]
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[TheUltimateNinja]

Backup. 4 super powered Saiyans are better than 2, and he knew Vegeta was a battle genius. Remember at the time there were multiple threats. 3 androids and Cell.

But even SSJ Vegeta (Post RoSAT) could easily overwhelm them without the use of Grade 2, let alone FPSSJ Goku (Post RoSAT) who completely outclassed Grade 2 Vegeta with only half his power and was still far ahead even after Vegeta trained for another year. There was no need for backup at all, Goku could have easily beaten any enemy besides Perfect Cell without even using a third of his power.

They didn't know how powerful they'd get when they went in. You're talking as if they knew the gains they'd make, when before then it was a gamble if they'd even surpass SSJ in the first place. So Goku ensured they'd match the odds by bringing Vegeta as well, as he says in these 2 panels.
[spoiler]
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Even so, he should have gone in first and only told Vegeta after he came out.

[nickzambuto]

I wonder if Goku would have been able to achieve the same level of upgrade if he went in first, without the goal of Vegeta's powerup to strive towards.

This whole "surpass Super Saiyan" thing was just an idea Goku and Vegeta both came up with. They had no idea how to do it, or even if it were possible. In typical DB fashion, they just decided they would make it possible. Vegeta was therefore the prototype for this concept, him proving beyond all doubt that it was in fact achievable, likely paved a clearer road for Goku, and at least partially accounts for the unbelievable powerup he achieved.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I wonder if Goku would have been able to achieve the same level of upgrade if he went in first, without the goal of Vegeta's powerup to strive towards.

This whole "surpass Super Saiyan" thing was just an idea Goku and Vegeta both came up with. They had no idea how to do it, or even if it were possible. In typical DB fashion, they just decided they would make it possible. Vegeta was therefore the prototype for this concept, him proving beyond all doubt that it was in fact achievable, likely paved a clearer road for Goku, and at least partially accounts for the unbelievable powerup he achieved.

Goku had no idea what Vegeta did, though, he just knew that he surpassed Super Saiyan, therefore it was possible.

[nickzambuto]

I wonder if Goku would have been able to achieve the same level of upgrade if he went in first, without the goal of Vegeta's powerup to strive towards.

This whole "surpass Super Saiyan" thing was just an idea Goku and Vegeta both came up with. They had no idea how to do it, or even if it were possible. In typical DB fashion, they just decided they would make it possible. Vegeta was therefore the prototype for this concept, him proving beyond all doubt that it was in fact achievable, likely paved a clearer road for Goku, and at least partially accounts for the unbelievable powerup he achieved.

Goku had no idea what Vegeta did, though, he just knew that he surpassed Super Saiyan, therefore it was possible.

And that reassurance was a big boost to his mental confidence.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I wonder if Goku would have been able to achieve the same level of upgrade if he went in first, without the goal of Vegeta's powerup to strive towards.

This whole "surpass Super Saiyan" thing was just an idea Goku and Vegeta both came up with. They had no idea how to do it, or even if it were possible. In typical DB fashion, they just decided they would make it possible. Vegeta was therefore the prototype for this concept, him proving beyond all doubt that it was in fact achievable, likely paved a clearer road for Goku, and at least partially accounts for the unbelievable powerup he achieved.

Goku had no idea what Vegeta did, though, he just knew that he surpassed Super Saiyan, therefore it was possible.

And that reassurance was a big boost to his mental confidence.

Even so, Vegeta was able to achieve the Grade states in just 2 months, Goku should be able to do it even faster and he'd still have over 9 months left to master regular SSJ.

[nickzambuto]

Goku had no idea what Vegeta did, though, he just knew that he surpassed Super Saiyan, therefore it was possible.

And that reassurance was a big boost to his mental confidence.

Even so, Vegeta was able to achieve the Grade states in just 2 months, Goku should be able to do it even faster and he'd still have over 9 months left to master regular SSJ.

He'd get very strong, I'm just throwing out the possibility that maybe he wouldn't have gotten as strong if he went first.

[TheUltimateNinja]

And that reassurance was a big boost to his mental confidence.

Even so, Vegeta was able to achieve the Grade states in just 2 months, Goku should be able to do it even faster and he'd still have over 9 months left to master regular SSJ.

He'd get very strong, I'm just throwing out the possibility that maybe he wouldn't have gotten as strong if he went first.

