Is There A Correlation Between Being Evil & Having Greater Ki/Expanded Abilities?

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

theherodjl
I Live Here
Posts: 2217
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:12 pm
Location: The Planes of Lexington

Is There A Correlation Between Being Evil & Having Greater Ki/Expanded Abilities?

Post by theherodjl » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:43 am

Villains in the DB universe all seem to have one thing in common, they always start off stronger or become stronger than the Z-Senshi and then they have to be defeated through a Deux Ex Machina plot point. However I can't but help wonder why it is that DB's villains always seem to have advantages that make our heroes push to find new methods to defeat them,I mean look at this...
DB villains`
Giren(filler deems him a villain), a warrior among his kind having a greater power than most Earthlings do, he also has a lasso gum ability to bind enemies.
General Blue, has above average strength as well as a freeze-telekinetic ability.
Taopaipai, MUCH stronger than the average earthling and even uses a Ki technique, plus he has a amazing ability to throw an object for miles and ride it for greater effect.
Piccolo Daimao, being a manifestation of the Nameless Namek's evil he has incredible strength and a somewhat twisted version of Namekian reproduction as well as having demon classification.
Piccolo(initially), similar deal to his father/original incarnation and also an ability to grow giant, he unexpectedly can reverse the Mafuba too.
DBZ villains
Raditz, being a Saiyan warrior he has considerably greater power than any Earthling until they prepare for Vegeta & Nappa.
Nappa, like Raditz but more powerful and a total brute with large-range Ki attacks, he seems to be able to concentrate his Ki to briefly match someone a bit stronger than him.
Vegeta(initially), a heck of a fighter with an indomitable will to survive getting pelted with pain that would kill most other fighters of a similar strength, can control his Oozaru form too without losing sentience.
Zarbon & Dodoria, two fighters with some of the greatest power among Freeza's minions and Zarbon can transform to become stronger.
The Ginyu Force, Guldo has the ability to stop time briefly and freeze an opponent(s) in place, Burter, Jeice, and Recoome are mutants of their races with much greater power than most other inhabitants, and then Ginyu is the strongest among them with a body change ability.
Freeza, at one point he was the strongest known being in the universe and could transform to reduce his immense strength from spiraling out of control but most of all his ability to survive was completely off the charts, even cut into small pieces he was still alive.
The Androids, somehow Dr. Gero discovered some alternate energy source to power several beings from a mere ordinary human level to being above Freeza and then their power never faltered no longer how long they seemed to fight.
Cell, the result of combining the DNA of already some of the greatest fighters known to Gero but Cell's design proved to be greater then even Gero accounted for, the end result almost destroyed the Z-Senshi & Earth.
Dabura, he was the strongest fighter from the demon realm and rivaled Cell just from such a status alone, he possessed some magical abilities as well.
Majin Boo, being made of pure evil he was at such a level of power that he surpassed Cell in his weakest incarnation and possessed a very convenient level of magical regeneration and matter manipulation.
Zamasu/Black, not only did they surpass the non-god level of Z-Senshi by far but their uncanny abilities only seemed to get better as they got stronger and this was before their fusion that made them as powerful and they were unstable physically and mentally.

While you might argue that many of these abilities may simply be natural to the villains it doesn't explain why they would conveniently appear in order of strength to the Z-Senshi as if their circumstances were meant to meet them and improve the strength of our heroes, that might simply be an out-of-universe example for why Goku and Co need to fight stronger opponents but do you suppose the in-universe answer is that only the most evil fighters get the best abilities until they are defeated somehow by the simple methods of our heroes?
"Why is a raven like a writing desk?" - The Mad Hatter :think:

User avatar
VegettoEX
Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
Posts: 17547
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:10 pm
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Is There A Correlation Between Being Evil & Having Greater Ki/Expanded Abilities?

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:21 am

We've only had one instance of an actual, literal deus ex machina: Zen'o erasing things in the Future Trunks arc of Dragon Ball Super. A god had to appear from nowhere to handle things. That's what a deus ex machina is :). (And even that was totally telegraphed way earlier on, so it wasn't completely random...)

So the heart of the question is: why are the villains so strong? I mean, you don't have a particularly compelling story to tell if you don't have strong villains. If the villains are weak, you don't have anything worth weaving into a long-form story; look to the 2008 Jump Super Anime Tour Special as a prime example of this. The villains were nowhere near as strong as the actual heroes, so it was reduced down to a kids game that could have been stopped at any time. That's super fun, and it's great to see every once in a while, but that can't work as a longer story arc in an on-going children's series.

(You can do it, but then you'd have to go the deconstruction route like One-Punch Man. You can also do it if every single chapter is its own stand-alone story a la Dr. Slump, but even THAT had to evolve into proper tournaments and super-villains later on.)

Taking things back in-universe and a little more philosophical, you could attribute it to what is so wonderfully explained in a great quote: "Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely." We saw this again and again in the series, with villains gaining more power and becoming exponentially more dangerous not just from a raw power standpoint but from an unpredictability standpoint, and they likely became villains in the first place because of this growing power. Kame-sen'nin took things into his own hands at the 21st Tenka'ichi Budokai because he knew the kids had to learn their place in the world. Friends and foes alike have commented on just how dangerous and frightening Goku's continuous power growth is.

