Why do people think that Android arc Trunks>Mecha arc Trunks?

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

The original dialogue is a bit different.

Gohan: “F-father can win…”
Piccolo: “We can’t know that…Their power far surpasses our understanding…”

Viz's translation indicates that it's well above what they're possibly able to fathom or understand, whereas the original doesn't indicate it's beyond what they could ever comprehend, just that it's unbelievable for them to be that strong, which is a noticeable difference.

It means the same exact thing. Goku and Freeza's powers far surpassed what they were able to understand, so they could not tell who was stronger.

With Gohan, their reactions were of shock and bewilderment of how strong he was rather than wondering how strong he was.

Nobody could tell that Gohan>Cell until they saw the two fight. That's because just like Goku & Freeza, the powers of Gohan & Cell far surpassed anyone elses comprehension.

As for Tenshinhan's comments, nothing indicates he was unable to comprehend or fathom how powerful Ssj Goku was in either occasion, and the very fact that he's now commenting on how powerful Goku was and how amazing his strength is, when before he made no such comments, suggests that Goku's then current power was more amazing to him than before.

Tien doesn't indicate that what he felt was greater than before. It's just amazement at how big a Super Saiyan's power is. There isn't anything indicating that he pinpointed Goku's Super Saiyan power from Yardrat and compared it to Sick Goku's power in the Android arc. To Tien, Goku's Super Saiyan ki is just a power that's absurdly larger than his own.

By his own words, following the encounter you're referring to in the anime special, he was shocked and amazed that he managed to make it home alive, and considered the gap between him and #17 and #18 too huge. Now, obviously, as you said, it's subjective, but the gap being "too huge" and being lucky to have made it back home alive doesn't come across as what one would consider a "close fight" or "fairly well".

He was lucky to come back home alive since they could've killed him due to far superior strength. I don't see how that refutes Trunks putting up a fight that falls under "fairly well".

-He put up a decent fight, but lost to their overwhelming power.
-He was lucky to come back alive.

As I already said, gaps aren't consistent. Goku vs Nappa is an example.

[dragonball0900]

Tien doesn't indicate that what he felt was greater than before. It's just amazement at how big a Super Saiyan's power is. There isn't anything indicating that he pinpointed Goku's Super Saiyan power from Yardrat and compared it to Sick Goku's power in the Android arc. To Tien, Goku's Super Saiyan ki is just a power that's absurdly larger than his own.

By that logic, Gohan would also fall in the category, since he was also like more than 50 times weaker than the SSJ power Goku was. But he still knew how weak Goku has become. So that means that Tien should also know how weak Goku has become, but he didn't because he wasn't training with him during the 3 year gap like Gohan does. The story also seems to imply that way, that Goku was stronger than his Yadrat self, judging by the Z humans' statements, but it would be below his normal full power with the statements Piccolo AND Gohan said.

As I already said, gaps aren't consistent. Goku vs Nappa is an example.

Nappa's 4,000 should not necesary be his full power. Maybe it's just the power he used against the rest of the Z warriors. Nappa fought well against Goku, who complimented him and said it will take him a long time to defeat him. That's plenty of evidence that says that Nappa's 4,000 is wrong for the time he fought Goku. Nappa should probably be like 7,000 in order to have a small gap that manages to make Goku hard to defeat him.

[Asura]

What the hell is the Mecha arc? I mean, I obviously know now due to the context of the replies of this thread, but why on earth would you call it the "Mecha arc"? I would argue the period of time where Trunks arrives to kill Freeza is the beginning of the Android arc, and certainly not its own thing given it lasts like...an entire episode or two?

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

By that logic, Gohan would also fall in the category, since he was also like more than 50 times weaker than the SSJ power Goku was. But he still knew how weak Goku has become. So that means that Tien should also know how weak Goku has become, but he didn't because he wasn't training with him during the 3 year gap like Gohan does. The story also seems to imply that way, that Goku was stronger than his Yadrat self, judging by the Z humans' statements, but it would be below his normal full power with the statements Piccolo AND Gohan said.

Tien doesn't give any indication to Goku's level. The only logic that's been used so far is a reach. The only thing he remarks on is his amazement of how big a Super Saiyan's power is compared to his own. Nobody in the story ever compared Sick Goku to Yardrat Goku, so saying that "the story seemed to imply it" is once again, a massive stretch.

