Vegeta is a jobber does he rightfully deserve it?

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Vegeta is a jobber does he rightfully deserve it?

Post by Totamo » Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:15 pm

Ever since his debut, vegeta has been made the villain buffer but he is also the reasons the villains get that strong in the first place.

Does vegeta deserve better or does he just pay for his actions?

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Re: Vegeta is a jobber does he rightfully deserve it?

Post by Chuquita » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:25 pm

You could argue that it's in universe karma for all the planets whose people he killed. He did so many horrible deeds in the first 30 years of his life that the universe is punishing him by having him fail or be upstaged or be humiliated or humbled to the point where he's not really a threat anymore.
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Re: Vegeta is a jobber does he rightfully deserve it?

Post by sintzu » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:51 pm

In entire franchise he was the only villain they couldn't defeat, instead it was him not thinking about where Gohan would fall after HE cut off his tail. if he would've moved they would've been done. they survived on luck, nothing more.

In the Freeza arc he was the 2nd strongest "hero" after Goku.

In the Cell arc Gohan couldn't have killed Cell without him distracting him.

In the Buu arc his job was just to hold Kid Buu off Goku and he did that.

In BOG he was the only one to be able to do anything to Beerus, he also surpassed Goku while doing so.

In the RF arc he was the only one who was able to beat down Freeza.

In the Champa arc he got 4 fights in the tournament.

In the manga's Black arc he was the only one who fought Black, making him the arc's main protagonist, something that's never happened before for him or anyone else and Black the 1st villain Goku didn't fight.

Yeah, what a jobber. :lol: :crazy:
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Re: Vegeta is a jobber does he rightfully deserve it?

Post by Beyond » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:14 pm

He deserved in Z for sure. A lot of people had to go full idiot to allow the cell saga to work. Vegeta isn't one of them, and he got what he was looking for. Same thing when he allowed Frieza to transform because "he couldn't get that much stronger". Same thing when he allowed Buu to be created because "he couldn't be that strong". In super he doesn't deserve it, but in Z every ass kicking he got was earned. It's not even debatable.

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Re: Vegeta is a jobber does he rightfully deserve it?

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:28 pm

I wouldn't say Vegeta is a "jobber"... per se. I mean, he does lose to a lot of villains for the purpose of hyping them up, but so do the majority of the cast. It just so happen that Vegeta get hit with the worf effect more often than anyone else. I definitely wouldn't say Vegeta deserves that role... at least later on. All the ass whoopings he got from the Namek arc to the Cell arc were more than deserved because he was an absolute bastard during that period, and seem to only exist to make things more difficult for the cast than they needed to be. The Majin Boo arc was the first arc where Vegeta fought for somebody other than himself out of love rather than pride and actually felt guilt for the horrible shit he did. From that point on, his character has mellowed out considerably and has become a good person and quite a decent husband and father.

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Re: Vegeta is a jobber does he rightfully deserve it?

Post by kinisking » Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:02 pm

sintzu wrote:In entire franchise he was the only villain they couldn't defeat, instead it was him not thinking about where Gohan would fall after HE cut off his tail. if he would've moved they would've been done. they survived on luck, nothing more.

In the Freeza arc he was the 2nd strongest "hero" after Goku.

In the Cell arc Gohan couldn't have killed Cell without him distracting him.

In the Buu arc his job was just to hold Kid Buu off Goku and he did that.

In BOG he was the only one to be able to do anything to Beerus, he also surpassed Goku while doing so.

In the RF arc he was the only one who was able to beat down Freeza.

In the Champa arc he got 4 fights in the tournament.

In the manga's Black arc he was the only one who fought Black, making him the arc's main protagonist, something that's never happened before for him or anyone else and Black the 1st villain Goku didn't fight.

Yeah, what a jobber. :lol: :crazy:
Nothing pisses me off more than when people say Gohan couldnt have beat cell without Vegeta without considering Gohan only needed help BECAUSE of Vegeta. Vegeta was just paying back for his fuck up.
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Re: Vegeta is a jobber does he rightfully deserve it?

