A Different Take on SSB, SS, and God Power

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

So, I'm sure most folks around here know about the divisiveness that surrounds "Two-Base Theory", the idea that Goku and Vegeta separately infuse god-power into their being that gives them a base form with SSG's power that's separate from their normal power, or at least that's how it should be according to proponents.

People have also brought up how doing this and transforming into a SS is how SSB comes about, and how regular SS forms still exist nowadays.

As a staunch detractor of the theory, I'm gonna give a different direction to explain some things.

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Basically, this whole thread revolves around a little thing introduced in Dragon Ball Super's anime adaptation of the RoF story known as "not letting Ki leak out". We see that Whis teaches Goku and Vegeta this method as a way to improve their strength. When the two Saiyans do so and clash fists, they experience what's implied to be what will become SSB, "a SS who is Saiyan with the power of SSG", as the series has explained the form to be.

Two-Base Theory proponents have often brought this tidbit, along with irrelevant evidence like a pamphlet for the original movie, to try and "prove" the theory after the original SS forms returned in the Universe 6/7 Tournament, believing that, by definition, the theory must exist for SSB and SS(2/3) to coexist.

I don't believe this is the case. Constant mention has been made to Goku's and Vegeta's SSG power being made their own power, and if the above were true, then by definition, Goku and Vegeta should've been able to turn SSB much earlier. However, references to the original SS form have been made, like with the Oracle Fish mentioning it to Whis, or Freeza mentioning it.

So, what's the deal, then?

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I pointed out "not letting Ki leak out" for a reason. I think the anime made a distinction that, intentionally or not, provides a possible explanation for the supposed inconsistencies.

Given the examples of SS being referred to whilst Goku and Vegeta did indeed have the power of SSG made all their own, it couldn't be that SSB is simply such a Saiyan turning SS, lest they would've been able to do it earlier. However, we get strong implications that learning how not to let their Ki leak out was important to them learning to transform into SSB. How, though, is the question. Now we're going to get into the really speculative stuff.

I theorize that when Goku and Vegeta prevent their Ki from leaking out in SS form, the golden-haired transformation transitions into the blue-haired God-Ki version, which is several times stronger. My belief is that their regular base and SS2/3 forms can't hold all of SSG's power, and so cannot make proper use of it, explaining why they aren't god-level normally. Perhaps SS is the perfect form for holding SSG's power, thus when none of their Ki, their god-power made their own, leaks out, the form ascends beyond SSG into SSB.

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So there we have it. Goku and Vegeta possess god-power in all forms, but can only use it to reach godly levels by not letting it leak out in the SS form.

Please tell me what you guys think, and PLEASE keep it civil and constructive.

[LowRyder2005]

In the anime I see it as something that could more or less work. Granted, when addressing Super you'd still have to carefully tip-toe around the wonky power-scaling and inconsistent feats, but one would be hard-pressed to find any rationalization that goes unscathed when trying to give Super's paper-thin writing a guise of something even remotely appealing. When referencing the "Revival of F" movie specifically and especially when trying to address the infamous pamphlet as well, the explanation falls kind of short.

Getting more in-depth, if again you absolutely wanted to try and reconcile it with what the "Revival of F" movie pamphlet stated, your explanation works logically if you think the property of possessing "stable ki control" happened to be the determinant factor in making a regular Saiyan a "god-like Saiyan". According to whoever wrote the pamphlet, that is. Otherwise, well, I just don't see how it's supposed to. That being clarified, there are actually many, many different angles under which you may cast doubt on the article's words - even through semantics and not the more sensible out-of-universe explanation, if it's your preferred approach (looking at you, ever-so-slightly ambiguous "giving birth" part!) and if one deemed it compulsory.

Now, if one wanted to be realistic, it's almost certain that the pamphlet wanted to present the Super Saiyan forms we knew and loved as something which had been directly superseded by something else in the case of Goku and Vegeta.
Without indulging in more contrived explanations, it appears very likely that Super Saiyan Blue was meant to become an "evolution" of the sort of the regular Super Saiyan through (probably) rigorous training; most certainly, though, it was at least supposed to be a no going back scenario. Meaning: Goku had become a fully-fledged "god-like Saiyan" or a direct equivalent of the "Super Saiyan God" possibly some time after his battle with Beerus. His "Super Saiyan" had in turn evolved into the mighty "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan". That's in all likelihood all there is to it. No one needs to be remembered that the movie predates the unexpected (and "unexpected" for a reason) return of the golden forms in the Universe 6 Arc; hence it was most likely written with that in mind.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I know, it's mainly an out-of-universe change in narrative approach.