Piccolo and Gohan knew how much weaker Goku was because they trained with him. That's the only thing meant to be taken from the scene, not some obscure "implications" of Sick Goku being stronger than Yardrat Goku.

Nappa's 4,000 should not necesary be his full power. Maybe it's just the power he used against the rest of the Z warriors. Nappa fought well against Goku, who complimented him and said it will take him a long time to defeat him. That's plenty of evidence that says that Nappa's 4,000 is wrong for the time he fought Goku. Nappa should probably be like 7,000 in order to have a small gap that manages to make Goku hard to defeat him.

There is no evidence anywhere for Nappa being greater than 4,000.

[dragonball0900]

Tien doesn't give any indication to Goku's level. The only logic that's been used so far is a reach. The only thing he remarks on is his amazement of how big a Super Saiyan's power is compared to his own. Nobody in the story ever compared Sick Goku to Yardrat Goku, so saying that "the story seemed to imply it" is once again, a massive stretch.

Piccolo and Gohan knew how much weaker Goku was because they trained with him. That's the only thing meant to be taken from the scene, not some obscure "implications" of Sick Goku being stronger than Yardrat Goku.

The fact that no one compared him to Yadrat Goku is full evidence to prove that Sick Goku is indeed stronger than Yadrat Goku. If this Sick Goku was weaker than Yadrat Goku then Tien, Krillin and Yamcha would have surely pointed out, since they sensed his power 3 years ago, they would have said something like how Goku's power hadn't change, but they didn't.
Piccolo and Gohan knew that because they trained with him, but only because of the wide gap they have it doesn't mean they wouldn't know who is stronger than who. Gohan was still leagues below SSJ Goku, so if we follow your logic of the strong guys being "far from the weaklings' understanding" then that should have been applied to Gohan in the Android arc. But it didn't, because Gohan did know how strong weak Goku was. That means that we shouldn't really trust that much into the "this ki is far from our understanding" statements, because they will contradict every time.

There is no evidence anywhere for Nappa being greater than 4,000.

As I told you in my post above. If Nappa was nothing more than 4,000, then Goku with a power of more than 8,000 wouldn't have need the kaioken against him. He wouldn't have also compliment him, and saying that his battle against him would take a very long time. Vegeta also said that if he calms down, he would be able to something.
It's clear that someone that is half the strenght of someone else is already an overkill. You should be also aware that even a x1.25 of difference between the opponents can mean a beating too. Just look at the fights of Vegeta vs Monster Zarbon (first round), and Goku Kaioken X2 vs Vegeta.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

The fact that no one compared him to Yadrat Goku is full evidence to prove that Sick Goku is indeed stronger than Yadrat Goku. If this Sick Goku was weaker than Yadrat Goku then Tien, Krillin and Yamcha would have surely pointed out, since they sensed his power 3 years ago, they would have said something like how Goku's power hadn't change, but they didn't.
Piccolo and Gohan knew that because they trained with him, but only because of the wide gap they have it doesn't mean they wouldn't know who is stronger than who. Gohan was still leagues below SSJ Goku, so if we follow your logic of the strong guys being "far from the weaklings' understanding" then that should have been applied to Gohan in the Android arc. But it didn't, because Gohan did know how strong weak Goku was. That means that we shouldn't really trust that much into the "this ki is far from our understanding" statements, because they will contradict every time.

No, it doesn't since Tien isn't comparing Goku's ki now to Goku's ki 3 years ago. I don't know why this is so hard to understand. Tien is just amazed at how much stronger the ki is compared to his own. And there isn't any evidence that Tien even pinpointed SSJ Yardrat Goku's level. Merely being near Goku while he's an SSJ doesn't mean anything.
Not sure how Gohan being able to tell that Goku is weaker than usual has to do with Tien. If Gohan can comprehend Goku's level, but Tien isn't shown to be able to, then that means he can but Tien can't. So what?

As I told you in my post above. If Nappa was nothing more than 4,000, then Goku with a power of more than 8,000 wouldn't have need the kaioken against him. He wouldn't have also compliment him, and saying that his battle against him would take a very long time. Vegeta also said that if he calms down, he would be able to something.
It's clear that someone that is half the strenght of someone else is already an overkill. You should be also aware that even a x1.25 of difference between the opponents can mean a beating too. Just look at the fights of Vegeta vs Monster Zarbon (first round), and Goku Kaioken X2 vs Vegeta.

