Theory: Gohan lost his "Mystic" form when he died in the Buu saga

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

Son_Gohan
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1121
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:14 pm

Re: Theory: Gohan lost his "Mystic" form when he died in the Buu saga

Post by Son_Gohan » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:31 pm

cheddarsword wrote:
miguelnuva1 wrote:
Ultimate isn't an official term either other than the American video games last I checked.
And since the video games are the only form of licensed media to use the term
The guidebook, DB Extreme Battle Collection: Round 02, uses the term "Ultimate" / アルティメット as well:

Image

cheddarsword
Regular
Posts: 746
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:59 am

Re: Theory: Gohan lost his "Mystic" form when he died in the Buu saga

Post by cheddarsword » Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:33 am

Son_Gohan wrote:
cheddarsword wrote:
miguelnuva1 wrote:
Ultimate isn't an official term either other than the American video games last I checked.
And since the video games are the only form of licensed media to use the term
The guidebook, DB Extreme Battle Collection: Round 02, uses the term "Ultimate" / アルティメット as well:

Image
Meh. Didn't know about other media outlets using the term. :P

precita
Banned
Posts: 6037
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:10 pm

Re: Theory: Gohan lost his "Mystic" form when he died in the Buu saga

Post by precita » Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:00 am

Well I guess now we can say Gohan just forgot how to power up to it? When Freeza came to Earth and during the exhibition matches he was likely fighting at SSJ2 level again.

User avatar
Jinzoningen MULE
I Live Here
Posts: 4405
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:33 pm
Location: Salt Mines

Re: Theory: Gohan lost his "Mystic" form when he died in the Buu saga

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:15 am

precita wrote:Well I guess now we can say Gohan just forgot how to power up to it? When Freeza came to Earth and during the exhibition matches he was likely fighting at SSJ2 level again.
It doesn't even seem that he forgot. More like he just... didn't. Granted, he was never in a situation where it would have accomplished much in retrospect, but the latest episode kinda did a shit job at reintroducing it, and actually lines up pretty well with a joke prediction I made a couple of months back.
Retired.

User avatar
Saturnine
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1515
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:45 am

Re: Theory: Gohan lost his "Mystic" form when he died in the Buu saga

Post by Saturnine » Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:26 am

nickzambuto wrote:
Saturnine wrote:Nothing really indicated that he stopped being Mythical after he died, I'm not really inclined to believe that.
If anything is funnier than calling him Mystic Gohan, it's Mythical Gohan.
Hahaha I know right? :D

cheddarsword
Regular
Posts: 746
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:59 am

Re: Theory: Gohan lost his "Mystic" form when he died in the Buu saga

Post by cheddarsword » Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:55 am

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
precita wrote:Well I guess now we can say Gohan just forgot how to power up to it? When Freeza came to Earth and during the exhibition matches he was likely fighting at SSJ2 level again.
It doesn't even seem that he forgot. More like he just... didn't. Granted, he was never in a situation where it would have accomplished much in retrospect, but the latest episode kinda did a shit job at reintroducing it, and actually lines up pretty well with a joke prediction I made a couple of months back.
Yeah they really could have done better here. Well, maybe the manga will get it right. Eventually...

At any rate, at least he still has access to the form.

But with the way he entered it, it almost makes me want to call it Super Saiyan Black rather than Ultimate. The cropped hair doesn't help matters.

And then Piccolo just HAD to mention gaining more power... so to put it into Tien's terms: Ultra Ultimate? Mega Ultimate? Maximum Over Ultimate?

User avatar
GigaDrill
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:46 pm

Re: Theory: Gohan lost his "Mystic" form when he died in the Buu saga

Post by GigaDrill » Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:02 am

cheddarsword wrote:
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
precita wrote:Well I guess now we can say Gohan just forgot how to power up to it? When Freeza came to Earth and during the exhibition matches he was likely fighting at SSJ2 level again.
It doesn't even seem that he forgot. More like he just... didn't. Granted, he was never in a situation where it would have accomplished much in retrospect, but the latest episode kinda did a shit job at reintroducing it, and actually lines up pretty well with a joke prediction I made a couple of months back.
Yeah they really could have done better here. Well, maybe the manga will get it right. Eventually...

At any rate, at least he still has access to the form.

But with the way he entered it, it almost makes me want to call it Super Saiyan Black rather than Ultimate. The cropped hair doesn't help matters.