Post by sintzu » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:56 pm

kinisking wrote:Vegeta was just paying back for his fuck up.
At least he tried to do something, everyone else including his father figure Piccolo ran away and left him to die.
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Re: Vegeta is a jobber does he rightfully deserve it?

Post by Soppa Saia People » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:05 pm

sintzu wrote:In entire franchise he was the only villain they couldn't defeat, instead it was him not thinking about where Gohan would fall after HE cut off his tail. if he would've moved they would've been done. they survived on luck, nothing more.

In the Freeza arc he was the 2nd strongest "hero" after Goku.

In the Cell arc Gohan couldn't have killed Cell without him distracting him.

In the Buu arc his job was just to hold Kid Buu off Goku and he did that.

In BOG he was the only one to be able to do anything to Beerus, he also surpassed Goku while doing so.

In the RF arc he was the only one who was able to beat down Freeza.

In the Champa arc he got 4 fights in the tournament.

In the manga's Black arc he was the only one who fought Black, making him the arc's main protagonist, something that's never happened before for him or anyone else and Black the 1st villain Goku didn't fight.

Yeah, what a jobber. :lol: :crazy:
That's anime only IIRC. Besides, Gohan would have beat Cell on his own if not for Vegeta.
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Re: Vegeta is a jobber does he rightfully deserve it?

Post by sintzu » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:28 pm

Soppa Saia People wrote:That's anime only.
It's in the manga.
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Re: Vegeta is a jobber does he rightfully deserve it?

Post by Soppa Saia People » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:38 pm

sintzu wrote:
Soppa Saia People wrote:That's anime only.
It's in the manga.
What scene are we talking about ? Because I don't think you and I are on the same page.
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Re: Vegeta is a jobber does he rightfully deserve it?

Post by sintzu » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:47 pm

Soppa Saia People wrote:What scene are we talking about ? Because I don't think you and I are on the same page.
Vegeta distracting Cell. That's the part of my quote that's in bold.
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Re: Vegeta is a jobber does he rightfully deserve it?

Post by GigaDrill » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:51 pm

I think his status as a jobber is more than a merciful retribution for all the civilizations he's murdered :p

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Re: Vegeta is a jobber does he rightfully deserve it?

Post by Soppa Saia People » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:23 pm

sintzu wrote:
Soppa Saia People wrote:What scene are we talking about ? Because I don't think you and I are on the same page.
Vegeta distracting Cell. That's the part of my quote that's in bold.
Yeah I'm pretty sure that's anime only. Or maybe Toei added Ten, Yamucha and Kuririn doing it too, in which case, I'm dumb and apologize.
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Re: Vegeta is a jobber does he rightfully deserve it?

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:02 pm

Soppa Saia People wrote:
sintzu wrote:
Soppa Saia People wrote:What scene are we talking about ? Because I don't think you and I are on the same page.
Vegeta distracting Cell. That's the part of my quote that's in bold.
Yeah I'm pretty sure that's anime only. Or maybe Toei added Ten, Yamucha and Kuririn doing it too, in which case, I'm dumb and apologize.
In the manga Vegeta's the only one who distracts Cell.

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Re: Vegeta is a jobber does he rightfully deserve it?

Post by dragonball0900 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:26 pm

Soppa Saia People wrote:
sintzu wrote:
Soppa Saia People wrote:What scene are we talking about ? Because I don't think you and I are on the same page.
Vegeta distracting Cell. That's the part of my quote that's in bold.
Yeah I'm pretty sure that's anime only. Or maybe Toei added Ten, Yamucha and Kuririn doing it too, in which case, I'm dumb and apologize.
In the anime, Piccolo, Krillin, Tien and Yamcha help, with Vegeta distracting Cell. In the manga, Piccolo and the humans didn't arrive, but Vegeta is indeed present there, distracting Cell.

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Re: Vegeta is a jobber does he rightfully deserve it?

Post by Trek405 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:25 pm

I don't mind vegeta losing to hype up a villain and antagonist I just wish they'd do it better. Vegeta losing doesn't even mean anything anymore because it's almost a running gag at this point. He should get good wins against quality opponents and put up good performances when he does lose.