No, that just means that gaps aren't consistent. Some fighters can crush others with a 1.25x gap, others fighters cannot.

[dragonball0900]

The fact that no one compared him to Yadrat Goku is full evidence to prove that Sick Goku is indeed stronger than Yadrat Goku. If this Sick Goku was weaker than Yadrat Goku then Tien, Krillin and Yamcha would have surely pointed out, since they sensed his power 3 years ago, they would have said something like how Goku's power hadn't change, but they didn't.
Piccolo and Gohan knew that because they trained with him, but only because of the wide gap they have it doesn't mean they wouldn't know who is stronger than who. Gohan was still leagues below SSJ Goku, so if we follow your logic of the strong guys being "far from the weaklings' understanding" then that should have been applied to Gohan in the Android arc. But it didn't, because Gohan did know how strong weak Goku was. That means that we shouldn't really trust that much into the "this ki is far from our understanding" statements, because they will contradict every time.

No, it doesn't since Tien isn't comparing Goku's ki now to Goku's ki 3 years ago. I don't know why this is so hard to understand. Tien is just amazed at how much stronger the ki is compared to his own. And there isn't any evidence that Tien even pinpointed SSJ Yardrat Goku's level. Merely being near Goku while he's an SSJ doesn't mean anything.
Not sure how Gohan being able to tell that Goku is weaker than usual has to do with Tien. If Gohan can comprehend Goku's level, but Tien isn't shown to be able to, then that means he can but Tien can't. So what?

You don't understand what I'm saying. Tien being shocked at his power, and NOT saying anything about his power being weaker in comparison to 3 years ago is more than proof that Sick Goku is still stronger than Yadrat Goku. I agree with you that Tien was amazed at how strong Goku's ki was in comparison to his own, and I KNOW he wasn't comparing Yadrat Goku with this Goku. BUT if this Goku was weaker than Yadrat Goku then Tien would've noticed it like how Gohan and Piccolo did, although a little less.

I use Gohan here to prove your statement of "the weaker guys can't know properly how strong a very strong character is since it's far from their understanding" wrong. Gohan was far far far below SSJ Goku just like how Tien was, and if Gohan was able to tell how strong Goku was as a SSJ then Tien can do the same too, since they are both leagues away from SSJ Goku.

No, that just means that gaps aren't consistent. Some fighters can crush others with a 1.25x gap, others fighters cannot.

Tell me a fight that is just a 1.25x gap where the character who is stronger is not able to dominate completely the other one. I want to hear one. The Goku vs Nappa fight completely demostrates that Nappa is not just 4,000, but more like between 6,500-7,500, since Goku is more than 8,000. They had a tough battle, and was only interrupted by Vegeta. I don't know how a 4,000 number would work that way.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

You don't understand what I'm saying. Tien being shocked at his power, and NOT saying anything about his power being weaker in comparison to 3 years ago is more than proof that Sick Goku is still stronger than Yadrat Goku. I agree with you that Tien was amazed at how strong Goku's ki was in comparison to his own, and I KNOW he wasn't comparing Yadrat Goku with this Goku. BUT if this Goku was weaker than Yadrat Goku then Tien would've noticed it like how Gohan and Piccolo did, although a little less.

No, absolutely not. That doesn't make any sort of sense and there isn't any indication that the scene is meant to be interpreted that way. That kind of obscure logic has never held water, no matter the instance that's being assessed in the series. That same logic is the justification for pre rosat Gotenks>Boo even though he's weaker than Vegeta as stated in the Daizenshuu. The "but Piccolo didn't say he was weaker than Boo" argument.
As I already said before, there isn't any indication that Tien pinpointed SSJ Yardrat Goku's level in the first place. To him, it was just a huge ki.

I use Gohan here to prove your statement of "the weaker guys can't know properly how strong a very strong character is since it's far from their understanding" wrong. Gohan was far far far below SSJ Goku just like how Tien was, and if Gohan was able to tell how strong Goku was as a SSJ then Tien can do the same too, since they are both leagues away from SSJ Goku.

All this tells me is that Gohan can assess Goku's level, but Tien can't.
Now the question is, why would Gohan be better accustomed to assessing a Super Saiyan's power? Seems really obvious that it's because he trained with Goku, but you don't have to accept that explanation. All we know is that Gohan can while Tien hasn't been shown to be able to.

