Representations of Goku's character (GT & Super)

[tmak01]

I personally feel it is hard to make a decision on which version of Goku's character is better, GT's or Super's? I wold like to discuss this a little bit with you guys on the form. Both of those interpretations of his character is a little flawed though, as in Super he goes from idiot to selfish to idiot again and is not a mixture between those two. He is one or the other and seems to be one note a lot of the time. In GT though his body is a kid but not his mind. Yet GT acts as if his mind is also a kid's mind. Shouldn't his mind still be one of a adults? He has also seemed in GT to lose some of his rash decision making. (It has been a long time sense I have seen GT so some of these statements my be a little off.)

[Ripper 30]

I personally feel it is hard to make a decision on which version of Goku's character is better, GT's or Super's? I wold like to discuss this a little bit with you guys on the form. Both of those interpretations of his character is a little flawed though, as in Super he goes from idiot to selfish to idiot again and is not a mixture between those two. He is one or the other and seems to be one note a lot of the time. In GT though his body is a kid but not his mind. Yet GT acts as if his mind is also a kid's mind. Shouldn't his mind still be one of a adults? He has also seemed in GT to lose some of his rash decision making. (It has been a long time sense I have seen GT so some of these statements my be a little off.)

Whether goku is a kid or an adult he will always be a child at heart

[Chuquita]

They both have their flaws, but at least Super Gokû isn't boring, and he's physically an adult so my ship actually floats (even if it's got some holes in it atm). He's still at the mercy of whoever is writing him any given week, but at least he's an adult.

King Ryû does him justice; wherever he is. The other Super writers are hit or miss.

Them turning Gokû into a kid and never changing him back until the flash forward of the last episode is the thing I dislike most about GT. (No I don't count ssj4; they only made him magically revert to adulthood there because they realized furry ssj4 kid Gokû wouldn't look as cool). I'm glad I didn't follow GT week to week; that would've been torturous waiting and hoping they'd fix Gokû and then never getting the payoff.

[Ripper 30]

They both have their flaws, but at least Super Gokû isn't boring, and he's physically an adult so my ship actually floats (even if it's got some holes in it atm). He's still at the mercy of whoever is writing him any given week, but at least he's an adult.

King Ryû does him justice; wherever he is. The other Super writers are hit or miss.

Them turning Gokû into a kid and never changing him back until the flash forward of the last episode is the thing I dislike most about GT. (No I don't count ssj4; they only made him magically revert to adulthood there because they realized furry ssj4 kid Gokû wouldn't look as cool). I'm glad I didn't follow GT week to week; that would've been torturous waiting and hoping they'd fix Gokû and then never getting the payoff.

Kid goku in GT was not really that much of a bother specially when we got into the middle phase and atleast he wasn't as much as DB Super goku (specially in anime) where he is too much stupid like forgetting senzu or Mafuba pot

[successoroffate]

Am I the only one who sees Goku the same in all versions (DB, Z, Super, GT). He's still innocent, Careless, not very smart, naive, noble...

[Vijay]

Gt Goku suffers frm GT Syndrome (as in medical term, a syndrome is combination of 2 or more diseases in which for GT: inconsistent characterization, forced juvenile humor & wannabe epic savior moments which looks retarded like f@$#

Super Goku is in a league of his own. Magnify Gt Goku Syndrome10X. Dats Super Goku

[TheMikado]

GT attempts to recapture some of the fun of the original Dragonball. You can imagine some of his antics wouldnt go over so well as an Adult because thats Gokus personality. How ever in GT, Goku retains his character development of protecting the earth and generally being responsible for consequences. A good example is the Super 17 saga, Super Goku would have been happy to fit all his old enemies all over again because they emphasized that characteristic of him in Super. In GT they emphasize his child-like nature, sense of justice, and protective instincts especially towards Pan.

[TekTheNinja]

I'd say GT Goku was a little too mature, while Super Goku isn't nearly mature enough. Overall I prefer GT Goku since he's actually likable.

[ABED]

They both have their flaws, but at least Super Gokû isn't boring, and he's physically an adult so my ship actually floats (even if it's got some holes in it atm). He's still at the mercy of whoever is writing him any given week, but at least he's an adult.

King Ryû does him justice; wherever he is. The other Super writers are hit or miss.

Them turning Gokû into a kid and never changing him back until the flash forward of the last episode is the thing I dislike most about GT. (No I don't count ssj4; they only made him magically revert to adulthood there because they realized furry ssj4 kid Gokû wouldn't look as cool). I'm glad I didn't follow GT week to week; that would've been torturous waiting and hoping they'd fix Gokû and then never getting the payoff.

He's physically a kid, but he's not actually a kid. I don't know why you think it's such a problem.

