Is "Dragon Ball Minus" canonical?

[cheddarsword]

personaly, it just seems hard to believe for me, because if goku was 3 years old when he landed on earth, you'd think he'd at least be able to speak.

if it's canon, then it's one hell of a retcon.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Canonicity isn't a question that can be answered in any objective sense. Since it isn't addressed by the series or outside source, all tertiary material can be put into a state of both being canon and not canon.

Basically, it only counts if you want it to count.

[floofychan333]

Some elements of it are part of my personal canon, while some aren't. I think Gine is the canon name of Goku's mother but it's fairly obvious Goku came to earth soon after being born and didn't come wearing battle armour.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

It's fairly obvious Goku came to earth soon after being born and didn't come wearing battle armour.

You say it's obvious, but why couldn't it have been? Aside from other tertiary material, there's no reason it couldn't be.

[floofychan333]

It's fairly obvious Goku came to earth soon after being born and didn't come wearing battle armour.

You say it's obvious, but why couldn't it have been? Aside from other tertiary material, there's no reason it couldn't be.

Bardock: The Father of Goku distinctly shows Goku coming to earth soon after birth not wearing anything. He's clearly shown to be a baby not wearing battle armour in all the flashback scenes of him with Grandpa Gohan.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Bardock: The Father of Goku distinctly shows Goku coming to earth soon after birth not wearing anything. He's clearly shown to be a baby not wearing battle armour in all the flashback scenes of him with Grandpa Gohan.

I was hoping you'd say that.

It perfectly demonstrates my point. You have two companion pieces to the original story which tell two contradictory versions of events. Which actually happened? Since there's no official reference to one over the other outside of other tertiary material, it could be either one. Essentially, you pick your own canon.

[cheddarsword]

huh. i thought toriyama had a hand in it or something. or maybe he did, but his involvement in it was about as much as it was in the first broly movie or gt.

so it's one of those things that you can kind of pick and chose with. if it conflicts with something you yourself believe to be, and i'm gonna use quotation marks, "factual", then you yourself can ignore it.

or just throw the whole thing out if you want.

kinda like Episode of Bardock i guess.

do i have the general gist of it?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

huh. i thought toriyama had a hand in it or something.

Toriyama did create Minus. If that implies canonicity to you, consider it canon

so it's one of those things that you can kind of pick and chose with. if it conflicts with something you yourself believe to be, and i'm gonna use quotation marks, "factual", then you yourself can ignore it.

or just throw the whole thing out if you want.

do i have the general gist of it?

Basically, yeah. Some might disagree, but there's no actual basis for a universal canon. Until there is, that's the best we can do.

[cheddarsword]

huh. i thought toriyama had a hand in it or something.

Toriyama did create Minus. If that implies canonicity to you, consider it canon

for me, it would retcon way to much stuff. my main problem with it is that whole 3 year part. the rest of it i'm personaly fine with.

for instance, it would really mess with broly's story and broly's a very important character for me.

[Grimlock]

because if goku was 3 years old when he landed on earth, you'd think he'd at least be able to speak.

No I wouldn't expect a 3-year-old child that spent those three years (or two years and X months) inside an incubator and that was sent to Earth (another months inside a space pod) as soon as he got out to be able to speak.

And yes, Dragon Ball Minus is canon assuming the principle that all Toriyama's works are canon.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

because if goku was 3 years old when he landed on earth, you'd think he'd at least be able to speak.

Actually, there's no indication from Minus signifying that he can't talk. He just doesn't. He was barely shown at all, though, so it's really not surprising.

Dragon Ball Minus is canon assuming the principle that all Toriyama's works are canon.

Not everyone uses that standard, though. That's especially convoluted now as well given the odd state of Dragon Ball Super

[cheddarsword]

because if goku was 3 years old when he landed on earth, you'd think he'd at least be able to speak.

No I wouldn't expect a 3-year-old child that spent those three years (or two years and X months) inside an incubator and that was sent to Earth (another months inside a space pod) as soon as he got out to be able to speak.