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Re: Vegeta is a jobber does he rightfully deserve it?

Post by sintzu » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:38 pm

Trek405 wrote:I don't mind vegeta losing to hype up a villain and antagonist I just wish they'd do it better. Vegeta losing doesn't even mean anything anymore because it's almost a running gag at this point. He should get good wins against quality opponents and put up good performances when he does lose.
In the Black's manga version he's the only one who fought Black and won twice.
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Re: Vegeta is a jobber does he rightfully deserve it?

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:49 pm

sintzu wrote:
Trek405 wrote:I don't mind vegeta losing to hype up a villain and antagonist I just wish they'd do it better. Vegeta losing doesn't even mean anything anymore because it's almost a running gag at this point. He should get good wins against quality opponents and put up good performances when he does lose.
In the Black's manga version he's the only one who fought Black and won twice.
And I hate that the manga went that route. It lessens Vegeta's actual victories when he can just go and casually defeat Black without any kind of buildup. Vegeta should have never beaten Goku Black in their first encounter in the manga, even if it's for the purpose of Black getting stronger. It really just undermines and undersells the whole cathartic feeling of Vegeta returning stronger to beat him. Why should I care? Vegeta has already defeated Goku Black. Seeing Vegeta beat up Goku Black again means nothing. And it also really devalues Goku Black as a villain.

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Re: Vegeta is a jobber does he rightfully deserve it?

Post by sintzu » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:55 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:It lessens Vegeta's actual victories when he can just go and casually defeat Black without any kind of buildup.

Vegeta should have never beaten Goku Black in their first encounter in the manga, even if it's for the purpose of Black getting stronger.

It really just undermines and undersells the whole cathartic feeling of Vegeta returning stronger to beat him.

And it also really devalues Goku Black as a villain.
The build up is what he did to Trunks and his timeline.

I'd take that over him getting beat from the start only for Goku and Trunks to do everything. even after he "beat" him in the anime, he didn't exactly win like in the manga. he just got back up and made more trouble for them with his clones. Goku also had to step in unlike the manga which gave Vegeta more weight by having in control the whole time.

Black beat Vegeta after that so it doesn't really hurt that.

He's was better written in the anime for sure.
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Re: Vegeta is a jobber does he rightfully deserve it?

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:10 pm

sintzu wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:It lessens Vegeta's actual victories when he can just go and casually defeat Black without any kind of buildup.

Vegeta should have never beaten Goku Black in their first encounter in the manga, even if it's for the purpose of Black getting stronger.

It really just undermines and undersells the whole cathartic feeling of Vegeta returning stronger to beat him.

And it also really devalues Goku Black as a villain.
The build up is what he did to Trunks and his timeline.

I'd take that over him getting beat from the start only for Goku and Trunks to do everything. even after he "beat" him in the anime, he didn't exactly win like in the manga. he just got back up and made more trouble for them with his clones. Goku also had to step in unlike the manga which gave Vegeta more weight by having in control the whole time.

Black beat Vegeta after that so it doesn't really hurt that.

He's was better written in the anime for sure.
No, that's not how build up works. That build up is for Future Trunks to get one over Goku Black, not Vegeta. What's happening in Future Trunks' timeline is ultimately his business to deal with. Not Vegeta's. By that logic, there was build up for Goku too considering Goku Black killed Chi Chi.

Goku and Trunks don't do everything though. They get arses kick by Goku Black and Zamasu just as badly as Vegeta does and just as frequently. Hell, those guy had to go back to main timeline twice because of how bad shit went south. I don't know where this mentality of "Goku and Trunks to do everything" even comes from. It was ultimately a team effort that lead to Goku Black/Zamasu being defeated.

And my point is that Vegeta shouldn't have even touched Goku Black in the first place. And Goku Black certainly shouldn't have gotten the one sided beatdown he did from Vegeta in the first encounter. The damage has been already done by that point. And any potential for creating a "moment" for Vegeta where he recovers and finally defeats Goku Black is dead in the water. We've already seen Vegeta grind Goku Black into the dirt. Why should I/we be invested or interested in seeing it again? It doesn't mean anything. It's already happened.

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