However, I'm trying to come up with an in-universe explanation that doesn't magic up some unseen level of power that's arbitrarily used or not used in specific instances for whatever reasons, as well as make use of things that have been explicitly claimed in the series itself.

I'm proud of this theory of mine in particular because it makes use of what stuff was added to the anime adaptation of the RoF movie along with not creating different levels of power for different instances.

[Bulma's Foot Masseur]

I reject the two-base theory on a surface-level because it invalidates Vegeta's training with Whis. Goku entertained the thought of Vegeta being even stronger than he was after arriving on Beerus' Planet, when Vegeta was just then learning to sense God ki, and we're supposed to believe all that post-Buu saga power development was confined to what's essentially a separate form? Yeah, I don't think so. (This is before Goku and Vegeta even really learned to keep their ki from leaking out.)

[Desassina]

Let's go further back into Battle of Gods: Goku tapped into power that was beyond anything that he could have reached on his own. He did so when dropping out of SSJG, and he transformed into SSJ without going Blue, which means that he hadn't reached the threshold to become one. Beerus put Goku with all of his SSJG power in SSJ form, but I prefer to draw from the movie where Goku used 80% of it, with the remainder allowing him to put out Beerus' attack. The latter could have been his room for growth until he accessed the God power in him to become SSJB. I'm obviously drawing from all sources of ideas with regards to this matter, but the core is that when Goku uses SSJB, his base extends to admit power beyond the mortal limits.

[Triggered Vegeta]

Base Goku = Base Gohan who is <<< Piccolo who is <<< Z Ultimate Gohan. There's definitely something up. In Ep 42, 45 & 24 Goku is shown with a White/Milky aura.. I see that as SBG... while in the fight with Roshi, his aura looks nothing kike in RoF.... There's just no way Goku can clobber SS3 Gotenks, yet be = to Base Gohan who is <<<< Z Ultimate Gohan. I think Toei brings back the strong base from time to time, they're not always using full power base.

[Desassina]

How about this:
- Goku and Vegeta have a hard time suppressing their power in battle;
- they use transformations of old to lock the power between thresholds.

It goes along with the Saiyans' nature to fight and increase their battle power. Since Goku and Vegeta are now beyond SSJ3, they would have to make an effort to keep it on a human level, until the situation calls for the full extent of their power. Only their willingness to transform would bring them to SSJB.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

How about this:
- Goku and Vegeta have a hard time suppressing their power in battle;
- they use transformations of old to lock the power between thresholds.

It goes along with the Saiyans' nature to fight and increase their battle power. Since Goku and Vegeta are now beyond SSJ3, they would have to make an effort to keep it on a human level, until the situation calls for the full extent of their power. Only their willingness to transform would bring them to SSJB.

I can buy parts of it.

For example, maybe transforming into some form of SS is easier to do for a quick power-up than trying to use one's full base power, like when Goku had to quickly power-up to avoid being ringed out by Krillin's attacks a few episodes ago. When they can take their time to power up to fight opponents, that might explain instances of where they fight much stronger opponents in base form, like when Copy-Vegeta fought SS3 Gotenks.

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As for the theory I came up with, I tried to not downplay how strong Goku and Vegeta have gotten too much whilst also making it low enough for other characters like Gohan and Piccolo to catch up. Luckily, Ki Leakage Prevention proved to be a useful concept introduced in the anime to explain things.

In fact, I recall that something similar to it recently appeared in the latest manga chapter, which is used to explain SSB outputting "100% power". My idea is basically the same, except that this Ki leakage prevention is done in the SS form to make use of a Saiyan's SSG power, transforming the original form into the "100% power SSB" of the manga, which is just the regular SSB form in the anime, seeing as how it's said to have good enough Ki control to be used in conjunction with Kaio-ken.