Yet GT acts as if his mind is also a kid's mind. Shouldn't his mind still be one of a adults? He has also seemed in GT to lose some of his rash decision making. (It has been a long time sense I have seen GT so some of these statements my be a little off.)

He still has his adult mind, but Goku has always been a manchild regardless of his age. In fact, GT shows his protectiveness towards his family more than I think even Z did.

[ekrolo2]

They both have their flaws, but at least Super Gokû isn't boring, and he's physically an adult so my ship actually floats (even if it's got some holes in it atm). He's still at the mercy of whoever is writing him any given week, but at least he's an adult.

King Ryû does him justice; wherever he is. The other Super writers are hit or miss.

Them turning Gokû into a kid and never changing him back until the flash forward of the last episode is the thing I dislike most about GT. (No I don't count ssj4; they only made him magically revert to adulthood there because they realized furry ssj4 kid Gokû wouldn't look as cool). I'm glad I didn't follow GT week to week; that would've been torturous waiting and hoping they'd fix Gokû and then never getting the payoff.

He's physically a kid, but he's not actually a kid. I don't know why you think it's such a problem.

Yet GT acts as if his mind is also a kid's mind. Shouldn't his mind still be one of a adults? He has also seemed in GT to lose some of his rash decision making. (It has been a long time sense I have seen GT so some of these statements my be a little off.)

He still has his adult mind, but Goku has always been a manchild regardless of his age. In fact, GT shows his protectiveness towards his family more than I think even Z did.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's bothered by this notion that Goku getting turned into a kid somehow removes everything he did/learned after beating Daimao which it doesn't: he's a 50-year-old man in the body of his kid self and all the memories he's acquired throughout his whole life. Yet everyone acts like the Black Star DBs mind wiped him too.

And you are right about GT Goku being more protective towards his family and the Earth, when he thinks Baby's going to win, he isn't thinking "Oh man! Guess I'll have to come back and fight stronger next time!" like he did when Vegeta almost killed him, he's lamenting the fact he's going to fail his adopted home and his family by losing.

[Chuquita]

They both have their flaws, but at least Super Gokû isn't boring, and he's physically an adult so my ship actually floats (even if it's got some holes in it atm). He's still at the mercy of whoever is writing him any given week, but at least he's an adult.

King Ryû does him justice; wherever he is. The other Super writers are hit or miss.

Them turning Gokû into a kid and never changing him back until the flash forward of the last episode is the thing I dislike most about GT. (No I don't count ssj4; they only made him magically revert to adulthood there because they realized furry ssj4 kid Gokû wouldn't look as cool). I'm glad I didn't follow GT week to week; that would've been torturous waiting and hoping they'd fix Gokû and then never getting the payoff.

He's physically a kid, but he's not actually a kid. I don't know why you think it's such a problem.

It's the aesthetic. Adult Z Gokû looks so cool in battle; similar reason as to why he physically grew up in the manga (it's easier to do battle scenes when the martial artists have long limbs).

I like original DB kid Gokû fine, but you can't substitute GT Gokû and expect me to think of him as DB Gokû.

It also ruins the ships. He can't be shipped with anyone if he's been cursed into a child's body. Chi-Chi's suitably upset about it in GT; Vegeta doesn't even get a chance to react about his rival.

[ABED]

I realize battle scenes are likely easier with characters who have long limbs, but that was the least of GT's problems in the action department. Goku is Goku regardless of his physical age. And Goku's relationship with Chichi was never that interesting. When I think of ships I think Lucas/Peyton, Logan/Veronica, Ross/Rachel, Sam/Diane. Goku/Chichi doesn't even crack the top 20.

[Chuquita]

It's just opinion then. You're not going to get me to change my opinion. Dismissing others' opinions or preferences while saying yours are better won't get them to agree with you. This isn't about Marvel or classic sitcoms which are completely different beasts aimed at completely different audiences, it's about GT.

GT has lots of problems and Gokû being turned into a kid and never turned back was a big one for me. I don't like it and I listed my reasons why and that's all I got.

[ABED]

It's just opinion then. You're not going to get me to change my opinion. Dismissing others' opinions or preferences while saying yours are better won't get them to agree with you. This isn't about Marvel or classic sitcoms which are completely different beasts aimed at completely different audiences, it's about GT.

GT has lots of problems and Gokû being turned into a kid and never turned back was a big one for me. I don't like it and I listed my reasons why and that's all I got.

I didn't dismiss it. I disagreed with it. I never said mine was better. You make it sound like I wrote "Your opinion sucks, it's wrong, and you should feel bad about it!" I just disagreed. And regarding your opinion on ships, it's not that kind of show. The only person he was shipped with was Chichi and it was hardly that big of a deal to begin with so I don't see your point. We never saw anything between them except that one time after he woke from his heart virus and I think much of that was filler. I fail to see what GT being different has to do with this issue.