We've also had the series tell us over and over again how power naturally attracts other power. Goku is a magnet for this stuff; he wants to challenge other people at his level and beyond, while people his level and beyond simultaneously also want to challenge him. They seek each other out. Their powers and abilities inherently lead them to each other. While Goku could easily handle day-to-day superhero work if he wanted (bank robbers, kidnappers, etc.), that's not what his heart truly desires; Gohan and Kuririn seem to have that handled.

It's all about arrogance and testing limits, something the series has had in the background since the very first story arc, hidden among the poop jokes.
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::

SkuLLR3D
Newbie
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:42 pm

Re: Is There A Correlation Between Being Evil & Having Greater Ki/Expanded Abilities?

Post by SkuLLR3D » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:03 pm

[/quote]We've also had the series tell us over and over again how power naturally attracts other power. Goku is a magnet for this stuff; he wants to challenge other people at his level and beyond, while people his level and beyond simultaneously also want to challenge him. They seek each other out. Their powers and abilities inherently lead them to each other. While Goku could easily handle day-to-day superhero work if he wanted (bank robbers, kidnappers, etc.), that's not what his heart truly desires; Gohan and Kuririn seem to have that handled.[/quote]

This is exactly why goku chose to stay dead after the cell arc

cheddarsword
Regular
Posts: 746
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:59 am

Re: Is There A Correlation Between Being Evil & Having Greater Ki/Expanded Abilities?

Post by cheddarsword » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:52 am

VegettoEX wrote:We've only had one instance of an actual, literal deus ex machina: Zen'o erasing things in the Future Trunks arc of Dragon Ball Super. A god had to appear from nowhere to handle things. That's what a deus ex machina is :). (And even that was totally telegraphed way earlier on, so it wasn't completely random...)
If I may:
Merriam-Webster Dictionary wrote:The New Latin term deus ex machina is a translation of a Greek phrase and means literally "a god from a machine." "Machine," in this case, refers to the crane that held a god over the stage in ancient Greek and Roman drama.
Although, since he was called in with the press of a button, I guess you're right.

theherodjl
I Live Here
Posts: 2217
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:12 pm
Location: The Planes of Lexington

Re: Is There A Correlation Between Being Evil & Having Greater Ki/Expanded Abilities?

Post by theherodjl » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:48 am

VegettoEX wrote:It's all about arrogance and testing limits, something the series has had in the background since the very first story arc, hidden among the poop jokes.
It's just strange to me that the villains arrive in order of strength just so Goku can test his limits enough to overcome them and be ready for what comes next, I'm aware that if Freeza appeared anytime before the trip to Namek then the Earth would be doomed but I think the issue with that is was Freeza only that strong because he was destined to fight a Super Saiyan and/or eventually a Super Saiyan Blue?
I'm just trying to get an in-universe explanation as to why villain A appears to fight hero but fails so then villain B steps up to the plate repeating the result of his predecessor and then villain C and so on and so forth.
Does their power stem from their evil which may be the result of destiny/fate?
"Why is a raven like a writing desk?" - The Mad Hatter :think:

User avatar
emperior
I Live Here
Posts: 4322
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:52 pm
Location: Dragon World
Contact:

Re: Is There A Correlation Between Being Evil & Having Greater Ki/Expanded Abilities?

Post by emperior » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:30 am

theherodjl wrote:
VegettoEX wrote:It's all about arrogance and testing limits, something the series has had in the background since the very first story arc, hidden among the poop jokes.
It's just strange to me that the villains arrive in order of strength just so Goku can test his limits enough to overcome them and be ready for what comes next, I'm aware that if Freeza appeared anytime before the trip to Namek then the Earth would be doomed but I think the issue with that is was Freeza only that strong because he was destined to fight a Super Saiyan and/or eventually a Super Saiyan Blue?
I'm just trying to get an in-universe explanation as to why villain A appears to fight hero but fails so then villain B steps up to the plate repeating the result of his predecessor and then villain C and so on and so forth.
Does their power stem from their evil which may be the result of destiny/fate?
There 's not really an in-universe explanation, the only thing we know is that Goku always manages to find a way to overcame any enemy or at the very least befriend them/turn them into good people.
Future Trunks' timeline is the example of what happens if Goku is not there, and Beerus is the example of the villain who is so much powerful not even Goku can manage a way to beat, though he got "infected" by Goku and decided to spare the Earth.

I also believe the way the series introduced new enemies was done in a smart/reasonable way, except for Golden Freezer whose revival was just a short fanservicey story that might have never happened as well.
悟 “Vincit qui se vincit”

What I consider canonical

User avatar
ekrolo2
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7865
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:27 am
Location: Split, Croatia

Re: Is There A Correlation Between Being Evil & Having Greater Ki/Expanded Abilities?

Post by ekrolo2 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:43 am

Pretty much everyone with any power ranges from being selfish to downright malicious to wholly uncaring in the DBverse while anyone classically good or righteous is either a punching bag of fate, completely incompetent or too weak to do anything.

Yes, I know about the Pride Troopers but they've had like 2 episodes of screen time and I don't doubt they're gonna be revealed to be fucked up in some way too.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):

Post Reply