I don't see why not, he left the RoSAT early because he'd already hit his limit in terms of gains, he'd just have to stay in there a bit longer and he'd achieve the same power.

[OLKv3]

But even SSJ Vegeta (Post RoSAT) could easily overwhelm them without the use of Grade 2, let alone FPSSJ Goku (Post RoSAT) who completely outclassed Grade 2 Vegeta with only half his power and was still far ahead even after Vegeta trained for another year. There was no need for backup at all, Goku could have easily beaten any enemy besides Perfect Cell without even using a third of his power.

They didn't know how powerful they'd get when they went in. You're talking as if they knew the gains they'd make, when before then it was a gamble if they'd even surpass SSJ in the first place. So Goku ensured they'd match the odds by bringing Vegeta as well, as he says in these 2 panels.
[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

Even so, he should have gone in first and only told Vegeta after he came out.

The only way Vegeta would have agreed is if he went in first, so Goku had no choice. Plus as said, Vegeta proving that it can be done is a big boost to morale

[TheUltimateNinja]

They didn't know how powerful they'd get when they went in. You're talking as if they knew the gains they'd make, when before then it was a gamble if they'd even surpass SSJ in the first place. So Goku ensured they'd match the odds by bringing Vegeta as well, as he says in these 2 panels.
[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

Even so, he should have gone in first and only told Vegeta after he came out.

The only way Vegeta would have agreed is if he went in first, so Goku had no choice. Plus as said, Vegeta proving that it can be done is a big boost to morale

Vegeta didn't have any sort of morale boost, yet he was still able to achieve it in 2 months. Goku, being even more of a genius, should be able to achieve it in even less than 2 months. Plus, if Vegeta refused to go in he'd only handicap himself and end up much weaker than Goku.

[OLKv3]

Even so, he should have gone in first and only told Vegeta after he came out.

The only way Vegeta would have agreed is if he went in first, so Goku had no choice. Plus as said, Vegeta proving that it can be done is a big boost to morale

Vegeta didn't have any sort of morale boost, yet he was still able to achieve it in 2 months. Goku, being even more of a genius, should be able to achieve it in even less than 2 months. Plus, if Vegeta refused to go in he'd only handicap himself and end up much weaker than Goku.

It's right in the scans man. Goku wanted more allies because he wasn't confident he could win on his own. The only way to get Vegeta to agree is if Vegeta went first, that was the deal. Otherwise, Vegeta at the time would have let them rot and gone off to do his own training somewhere else, or foolishly got himself killed rushing off to fight in rage

You're underestimating how selfish and prideful Vegeta was at that point, refusing any help unless he benefited first

[TheUltimateNinja]

The only way Vegeta would have agreed is if he went in first, so Goku had no choice. Plus as said, Vegeta proving that it can be done is a big boost to morale

Vegeta didn't have any sort of morale boost, yet he was still able to achieve it in 2 months. Goku, being even more of a genius, should be able to achieve it in even less than 2 months. Plus, if Vegeta refused to go in he'd only handicap himself and end up much weaker than Goku.

It's right in the scans man. Goku wanted more allies because he wasn't confident he could win on his own. The only way to get Vegeta to agree is if Vegeta went first, that was the deal. Otherwise, Vegeta at the time would have let them rot and gone off to do his own training somewhere else, or foolishly got himself killed rushing off to fight in rage

Or Goku could just lie and train first, then suppress his power and tell Vegeta he can go in first.

[OLKv3]

That'd be vastly out of character for Goku, it wouldn't be fair or sporting

[nickzambuto]

Even so, he should have gone in first and only told Vegeta after he came out.

The only way Vegeta would have agreed is if he went in first, so Goku had no choice. Plus as said, Vegeta proving that it can be done is a big boost to morale

Vegeta didn't have any sort of morale boost, yet he was still able to achieve it in 2 months. Goku, being even more of a genius, should be able to achieve it in even less than 2 months. Plus, if Vegeta refused to go in he'd only handicap himself and end up much weaker than Goku.

I'd like to contest that point of Goku being more of a genius than Vegeta. Genius implies natural ability, and obviously Vegeta was the saiyan prince who had already surpassed the saiyan king as a child, making him a prodigy among prodigies, while Goku was scum among scum. He trained all his life on earth and ultimately couldn't match the natural ability of Raditz. He needed training from the lord of an entire quadrant of the universe just to surpass Raditz and match Nappa, and then only match Vegeta with the use of Kaioken.