And yes, Dragon Ball Minus is canon assuming the principle that all Toriyama's works are canon.

i'd be willing to concede your first point... maybe.

but your second point translates to "word of god is canon", and that just doesn't always work for everyone, especially with retcons like Minus that only serve to complicate the existing story rather than clear up any inconsistencies.

for an example:

many people didn't consider Broly or his movie to be canon. However, by "word of god" logic, toriyama designed broly's character, so the movie by extension could possibly be considered canon.

But dragon ball minus changes parts of that story. In Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan, both Broly and Goku are born on the same day that frieza destroys planet vegeta. However, in minus, goku's 3 years old and broly is only 2 (if i'm not mistaken) so they are no longer the same age, thus changing the long accepted story of the movie.

but to be fair, Bardock: the Father of Goku also does this by stating that Goku was born days before planet vegeta's destruction.

so... which source is canon, considering toriyama had his hands in pretty much all of it?

thus... we have Fanon.

[sintzu]

It's probably canon to Toriyama so when he's writing that's what he's taking into account.

[Cipher]

It's whatever you want it to be.

Obviously it was written two decades after the conclusion of the original manga, so it's not like it can have any effect on its story that you don't invite as a reader.

[Luso Saiyan]

but your second point translates to "word of god is canon", and that just doesn't always work for everyone, especially with retcons like Minus that only serve to complicate the existing story rather than clear up any inconsistencies.

It doesn't complicate anything in the existing story as portrayed in the manga.

for an example:

many people didn't consider Broly or his movie to be canon. However, by "word of god" logic, toriyama designed broly's character, so the movie by extension could possibly be considered canon.

No, that's a false equivalence. And he ony did the design at someone else's request. Not himself for his own story.

[Ozotto]

There is something to be said in regards to continuity when it comes to Dragon Ball Minus.

For myself, I consider the original run of the Japanese manga to be the epitome of Dragon Ball canon.

Everything else falls under it's own continuity based off or spun off the original continuity/ canon.

For myself when I group in Dragon Ball Minus into the original run of the Manga, I look at it as a "New Age Canon" and not the "Original Canon".

The definition of continuity is 'the unbroken and consistent existence or operation of something over a period of time.' Since we have a fairly large break between the original manga run and Dragon Ball Minus, for myself I don't lump it into the epitome of Dragon Ball canon because it broke continuity and therefore flimsy to include in the original canon. Which can be seen with the discrepancies that exist between Minus and the original manga run.

That's just my opinion on canon though, so it's not even a correct statement to take to heart.

In short it's apart of whatever canon you want to take as gospel.

In my opinion though, it is not apart of the original canon, in the purest and strictest sense of the word... but it could be, in a lenient sense of the word.

Clint Eastwood said it best when it comes to opinions.

[Gog]

There is no official canon in the franchise, if you consider Dragon Ball Minus to be canon, than it is canon. If you don't then consider it to be canon than it isn't canon.

[cheddarsword]

There is no official canon in the franchise, if you consider Dragon Ball Minus to be canon, than it is canon. If you don't then consider it to be canon than it isn't canon.

you mean kind of like alternate universe stuff, right?

[Gog]

There is no official canon in the franchise, if you consider Dragon Ball Minus to be canon, than it is canon. If you don't then consider it to be canon than it isn't canon.

you mean kind of like alternate universe stuff, right?

Nope, there is simply no official canon in Dragon Ball. Whatever you want to be canon, is canon.

[cheddarsword]

There is no official canon in the franchise, if you consider Dragon Ball Minus to be canon, than it is canon. If you don't then consider it to be canon than it isn't canon.

you mean kind of like alternate universe stuff, right?

Nope, there is simply no official canon in Dragon Ball. Whatever you want to be canon, is canon.

huh. guess it ties right back into toriyama's lack of consistency at times. which can be both a good thing and a bad thing, depending on how you look at it.

either way, lazorz will be fired! is that stuff dead? oh well, i like it, so it's Lazor Canon to me!

...mr. popo should totaly fire a lazor in DBZA. he was likely the inspiration for lazorface anyway. ...my google sense is tingling...