And then Piccolo just HAD to mention gaining more power... so to put it into Tien's terms: Ultra Ultimate? Mega Ultimate? Maximum Over Ultimate?
Naturally leading into Ultimate Form 2 of course

User avatar
Saturnine
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1515
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:45 am

Re: Theory: Gohan lost his "Mystic" form when he died in the Buu saga

Post by Saturnine » Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:23 am

Kaboom wrote:Super isn't really doing anything different than what practically every Toei-heralded project has always done... Contrary to how the manga portrayed it as a permanent change, the animated stuff has treated "Ultimate" like a transformation for Gohan ever since Z movie 13. GT's the only thing that didn't do it that way, and oddly thus fit best with what the manga showed.
Yeah, kinda like how Saiyan beyond God was supposed to be the new permanent base state. They dropped that concept just as quickly, creating the whole debate about two bases.

cheddarsword
Regular
Posts: 746
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:59 am

Re: Theory: Gohan lost his "Mystic" form when he died in the Buu saga

Post by cheddarsword » Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:36 am

GigaDrill wrote:
cheddarsword wrote:
Jinzoningen MULE wrote: It doesn't even seem that he forgot. More like he just... didn't. Granted, he was never in a situation where it would have accomplished much in retrospect, but the latest episode kinda did a shit job at reintroducing it, and actually lines up pretty well with a joke prediction I made a couple of months back.
Yeah they really could have done better here. Well, maybe the manga will get it right. Eventually...

At any rate, at least he still has access to the form.

But with the way he entered it, it almost makes me want to call it Super Saiyan Black rather than Ultimate. The cropped hair doesn't help matters.

And then Piccolo just HAD to mention gaining more power... so to put it into Tien's terms: Ultra Ultimate? Mega Ultimate? Maximum Over Ultimate?
Naturally leading into Ultimate Form 2 of course
Ultimate Gohan Grade 2... Oy... just what we need...

User avatar
Grimlock
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8253
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Cybertron.

Re: Theory: Gohan lost his "Mystic" form when he died in the Buu saga

Post by Grimlock » Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:46 pm

precita wrote:Well I guess now we can say Gohan just forgot how to power up to it?
No, because in order to transform into the Ultimate, Gohan needs to power up just like going Super Saiyan. That's precisely what Ro Kaioshin said. So if Gohan can power up to Super Saiyan, he can't forget how to power up to Ultimate, if it is the same way.
Son_Gohan wrote:The guidebook, DB Extreme Battle Collection: Round 02, uses the term "Ultimate" / アルティメット as well
Dragon Ball Heroes also uses that term.
We help! ... Hmm. Always get Autobots out of messes they get into.

~ Day of the Machines ~

User avatar
PerhapsTheOtherOne
I Live Here
Posts: 2661
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:55 pm

Re: Theory: Gohan lost his "Mystic" form when he died in the Buu saga

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:13 pm

Geekdom101 weighs in on the Ultimate Gohan debate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy9Q7SzyyA4

But basically, because Gohan was rusty and his heart wasn't that of a warrior's, he couldn't tap into his Ultimate power.
Last edited by PerhapsTheOtherOne on Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Kamiccolo9
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10353
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:32 pm
Location: Regensburg, Germany

Re: Theory: Gohan lost his "Mystic" form when he died in the Buu saga

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:25 pm

Oddly enough, this topic was my very first post when I joined back in ye olden days of 2013.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22282&p=608673#p608673

My, how time flies.
Champion of the 1st Kanzenshuu Short Story Tenkaichi Budokai
Kamiccolo9's Kompendium of Short Stories
Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:
Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"

cheddarsword
Regular
Posts: 746
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:59 am

Re: Theory: Gohan lost his "Mystic" form when he died in the Buu saga

Post by cheddarsword » Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:28 pm

Grimlock wrote:
precita wrote:Well I guess now we can say Gohan just forgot how to power up to it?
No, because in order to transform into the Ultimate, Gohan needs to power up just like going Super Saiyan. That's precisely what Ro Kaioshin said. So if Gohan can power up to Super Saiyan, he can't forget how to power up to Ultimate, if it is the same way.
Son_Gohan wrote:The guidebook, DB Extreme Battle Collection: Round 02, uses the term "Ultimate" / アルティメット as well
Dragon Ball Heroes also uses that term.
Considering that Gohan isn't a true fighter and has, for the most part, preferred not to fight, I would suggest that perhaps he inadvertently created a mental block that prevented him from accessing that power. Think about it. He changed when he had it before. Maybe it scared him. Maybe he didn't like what he thought he would become if he gave into that again.

Piccolo states that he got drunk on that power. The same could be said when he went SS2 against Cell.

Every time he gets a power boost, his personality changes. That may be enough to make him afraid of it.

Post Reply