Tell me a fight that is just a 1.25x gap where the character who is stronger is not able to dominate completely the other one. I want to hear one. The Goku vs Nappa fight completely demostrates that Nappa is not just 4,000, but more like between 6,500-7,500, since Goku is more than 8,000. They had a tough battle, and was only interrupted by Vegeta. I don't know how a 4,000 number would work that way.

Nappa is stated to be 4,000. It's just your word vs official material. There is no law when it comes to gaps.

[VegetaSSJBlue]

Nappa is stated to be 4,000. It's just your word vs official material. There is no law when it comes to gaps.

Official? Yes. Canon? NO.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Nappa is stated to be 4,000. It's just your word vs official material. There is no law when it comes to gaps.

Official? Yes. Canon? NO.

Official and Canon mean the same thing. There is only canonicity to the franchise as a whole, nothing else. If something is a part of the franchise, it's canon. The only relevant topic among official material is continuity and that doesn't apply here either.

[dragonball0900]

No, absolutely not. That doesn't make any sort of sense and there isn't any indication that the scene is meant to be interpreted that way. That kind of obscure logic has never held water, no matter the instance that's being assessed in the series. That same logic is the justification for pre rosat Gotenks>Boo even though he's weaker than Vegeta as stated in the Daizenshuu. The "but Piccolo didn't say he was weaker than Boo" argument.
As I already said before, there isn't any indication that Tien pinpointed SSJ Yardrat Goku's level in the first place. To him, it was just a huge ki.

I'm trying to tell you that even though Tien didn't make any reference of Yadrat Goku, that would still be proof for Yadrat Goku to be weaker. And I'm not talking about just Tien here, I'm talking about Krillin and Yamcha too, who didn't say anything about Goku's strenght being weaker than before, that's more proof for this Sick Goku to be stronger than Yadrat Goku.

All this tells me is that Gohan can assess Goku's level, but Tien can't.
Now the question is, why would Gohan be better accustomed to assessing a Super Saiyan's power? Seems really obvious that it's because he trained with Goku, but you don't have to accept that explanation. All we know is that Gohan can while Tien hasn't been shown to be able to.

Wouldn't that mean that he is still far above Gohan's understandings? Super Saiyan Goku was completely in a different dimension from Gohan. And Gohan would not able to tell how strong Goku was since Goku was also getting stronger than his Yadrat self. But somehow, Gohan did know Goku's power. That means that the whole "not being able to know how strong someone is just because his power is far above understandings" thing is not something we should really take seriously.

Nappa is stated to be 4,000. It's just your word vs official material. There is no law when it comes to gaps.

It's not my word. It's what the manga is showing us. It clearly appears in the manga how the fight was. Statements from Goku, his compliments, how the fight was very tough, how Goku stated that he would need Kaioken X2 to be able to chase Nappa to prevent him to kill Gohan and Krillin. There are a LOT of evidences that show that Nappa was a lot more than 4,000.

And there is indeed indirectly a law of gaps, Vegeta vs Cui, Monster Zarbon vs Vegeta (first round) and Kaioken X2 Goku vs Vegeta are good examples. Also, another fantastic example that shows us that rule is Captain Ginyu vs Kaioken X2 Goku. Goku was 180,000 while Ginyu was 120,000, 1.5 times of difference. And if Captain Ginyu was NOTHING in comparison to Goku, then how can someone with a 4,000 power level would be able to fight someone with a more than 8,000 of power if the difference is more than 2 times?

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

I'm trying to tell you that even though Tien didn't make any reference of Yadrat Goku, that would still be proof for Yadrat Goku to be weaker. And I'm not talking about just Tien here, I'm talking about Krillin and Yamcha too, who didn't say anything about Goku's strenght being weaker than before, that's more proof for this Sick Goku to be stronger than Yadrat Goku.

I know what you're saying. It's wrong and other conclusions that were arrived at using the same logic are directly contradicted by official material. So the "he didn't say anything" excuse doesn't hold water ever. There isn't any implication that the scene should be interpreted that way.
None of the Z-fighters know bar Gohan and Piccolo were shown to ever know anything about Goku's exact level. To them, it's just a very big ki.