[Cipher]

I don't know where everyone is pulling this idea from that Goku is treated as a child in GT, apart from the much put-upon Pan. I also don't know why everyone is acting as if he's written so much younger, a handful of typical gags concerning his tactlessness aside (and I'd argue anyway that reverting to a child's physiological body actually would be accompanied by some loss of maturity).

GT does seem to diminish the toxic sides of Goku's need for challenge, at least to the extent that he doesn't have much joy to show over the likes of Baby, Super 17 or the more powerful Evil Dragons. At the same time, he is more than willing to play around with lesser opponents such as Mutchi, the Sigma Force, and Rilld -- so at least when friends and family aren't in immediate danger, hyper-bored Goku is still in play. One could argue his lower tolerance for the main villains is in line with the no-nonsense attitude he shows at the end of the Boo arc, or befits their nature as villains, such as the body-stealing Baby, and I could go either way on that. What is super interesting to me about GT's Goku is his seeming death wish, which I have a feeling is an accidental, but nevertheless consistent and fitting, element of the series. He's far more willing to accept defeat against, or sacrifice himself to stop, the main villains than he ever is in the manga. This is a Goku who's seen and done it all, and for whom the boredom that sets in at the end of the Boo arc hasn't lifted.

Anyway, regardless of his carefree nature and child body, there are plenty of times in GT where Goku shows the wisdom of his years. His conversations with #18 and Kuririn at the end of the last two arcs are highlights, but by no means isolated examples. Nozawa even plays him differently from his true childhood years to reflect the difference in scripts. He feels reasonably in-character to me given a universe in which Goku's boredom is not fully lifted by Oob.

We don't get much of a continued arc for him in GT, but that works for me to an extent, as I think it successfully shifts away from being his story (despite his centrality), and becomes more of an epilogue to the world as a whole. Pan relieves some of that burden as well. Goku's just the big gun, but his character works for me given where he'd be at the time.

Super endeavors to continue his arc as a central character a bit more, finally, in its third storyline written originally for serialization, paying off on his personal flaws in the context of the larger world it's set up. Whether that payoff will be successful is too early to call, but I do appreciate it, at least in a long series that aims to keep Goku as the protagonist.

What that payoff won't change, however, is how spotty and hyperbolic his character-writing has been for more than seventy weeks. In particular, Toei's scripts have a habit of playing up Goku's naivety and ignorance for jokes at his expense, an avenue for humor Toriyama dropped prior to the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai. Attention to his faults is appreciated, but the execution is too much, too manic, by half.

[Doctor.]

He feels reasonably in-character to me

Leaving this here.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Cipher]

Leaving this here.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

I mean, what do you want him to say? This isn't him having to grapple with his heritage. He's responding to Baby, who's using an outdated grudge to enslave an innocent planet where Goku happens to have made his home (in addition to killing however many people on his way to Earth).

It isn't any less consistent than Goku claiming he'll defeat Freeza for all the Saiyans he killed, while also claiming they already paid for their actions.

This is less, "I'm not a Saiyan and refuse to acknowledge my heritage," and more a "Screw you; that has nothing to do with what you're doing on Earth."

[Doctor.]

He's responding to Baby, who's using an outdated grudge to enslave an innocent planet where Goku happens to have made his home.

So... like this?

[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

Make no mistake, the two situations are identical. And yet, he gives two different responses in both series.

[Cipher]

So... like this?

[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

Make no mistake, the two situations are identical. And yet, he gives two different responses in both series.

Might have slipped that in with an edit while you were readying this post.

It's no different than him acknowledging the pride of the Saiyans in the manga while claiming they'd already gotten the fate they deserved. (At the beginning of his fight against Freeza and in the pages you posted, respectively.)

Baby is arriving four decades too late to take revenge on the Saiyans; they're all gone.

[Doctor.]

It's no different than him acknowledging the pride of the Saiyans in the manga while claiming they'd already gotten the fate they deserved. (At the beginning of his fight against Freeza and in the pages you posted, respectively.)

Baby is arriving four decades too late to take revenge on the Saiyans; they're all gone.

Yeah, but he doesn't renounce his heritage. He acknowledges their shortcomings whilst still identifying as one. "Yeah, I know we fucked up, but that era is over. This is about you now."

What he says to Baby is completely different. Baby accuses him of being cowardly and barbaric, because he's a Saiyan, and what does Goku do? He proves him right by refusing to identify as a Saiyan. He's being cowardly by refusing to take responsibility for what the Saiyans did... which is, well, the exact opposite of what Namek arc Goku did.