Look at the complex ki control Goku learned from Kami, one of the most vital and advanced techniques in the entire series. Goku didn't complete his training under Kami for a whole three years. It took him three years to perfect ki control and sensing. Vegeta is so much more of a prodigy than Goku that he simply needed to know such a thing was possible and he immediately started doing it on his own.

I'm not trying to patronize you, I'm sure you know all of this already. I'm just trying to show you a different way of seeing things.

As for their respective trips into the ROSAT, yes Goku did take the lead on Vegeta there. I don't think that's a matter of genius though, just Goku's different perspective. Vegeta foolishly thought only of power. Bigger muscles. Bigger explosions. More power power power stronger stronger stronger. That's how he came up with the Grade forms. Goku was wise enough to see that more power isn't everything and saw the value in the normal Super Saiyan form.

So yes, Goku certainly got the better of Vegeta in that particular instance, just as Vegeta has gotten the better of Goku in instances prior and since. As far as smarts go I think they are on par, but with different specialties. Vegeta is like a grand strategist, looking at the whole scope of the battle, manipulating his opponents to fall into his traps or otherwise, anticipating his opponent's strategy and evading it. Goku is more of a tactician, specializing in-the-moment with reactionary counters, whereas Vegeta isn't reactionary, he makes his opportunities.

When it came to the Androids arc, Goku's broad-mindedness gave him the edge over Vegeta, but Vegeta's precise strategies and manipulations have given him the edge at other times.

[TheUltimateNinja]

The only way Vegeta would have agreed is if he went in first, so Goku had no choice. Plus as said, Vegeta proving that it can be done is a big boost to morale

Vegeta didn't have any sort of morale boost, yet he was still able to achieve it in 2 months. Goku, being even more of a genius, should be able to achieve it in even less than 2 months. Plus, if Vegeta refused to go in he'd only handicap himself and end up much weaker than Goku.

I'd like to contest that point of Goku being more of a genius than Vegeta. Genius implies natural ability, and obviously Vegeta was the saiyan prince who had already surpassed the saiyan king as a child, making him a prodigy among prodigies, while Goku was scum among scum. He trained all his life on earth and ultimately couldn't match the natural ability of Raditz. He needed training from the lord of an entire quadrant of the universe just to surpass Raditz and match Nappa, and then only match Vegeta with the use of Kaioken.

Look at the complex ki control Goku learned from Kami, one of the most vital and advanced techniques in the entire series. Goku didn't complete his training under Kami for a whole three years. It took him three years to perfect ki control and sensing. Vegeta is so much more of a prodigy than Goku that he simply needed to know such a thing was possible and he immediately started doing it on his own.

I'm not trying to patronize you, I'm sure you know all of this already. I'm just trying to show you a different way of seeing things.

As for their respective trips into the ROSAT, yes Goku did take the lead on Vegeta there. I don't think that's a matter of genius though, just Goku's different perspective. Vegeta foolishly thought only of power. Bigger muscles. Bigger explosions. More power power power stronger stronger stronger. That's how he came up with the Grade forms. Goku was wise enough to see that more power isn't everything and saw the value in the normal Super Saiyan form.

So yes, Goku certainly got the better of Vegeta in that particular instance, just as Vegeta has gotten the better of Goku in instances prior and since. As far as smarts go I think they are on par, but with different specialties. Vegeta is like a grand strategist, looking at the whole scope of the battle, manipulating his opponents to fall into his traps or otherwise, anticipating his opponent's strategy and evading it. Goku is more of a tactician, specializing in-the-moment with reactionary counters, whereas Vegeta isn't reactionary, he makes his opportunities.

When it came to the Androids arc, Goku's broad-mindedness gave him the edge over Vegeta, but Vegeta's precise strategies and manipulations have given him the edge at other times.

Goku surpassed Nappa without the Kaioken and surpassed Vegeta with it.

Goku could already sense ki even before he trained under Kami, he found Piccolo Daimao by sensing his ki. Also, Goku was 15 at the time and Vegeta was nearly 30, and he already had experience with advanced ki manipulation unlike Goku.