Wouldn't that mean that he is still far above Gohan's understandings? Super Saiyan Goku was completely in a different dimension from Gohan. And Gohan would not able to tell how strong Goku was since Goku was also getting stronger than his Yadrat self. But somehow, Gohan did know Goku's power. That means that the whole "not being able to know how strong someone is just because his power is far above understandings" thing is not something we should really take seriously.

Gohan knew Android arc Goku's level. Tien was not shown to know about any version of SSJ Goku's level.

It's not my word. It's what the manga is showing us. It clearly appears in the manga how the fight was. Statements from Goku, his compliments, how the fight was very tough, how Goku stated that he would need Kaioken X2 to be able to chase Nappa to prevent him to kill Gohan and Krillin. There are a LOT of evidences that show that Nappa was a lot more than 4,000.

And there is indeed indirectly a law of gaps, Vegeta vs Cui, Monster Zarbon vs Vegeta (first round) and Kaioken X2 Goku vs Vegeta are good examples. Also, another fantastic example that shows us that rule is Captain Ginyu vs Kaioken X2 Goku. Goku was 180,000 while Ginyu was 120,000, 1.5 times of difference. And if Captain Ginyu was NOTHING in comparison to Goku, then how can someone with a 4,000 power level would be able to fight someone with a more than 8,000 of power if the difference is more than 2 times?

Yes, it is your word. Goku said that the fight was tough. That doesn't mean that Nappa's power level was greater than 4,000. Nothing in the manga stated that Nappa was greater than 4,000, so no that wasn't shown. Only reason why you think it's a problem is because you want gaps to be 100% consistent. Goku was a lot stronger, but Nappa could still put up a fight.

[miguelnuva1]

Nothing in the manga says Nappa was 4,000.

[Tectorman]

Nothing in the manga says Nappa was 4,000.

I've got to agree with this. The only thing I recall that might imply that is when Nappa doesn't believe it when Vegeta reports an approaching figure with a power of 5,000. The implication apparently being "5,000 > Nappa".

Thing is, Nappa has reasons to disbelieve 5,000, none of which mean "5,000 > Nappa".

* The Saiyans have been trashing the Z Fighters, pretty much with impunity, and even allowed a three hour break. If anyone with that kind of power had been there, wouldn't they have shown up sooner? Far more plausible to assume a broken Scouter.

* Last they heard, Goku was the weakling that Raditz had hilariously outclassed. Now, one year later, he's that strong? Can't be done, as far as they know. Far more plausible to assume a broken Scouter.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

The logic being used makes no sense. Nappa doesn't need to be stated to be 4,000 in the manga. He was stated to be 4,000 in the Daizenshuu, an official authority. He wasn't stated to be above 4,000 in the manga, so I don't know what people are even trying to say here.

[dragonball0900]

I know what you're saying. It's wrong and other conclusions that were arrived at using the same logic are directly contradicted by official material. So the "he didn't say anything" excuse doesn't hold water ever. There isn't any implication that the scene should be interpreted that way.
None of the Z-fighters know bar Gohan and Piccolo were shown to ever know anything about Goku's exact level. To them, it's just a very big ki.

Gohan knew Android arc Goku's level. Tien was not shown to know about any version of SSJ Goku's level.

Tien, as well as Krillin and Yamcha, KNEW Yadrat Goku's strenght, yet he didn't compare him to Sick Goku from 3 years later. If Sick Goku was weaker than Yadrat Goku, then Tien, as well as Krillin and Yamcha, would have surely pointed out, since they knew Goku's strenght from 3 years ago.

Yes, it is your word. Goku said that the fight was tough. That doesn't mean that Nappa's power level was greater than 4,000. Nothing in the manga stated that Nappa was greater than 4,000, so no that wasn't shown. Only reason why you think it's a problem is because you want gaps to be 100% consistent. Goku was a lot stronger, but Nappa could still put up a fight.

It is stated. Just read that part again, Nappa was able to be equal to Goku. Also, when Nappa was going to kill Gohan and Krillin, Goku said he wasn't able to catch him so he had to use Kaioken. If Nappa was just 4,000 then surely Goku would have easily chase him. Vegeta also said Nappa might have a chance to defeat Goku. A 4,000 level would never be able to do that against a more than 8,000 level.

And I don't see how gaps are inconsistent, there was NEVER a moment where that happened. The only moment where there was ever a similar instance was Goku vs Frieza, but that can be justified by how Goku was able to dominate Frieza all the time, as well as his statements about that there's no use to fight him. As I said, there was never an instance where the gaps were inconsistent. Kaioken Goku vs Vegeta, Cui vs Vegeta, Monster Zarbon (first round) vs Vegeta, Ginyu vs Kaioken Goku, these are various battles that show that even a 1.125 of gap is able to dominate someone else. And in the case of Ginyu vs Goku Kaioken X2, a 1.5 is just a one shoot.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Tien, as well as Krillin and Yamcha, KNEW Yadrat Goku's strenght, yet he didn't compare him to Sick Goku from 3 years later. If Sick Goku was weaker than Yadrat Goku, then Tien, as well as Krillin and Yamcha, would have surely pointed out, since they knew Goku's strenght from 3 years ago.

No, they just felt a huge ki. They were never shown to comprehend it to the point of being able to accurately gauge Goku's level unlike the people that trained with him.

It is stated. Just read that part again, Nappa was able to be equal to Goku. Also, when Nappa was going to kill Gohan and Krillin, Goku said he wasn't able to catch him so he had to use Kaioken. If Nappa was just 4,000 then surely Goku would have easily chase him. Vegeta also said Nappa might have a chance to defeat Goku. A 4,000 level would never be able to do that against a more than 8,000 level.

And I don't see how gaps are inconsistent, there was NEVER a moment where that happened. The only moment where there was ever a similar instance was Goku vs Frieza, but that can be justified by how Goku was able to dominate Frieza all the time, as well as his statements about that there's no use to fight him. As I said, there was never an instance where the gaps were inconsistent. Kaioken Goku vs Vegeta, Cui vs Vegeta, Monster Zarbon (first round) vs Vegeta, Ginyu vs Kaioken Goku, these are various battles that show that even a 1.125 of gap is able to dominate someone else. And in the case of Ginyu vs Goku Kaioken X2, a 1.5 is just a one shoot.

No it was never stated that Nappa is above 4,000. You think that he should be above 4,000 based on his performance, but that doesn't change the fact that his power level on the official level is 4,000.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Why would Trunks just waste his time for 8 months/3 years instead of training?

[dragonball0900]

No, they just felt a huge ki. They were never shown to comprehend it to the point of being able to accurately gauge Goku's level unlike the people that trained with him.

Except that they already HAD felt Yadrat Goku's power earlier. Even though they just felt a huge ki, they would have surely pointed out that something was happening with Goku since, I repeat, they KNEW Yadrat Goku's strenght. But they didn't ponited it out. It's being explained clearly.

No it was never stated that Nappa is above 4,000. You think that he should be above 4,000 based on his performance, but that doesn't change the fact that his power level on the official level is 4,000.

It's not directly stated, it's indirectly stated. I don't know why it is that hard to get it. Nappa was fighting great against Goku! A 4,000 would never be able to do that against a more than 8,000 level!

The official 4,000 number could easily be referring to the level Nappa used against the other Z fighters. It can be tell by how poorly Nappa performed against Goku before he calmed down and fought seriously.

Also, maybe the official number is wrong. What we see in the manga > Contradicting Numbers. The same happens with the 180 number and the 260 number of Goku, Tien and Piccolo Daimao. Those numbers don't make sense either.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Except that they already HAD felt Yadrat Goku's power earlier. Even though they just felt a huge ki, they would have surely pointed out that something was happening with Goku since, I repeat, they KNEW Yadrat Goku's strenght. But they didn't ponited it out. It's being explained clearly.

Feeling Yardrat Goku's ki doesn't mean anything, since it's just a huge ki to them. They can't accurately assess it's level.

It's not directly stated, it's indirectly stated. I don't know why it is that hard to get it. Nappa was fighting great against Goku! A 4,000 would never be able to do that against a more than 8,000 level!

The official 4,000 number could easily be referring to the level Nappa used against the other Z fighters. It can be tell by how poorly Nappa performed against Goku before he calmed down and fought seriously.

Also, maybe the official number is wrong. What we see in the manga > Contradicting Numbers. The same happens with the 180 number and the 260 number of Goku, Tien and Piccolo Daimao. Those numbers don't make sense either.

It's not possible to indirectly state a number. Goku didn't even say anything like "he's close to my power". That's as close to as "indirectly stated" as you would get in this situation.
No it was never stated at all that Nappa's power level exceeds 4,000. Nappa's better performance was entirely credited due to him calming down and being more focused.